He becomes aware of the link in Gathering Storm if not sooner.

Not sure if the link caused anyone to have plans.

 

By the way, Semirhage was the one that caused the broken arm.

I meant they might've created the link with Rand on purpose so they could have more influence over him.

I just hate the implication that that was totally luck or the will of the pattern. The DO and Moridin had nothing to do with it.

Is Moridin aware of the link with Rand and did he plan on it? Or if he isn't then did the Dark One plan on it?

I ask because if the most effective means of driving Rand over the edge turns out to be caused by pure luck then I'm going to saw my own arm off

I like everything more on a second readthrough. I know the characters I like, I know how to look at the characters I hate to where I can tolerate them, I know what scenes I like and what I don't like about the scenes that I don't. And all in all it just feels more pleasant when I'm not worrying about how they're going to make a Forsaken look stupid.

I hate surprises and RAFO. I can count the times I've been pleasantly surprised by a revelation that's happened in a film or book on one hand. and only one of those is from WOT (Rand being captured in book 6)

I'm mostly worried about the villains.

Depending on who I ask. Demandred in the last book is either really awesome and the one who most lives up to his rep, or completely lame. Which is weird. It's like polar opposites talking out two different books

People seem to spend every waking moment complaining about the final three books.

Is there ANY reason to read them? Would I be stupid if I prefered Sanderson's writing style to Jordan's?

"You're Aes Sedai," Mat said, shrugging. "I figured you . . . you know, saidared it."

 I don't care. I think that's a great line. And why wouldn't someone like Mat say that?

Saidar should totally become a verb.

I kinda feel stupid reading these books. Because with all the forshadowing and stuff it feels like I'm not allowed to read these books for fun or leisure, else I'll miss all the HIDDEN meanings.

 

Why don't these people go off and do things that they're actually good at?

 

Who made Aginor a spy? Why make the man with an uncontrollable temper a spy? Why would the weak master spy fight in an open battle?  Why make the goddamn SADISTIC MASTER OF TORTURE A SPY TO A YOUNG WOMAN?

 

Does NO VILLAIN in this story play to their strengths!?

 

Semirhage was a savant at Healing. Her skill at manipulating the human body and her morbid curiosity gave rise to other indulgences . . . Not all of the Forsaken had very applicable talents. Aginor was essentially without skills when thrown into a relatively primitive society. Asmodean's talent and interest was composing music. Balthamel was a historian and known womanizer. Graendal was essentially a first class psychologist/psychiatrist and renowned philanthropist whose developed a talent for compulsion. Mesaana was a decent administrator who coveted a research position. Ishamael was a philosopher and theologian. Moghedien was a spy/informant (she typically didn't throw herself into battle, that was once, and against a "primitive" with a block. It's not like she ran around seeking confrontation by force). A few distinguished themselves as generals and as governors of territories during the War of Power.

 

I think the point is that these guys were certainly evil, but it's not like they dedicated their lives to single combat and war or to things that would be useful to being a bad guy. It's perhaps a bit more realistic, though I agree that it seems underhwelming, at least with how Jordan handles it. There's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes and when it's finally revealed you've absorbed and lost so much information you don't connect the dots about who did what and when. 

 

But none of the forsaken come off as stupid. They don't seem to get by PURELY via their power. As you mentioned, they do a lot of work behind the scenes and are capable of showing ingenuity and impressive planning.

The problem is that Jordan never bothers to let us see this on page. The Forsaken seem to act markedly dumber on page. Or we're only ever shown the Forsaken during scenes where they're being tortured or enraged or beaten or mirred by dramatic irony. The competence of one's villains should not be applicable only if you analyze teh text. I don't need to study the text to see that Cadsuane is smart. It's spelled out. Front and centre. You can't miss it. So why should I need to for someone like Semirhage?

Actually, what's Lanfear's skillset? I know she's the strongest female chaneler in the world (was anyway) but aside from raw power and knowledge of Lews, what did she bring to the Shadow's table?

Why don't these people go off and do things that they're actually good at?

Who made Aginor a spy? Why make the man with an uncontrollable temper a spy? Why would the weak master spy fight in an open battle?  Why make the goddamn SADISTIC MASTER OF TORTURE A SPY TO A YOUNG WOMAN?

Does NO VILLAIN in this story play to their strengths!?

What IS Balthamel's skillset?

I ask because, it really does seem like, for a group of supposed master manipulators and spies, some of the Forsaken are AWFUL at keeping their emotions masked while working.

Look at Balthamel, he was openly angry at Egwene just because she didn't want his help with her headaches? Yes, I get why he'd be frustrated and angry but he was in the middle of his act and he openly showed anger. Dude, your cover?

It's mentioned that people are afraid of even the female power. Why? I get why Saidin is feared. But what about Saidar. Surely the fact that the WT isn't full of nutcases is testament enough to the fact that the power alone isn't evil or wrong.

I just don't think you'd ever see an aes sedai just loitering in a local tavern having a few brewskis and chilling without acting all authoritative and bossy all the time is all.

An aes sedai you could just walk up to and be friendly with without them pulling any kind of manipulation or subterfuge whatsoever

Why would anyone want to be Aes Sedai?

You get to become cold, calculating, a jerk, a manipulator, feared by everyone, segregated from the rest of society in one manner or another. You get to lose all of your friends and only make new ones in order to use them callously. You get to become condescending and detatched.

Does this really sound appealing?

I say boring because it's a reiteration of the same thing over and over again. Nothing new is said whenever it happens. I get it, windfinders and wise ones are just as strongheaded as aes sedai. Yes, aes sedai do not know everything. Move on.

Crossroads of Twilight. The last awesome thing I remember an aes sedai who isn't Egwene or Caduane (blech) doing was calling Rand out on his crap when he yelled at them

Does the continued... prolonged... boring... endless... repetitive... nausea inducing...tooth grindingly irritating humiliation of the Aes Sedai EVER... EVER end? How long has it been going on now, at least 4 books! In my weaker moments, it kinda makes me wanna quit the series. it really does

I just can't stand straw men in any way. I don't think RJ is immune to this concept (coughTheProphetcough) but it's what killed any interest I had in the SoT series before I even picked it up. The descriptions my friends gave of it near enough made me sick

You'd think the Darkfriends would be better at hiding their true personalities.

I mean, it's established that anyone can be a darkfriend, yet all the notable ones are absolute jerks even prior to the reveal. The only ones I recall who weren't were the Shienarian one in TGH and Mat's Aiel girlfriend

Is Elayne aware that the commander of her bodyguards is a Darkfriend? (is on Crossroads of Twilight)

but there are farmers in other areas of randland. What makes these ones special?

Was it ever foreshadowed in any of the books before book 4 that every Two Rivers man is a brilliant markman? Because I knew the 3 leads were, but I just assumed that was because they were the leads.

Isn't it kind of a runnng theme that even when the female heirarchy is specifically mentioned NOT to be based on power levels or abilities they still kind of are anyway?

she acted, and made Perrin act, the way that the Two Rivers folk wanted them both to act,

random note

This here is a real personal issue of mine. This whole concept in Perrin's arc that Perrin NEEDS to act the way the Two Rivers people want him to act is, in my opinion, utterly monstrous and unforgivable on the part of the Two Rivers folk. It almost makes me wish Perrin had left them to die. Some might say they deserve a good stew in a trolloc cookpot If they're going to be so obnoxiously unwilling to notice that he doesn't WANT to be a lord and clearly doesn't like the whole lord lifestyle. (speaking this especially to the people who he grew up with) It also clashes rather roughly with the concept permeating the rest of the series that farmers and smaller townsfolk don't care one iota about who rules over them as long as it doesn't effect their own lives.

It keeps trying so hard to shove it down our throuts that Faile's viewpoint is right. and if it is, it makes all the people of Two Rivers completely unsympathetic if they're willing to ignore how uncomfortable and awful and distancing the whole thing is for Perrin.

Yes, I know Ta'veren-ness is contriving to make Perrin great in some way., but with Mat and Rand this process actually makes sense. It's throwing these characters into situations where they're gaining control over people who have these intricate systems of intrigue and political maneuvering. Or who have long standing customs built to allow them to move into (like Rand and the Aiel). Or they have armies that he earned in battle (like Mat and the Band)

Perrin is... among friends. He's among people he's known all his life. Who should know him. And expansion or no, the Two Rivers acting in such a callous way to one of it's own feels contrived beyond even what the pattern can do. If the Two Rivers folk acted more like, say, the maidens or the clan chiefs act towards Rand, where the fact that he's their leader means barely anything to them outside of an immediate danger situation would've made INFINITELY more sense to me

Wow, that was a tangent

I'm just on the part where The Two Rivers men are cold and hateful towards Perrin because he's lost her. They know Perrin. Why on earth would they believe rumors that he's unfaithful?

Why do people like Faile?

in the books I mean. Abusive, abrasive, patronizing, manipulative. Yet everyone seems to like her who aren't rivals or villains. and Perrin for some reason loves her. To the point of not ever shutting up about it.