[Basic] I <3 the 90's Mafia: Music Edition - TOWN WINS!

[wish-tree]

And if people would sign my petition for DM to adopt a quote and mentions notification system, that would make things a whoooooole lot easier :D

consider it done, but where's the petition

[Lizabeth]

 

 

Lol.

 

I wont tdome you though. I just want to make my stance clear.

So you wont let me prove you wrong?

Im not wrong. Ill respond to my town core like usual.

 

Sili, we have two days. We've had two mislynches.

[Lizabeth]

Lenlo still treating me like town but at least he voted this time.

Yeah, but you, Zander, and Seph have all done that this game, so I wouldn't put much stock in that tell...

[wish-tree]

Lenlo.

 

Sili.

 

Is it even worth reading your argument against each other to see what the case is? Which parts of it are hogwash and just emotional reasons, and which parts are actual reasons?

[Lizabeth]

Okay

 

Lenlo isoooooooooooooo time

 

before I deep dive, Sili, give me the case on him again?

 

Liz, what's your case?

 

Chris, you were defending Lenlo, right? Besides the explanation of how he moved from scum reading me to not willing to vote me over seph, what else did you find towny?

 

 

RT...DT

[wish-tree]

 

Okay

 

Lenlo isoooooooooooooo time

 

before I deep dive, Sili, give me the case on him again?

 

Liz, what's your case?

 

Chris, you were defending Lenlo, right? Besides the explanation of how he moved from scum reading me to not willing to vote me over seph, what else did you find towny?

 

 

RT...DT

 

*tilted*

 

*tilted beyond oblivion*

 

*headbangs*

 

*smashes the wall*

[wish-tree]

this is not funny

 

T.T

[Lizabeth]

Heres my question: What does that matter? Does me saying he was lying, which he was, mean anything? Am I throwing shade on a dead man? Oh no, lets lynch the person whose already dead! Hes so wolfy cause Len threw shade on him! Oh nooooooo!

And again, you apparently dont even know what it is I caught him lying about. So how can you possibly have this discussion when you dont even know what its predicated on?

 

As for Sili, I suspected him for awhile. Bounced between whether or not it was my frustration or because he was actually wolfy. Not once did I say "Sili is town", so its hardly out of left field for me to vote him. His reasoning is once again crap btw, but he refuses to share it.

 

 

Lenlo still treating me like town but at least he voted this time.

What? Are you saying I cant be civil and want to talk about things with someone I think is a wolf? I have to be 100% hostile, throw them in a hole and tell them to stfu, just because I think they arnt town? How in gods name do you find their teammates if you dont talk to them, read what they are saying? No im not treating you like your town. Im treating you like your a human being with a working cerebellum. Maybe I shouldnt though.

 

What matters was exactly the word that you picked up on from my response to you - "narrative".

 

If you are town and now know that Dice was town, why would you refer to him as "lying" about you rather than making a mistake?

 

But if you're mafia and you're now having to fight off why Dice's suspicions of you being mafia were false, using the word "lying" sounds like a mindset slip - like you're carrying forward a narrative you came up with on the day before to help get Dice lynched.

 

So then you telling me that "mistaken" and "lying" are the same thing, then saying they're not the same thing...

 

And then there's the part where you've been relatively calm, cool, and collected for most of the game (especially D2) but now all of a sudden you're reacting strongly when I call you out on wording and Sili is pushing you at the same time.

[Lizabeth]

 

Lenlo, is your case on Sili because of the 'crap reasoning' he's given for you being a wolf?

This entire game his reasoning has been questionable at best. All hes really done is call me wolf, tell me to shut up cause im a wolf, then get onto people for lynching townies, without ever really fighting to defend anyone. There was no real opposition to the Dice lynch even though he was supposedly town telling. Same with Seph. The most active ive seen him this game is when hes attacking me.

 

I dont really think hes a wolf. Just not town. He has more SK equity then wolf equity to me.

 

I don't remember Sili doing that before today, though.

[Lizabeth]

I dont need to

Okay, now this isn't helpful

 

Just give him the damn quote if it proves your case.

[Lenlo]

I dont think youve been paying very good attention to me most of the game then. I was "Calm cool and collected" D2 because, frankly, I wasnt around much D2.

 

Do you not believe me? Go read his suspicions then. Go read my responses. You will see that he is, out and out wrong. Theres nothing to fight against because to put it simply, they were proven undeniably false literally days ago.

[Lenlo]

 

 

Lenlo, is your case on Sili because of the 'crap reasoning' he's given for you being a wolf?

This entire game his reasoning has been questionable at best. All hes really done is call me wolf, tell me to shut up cause im a wolf, then get onto people for lynching townies, without ever really fighting to defend anyone. There was no real opposition to the Dice lynch even though he was supposedly town telling. Same with Seph. The most active ive seen him this game is when hes attacking me.

 

I dont really think hes a wolf. Just not town. He has more SK equity then wolf equity to me.

 

I don't remember Sili doing that before today, though.

 

What? Pushing me? Read D1. Failing to defend a "town read"? Read D1 and D2. Tell me to shut up cause im a wolf? Like page 60. 

[Lizabeth]

 

And if people would sign my petition for DM to adopt a quote and mentions notification system, that would make things a whoooooole lot easier :D

consider it done, but where's the petition

 

 

 

Official Petition for DragonMount to adopt a quote and mentions notification system

 

1. Liz

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

.

.

.

.

.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

Okay

 

Lenlo isoooooooooooooo time

 

before I deep dive, Sili, give me the case on him again?

 

Liz, what's your case?

 

Chris, you were defending Lenlo, right? Besides the explanation of how he moved from scum reading me to not willing to vote me over seph, what else did you find towny?

 

 

RT...DT

 

*tilted*

 

*tilted beyond oblivion*

 

*headbangs*

 

*smashes the wall*

 

 

 

this is not funny

 

T.T

 

I think it's funny

[Lizabeth]

okay, i gotta go

 

Sili, if you're town, you should be invested in figuring out for sure if Len is town or not....

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

Lenlo, is your case on Sili because of the 'crap reasoning' he's given for you being a wolf?

This entire game his reasoning has been questionable at best. All hes really done is call me wolf, tell me to shut up cause im a wolf, then get onto people for lynching townies, without ever really fighting to defend anyone. There was no real opposition to the Dice lynch even though he was supposedly town telling. Same with Seph. The most active ive seen him this game is when hes attacking me.

 

I dont really think hes a wolf. Just not town. He has more SK equity then wolf equity to me.

 

I don't remember Sili doing that before today, though.

 

What? Pushing me? Read D1. Failing to defend a "town read"? Read D1 and D2. Tell me to shut up cause im a wolf? Like page 60. 

 

Okay...I'll go back and look when I get back.

 

But I'd also love for you to respond to my post about why words matter. The thread isn't as crazy now so I should be able to find it.

 

(But please sign my petition! )

[Lizabeth]

Oh, and this came on my iTunes while I was catching up. Thought I'd share it. The thread needs more music.

 

[LilyElizabeth]

Lenlo and Sili at it again? Great.

[wish-tree]

*skins all the wolves and stuffs them with cotton*

 

 

ughhhhhhhhhh

 

sorry

 

lol

[wish-tree]

okay, woosah

 

woosah.

 

lol

 

I think I'm calm?

[wish-tree]

 

 

And if people would sign my petition for DM to adopt a quote and mentions notification system, that would make things a whoooooole lot easier :D

consider it done, but where's the petition

 

 

 

Official Petition for DragonMount to adopt a quote and mentions notification system

 

1. Liz

2. wish

3. Stork

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

.

.

.

.

.

 

 

I'm signing twice, don't think he'll mind

[LilyElizabeth]

Kat ISO part 1:

 

 

 

hey kat, what exactly did you agree with zander on, in his regards to my progression?

I agreed with how you posted it it looked a little like it was you contradicting yourself. I can see what you say now, and it makes sense, but the problem is that I can't remember seeing the progression of that thought pattern in the thread. Now when you post it, it looks more like you're covering yourself instead of actually going through the thought process. But like I said yesterday I wanted to hear your explanation of how you got from "most suspicious" to "think he's town". 

 

I still understand and I'm not on board with lynching you (yet and I may never be) I would like some other people's thoughts... I'm honestly on the fence with everyone. There are so many people in here I have so little experience playing with that i'm having a hard time reading people.And there's people going after people that to me seem more town, like Zander, but I'm kinda shifty about him because I've never played in a game with him as Mafia so I really don't know what to look for, but I am not for taking people's word on other people's meta, especially when I don't know you, at all. And we have had so many hard core arguments between 2/3 people that to me were moot arguments that didn't mean anything that I feel a bit thrown off. I really feel like we're grasping at straws here and not making much progress finding scum. 

 

I mean right now we have this going down with Clov and Sili. I don't believe that either one of them really thinks the other is scum, i mean i could be reading you wrong but that's how i'm taking it, but their still arguing. The same happened with Lenlo and SIli yesterday (by the end neither of them really got anything fiured out) and with Zander and BFG. Then there have been a few genuine arguments about alignments but I have had such a hard time getting them into my head reading around the other arguments. I really need to go back and re-read most of yesterday's afternoon posts but I dread it so much.... 

 

 

/end wordy post

 

 

This post feels very towny to me. 

 

 

 

If I'm interpreting this correctly, you're saying that Seph's explanation makes sense but you don't necessarily believe it to be true.  Is that a fair assessment of your take on it?

 

If you think the larger arguments were moot points, what do you think people should be focusing on this game?  Because other than your big reads list (which, admittedly, wasn't HORRIBLE) every time you post, I feel every other post of yours is either an excuse for lack of activity/contribution or a lot of soft stances that you kind of play both sides on.

 

That's understandable for some people, but I feel like several players have said enough that you should have been able to offer up some opinion on them - even if it's changed.  ESPECIALLY if it's changed, even.

 

 

You interpreted my what I said about seph correctly yes. 

 

And I think sometimes, especially in Mafia you have to just agree to disagree, especially early in the game. Everyone picks up on different things, i mean... if you don't agree with someone about how they read someone else, for sure, come out and say "hey i don't agree, this is why" but holy crap pages of back and forth and back and forth and back and forth over something that neither one of you are going to agree on EVER while everyone else just sits back like...... yeah......... isn't helping us find out who's bad. I mean unless you piss them off bad enough for them to say "I'M GONNA KILL YOU WITH MY NIGHT KILL TONIGHT" and that's not going to happen, you're not going to find scum that way, but you will discourage other people from posting and furthering the game and you will make it where posts from other people are buried in your argument that no one is really getting a lot out of, or at least I'm not getting anything out of it. And this isn't just to you and Sili, it's to everyone. State your point, and if someone doesn't agree say. "oh well' and let your point stand. If you try beating it into everyone's head they are either going to fight against you or shut down. 

 

I saw this happen with Zander the first game I played with him. He found scum but he went at it so hard that no one believed him and after he died everyone blew his stuff off and Town almost lost because everyone was so annoyed with it lol... (not saying we were right but that's how it went) Sometimes you just gotta let stuff ride for a bit even if you KNOW you're right, because I can't see exactly what you see with the knowledge that you have and how you perceive it. 

 

Right now I haven't posted an updated Reads list because I'm still trying to sort through all the crap. Honestly every fight i've seen so far with the exception of maybe one, looks like town vs town. which i think makes the mafia just sit back and cackle... They're laughing it up while we screw ourselves over.. saw that happen in my last game. Honestly my reads list comes down to who do I trust, cause you have to trust SOMEONE else's opinion... or at least I do. So far I see a bunch of you saying Zander is suspicious but I don't see it. I see the normal zander i've seen every game that I've played with him.. and every game he's been Town... My problem is I've never seen him Scum and no matter how much he says "I'm not scum" I know that's what scum would say lol... But the rest of you I don't even know. Or I don't know well enough to trust how you play. TownZander I know is good at finding wolves. But do I trust him until he gives me reason not to or do i listen to the group of you that thinks he's suspicious?

 

Now if you want an updated list... 

 

 

From most town to most Scum

Townish

 

Clov - You really do look like you're trying to find scum. It's a towny thing to do. So far I really think you're town. 

 

Zander - I'm just not getting the not town read that ya'll are. I wish ya'll would explain exactly what he's doing that's scum cause i don't see it. And saying "it's like mario kart mafia" isn't going to cut it for me. I didn't play and I don't go read other games for fun... I have enough trouble keeping up with this game... 

 

Hallia - Just seems her normal feisty towny self. I don't get Laine's thing about her joke.. I think the joke was the nice way of trying to defuse the situation which, when it was ignored led to the "ya'll just need to quit" post. Seems like TownHallia to me. 

 

More town than Scum: 

Sili - I don't think a mafia player would draw as much attention to themselves as you have. And the game I played with you that you were mafia you didn't post at all... I really think if you weren't trying to find scum you would be less likely to rock the boat, so that leaves me to think you're more town. 

 

Dice - Seems townish. But I'm still not getting a lot of content from him, but it's not completely his thought. I would have liked some better reads from him, but all he really did was ask questions. I know a lot of this stems from him being on the wrong side of the world lol So i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment. 

 

BFG - for the moment in my townish group. Asking questions and trying to figure stuff out... seems town. Her argument with Zander really felt town vs town to me... 

 

AlannaLynn - Not sure about her. I mean.. she gave some decent reads but I didn't really get a feel for her out of it. So far she's more town than Scum mostly because a good amount of people i see in different corners read her as townish that's played with her, and I never have, and that leads me to believe that she's got a good chance at it. So i'll give her the benefit of the doubt for the time being as well. 

 

Pure Null 

LilyElizabeth - hasn't given a WHOLE lot of thoughts. Says she is having a hard time keeping up. I agree lol... Given a few reads.. One of which was I don't seem townie (I think this was her... it's hard to sort through and it's hard to remember lily elizabeth and the other lizabeth I'm getting them confused in my brain) which leads me to: 

 

Lizabeth - I'm really having a hard time reading hers and Lily's posts and associating them to the correct person. both to me are kinda null though. Neither have been extremely active that I've noticed. 

 

 

 

Null/scum (because they're kinda not here)

 

Darthe - can't think of anything of consequence he's posted. has he been on today at all? just nothing. Makes me think scum trying to hide out *shrugs* 

 

Thane - Same as ^ hasn't been here much at all but I do know he has a bit of an excuse maybe so It wouldn't be too hard for him to go up if he shows up and starts doing something. 

 

More scummish

 

Wish/Stork - So I don't love when someone says "got 5 pages of ISO bye" I mean.. really... and then posted the ISO the next day and I didn't get anything out of it... I mean... I don't get anything out of it lol... Does anyone?? please tell me if i'm wrong and not reading it right or what... I'll change my thoughts on my read of wish/stork if you do. I just don't see it. 

 

Seph - I'm keeping here. I'm just still not sure about. Put me in his town list... not sure why lol... No one else seems to think i'm town (which i'm coming to find as normal cause no one can read me apparently). I can understand his progression that Zander called him on... I just don't see it in the thread like he apparently does lol... I"m willing to give him a chance but I need more before I take him out of the scummier players. 

 

Lenlo - I don't know... I just haven't had a good feel for Lenlo all game.. Slightly defensive. though partially understandable. Just... I don't know.. I just get an off feel from him... Nothing that just makes me say "oh definitely scum" but I have a hard time finding stuff that makes you look town. sometimes it seems like you're just stirring the confusion. 

 

Nin - I find you the most scummy. You came in making accusations on Meta's that weren't there which kinda threw me off... I've tried not to take as much from that because everyone thinks it was an honest mistake, but it's hard because the bad meta was on me. lol I don't know. There's just something about you that it seems like you just came in and stirred the pot. Maybe that's your town game? It's hard to tell for me cause I haven't played with you that I can remember. It just makes me feel worst about you. 

 

/end another wordy post

 

 

I like this reads list, given the info we had at the time. I never thought Nin was mafia, but I can see where others did. 

 

 

I only have Town Meta with her but long wordy posts, paranoia, trying to find someone to trust and a fair bit of reads is mostly what I equate with Town!Kat.

 

 

 

this made me lol...... I"m a tinfoiler aren't i... i'm trying to be better this game... I really am... lol 

 

 

Zander's opinion of Kat, and we know him to have been town. She is fitting with his town assessment.

 

 

[wish-tree]

and sooo yeah

 

I'd like to look into Sili/Lenlo, independently of their push on each other, but idk if it can be done

 

Chris, unsure, I'm not sure if he would try to tie wagons that could have possibly gone to a flip. Could be a spur of the moment impulse thing, and being unaware of the wagons at the time, but I don't think that's the case.  I just voted a non-leading wagon in a turbo and that ended up going to a flip, the 0 posting town cop was randed and died. lolll

[LilyElizabeth]

ISO Kat part 2:

 

 

 

 

After that first part, she's looking pretty towny to me.  And then she makes a case on Wish that has me looking there for scum. 

 

 

So some of the votes on Nin have bothered me. Some more than others. 

 

The biggest thing really bothering me... like... a lot... Has anyone else noticed how Wish is sheeping the popular vote every time?? 

 

Ok SOOOO day1. 

 

She goes after Zander all day... Even compliments Lainey on her vote, but never votes herself. I don't think it ever gets over 2 votes on him. MAYBE it got to 3. But he was her scummiest all day long. 

 

Goes with Majority vote for pretty much no reason. 

Votes Seph. (seph dies is VT) 

 

Today - She was soooo sure yesterday that Nin was town. But now.. Nin's the Easy vote. Votes Nin for idk why. And some of her comments... 

 

 

 

wish-tree, on 07 Jun 2016 - 9:48 PM, said:

This is a post about zander.. then never followed through... went to Seph.. Zander wasn't a Viable option any more.. and he died that night so... no biggie for her if she couldn't lynch him during the day. I think he had her number and she knew it.

 

alannalynn, on 07 Jun 2016 - 9:45 PM, said:

good vote

Unvote

 

Vote: Zander

 

I'm asking Stork to make the deciding vote atm tho b/c I might be completely biased against Zander, and I want a second eye 

 

just imagine that there's a huge piano labeled vote dangling above Zander's head

 

gngn <3

 

 

wish-tree, on 10 Jun 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

 

Lenlo town town town, frustration probably real. I think he genuinely believed at EOD that the arguments against stork and me were baseless, and yeah, the problem I primarily had with him was the shift between him reading us as slightly scummy to having no problems with our slot.

After ISO, it looks like a few important things should be noted: he became caught up in the argument with sili, got extremely frustrated and thought that sili was intending to shade him on purpose, so moved sili down in his town circle. Chris, you're right, in retrospect his move of sili out of his town core makes sense, even if it's slightly OMGUS.

What bothered me yesterday about the move was that Lenlo at one point thought that sili was still town and thought he could be wrong because he was blinded by their argument, but still persisted in the fight.

However, last night, after the Hallia and Sili spat, both Lenlo and Sili have calmed down and been more open to reason, which I think is good for both of them. I don't think that the Lenlo/sili or the Hallia/Sili fights could have ever been staged.

Lenlo's continued frustration with dice misrepping his arguments or thought processes also feels genuine to me.

I'm not sure what this is. You notice she doesn't really town anyone there though... everything just feels "genuine" 

 

wish-tree, on 10 Jun 2016 - 05:49 AM, said:

This is crazy... no reason to believe dice... Key made it where claiming doesn't really mean crap unless you are PR.. Anyone can claim Vanilla Town with any band. Not sure if she's pocketing or trying to help dice out.. if you know what i mean. 

I think I believe dice.

 

wish-tree, on 10 Jun 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

Passing out again, too sleepy. Please answer my questions, but leaving my vote on niniel now that I am more confident in Lenlo being town, and I think dice's claim makes sense.

Lenlo's right, niniel linking together him and me is suspect especially if she doesn't reevaluate after his explanation of why he voted in that way.

Also, returning to my original reads before I got all tunnely on seph:

Niniel/Blessie/Hallia/?

I need to look into bfg, Chris, Liz, and Lily, I think I've been reading them as town for entrance/interaction/how they've treated me reasons, don't think that these reads are as solid as they could be.

Dice gets a one day pass for the claim. Lenlo also needs to get out of his sili spat and step it up tomorrow.

 

Never saw her as that tunnely on seph... I mean.. you just didn't agree with him... you've done this with every thing you've gotten in with anyone.. No one seems to really understand your arguments with them. Zander didn't... seph didn't... your case on Nin doesn't... ehhhhhhhhh i just can't... 

 

wish-tree, on 10 Jun 2016 - 06:10 AM, said:

And I didn't even vote niniel...

Okay loll

Vote: niniel

 

And then the vote.. i don't like it...

 

 

I have been hard core after Nin since yesterday and only got off to vote wish cause I didn't see seph as scum, but I can't vote Nin right now. I can't... I think we need to cut the head off the Hydra.... 

 

Vote: wistork

 

 

and I've tried fixin formatting on this post like 3 times... this is as good as it's gonna get. 

 

 

 

 

Just to be clear, I don't trust Darthe yet b/c of the 3P thing, but Hallia essentially just saved Kat, so yeah, I'll sheep.

 

reads are all messed up, lel

[v] Besie [/v]

And another pile on vote.... lol 

 

 

 

[Lenlo]

All I want from Sili at this point is the quote. If he can give me one that proves what he says, I will vote myself. So not only does he prove his case he gets another vote. Should be everything he wants. He has no reason not to give it to me.

 

Unless it doesnt exist and he wasnt ready for me to hard call his bluff.