MAFIA KART WII [BASIC] - Mafia Sweep

[Zander?]

 

 

It's easy to see why Cander believes emotion is a townie trait - because he as a wolf is very laid-back, but uniformly both mafia and town get annoyed and the particular vaccuum meta depends on the community. Fact is both get annoyed, and often for similar reasons, but you can usually tell the difference by how and when they get annoyed.

Ok that is pretty fair view and prob explains a good bit of how I view the issue. I think the truth lies in the latter part of your statement even more though. When I think back to scum teammates that got annoyed it wasnt from the beginning. They usually got there a bit into the fight when they take someone's statement personally and feel they are being called a bad player. It has the feel of an ego thing.

 

Celeste got annoyed at a towny speed to me.

 

 

Sometimes you'll come across the rare personality who puts themselves in the shoes of a villager and can act it out though. Gotta look out for them (aka monster, tom, cory).

 

Anyway I agree about Celeste. Her responses are villagery, not in content but in tone (from what I have seen).

 

 

What changed or did you find villagery in her last couple posts from your vote and 7 out of 10 comment from a page or 2 ago?

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

 

It's easy to see why Cander believes emotion is a townie trait - because he as a wolf is very laid-back, but uniformly both mafia and town get annoyed and the particular vaccuum meta depends on the community. Fact is both get annoyed, and often for similar reasons, but you can usually tell the difference by how and when they get annoyed.

Ok that is pretty fair view and prob explains a good bit of how I view the issue. I think the truth lies in the latter part of your statement even more though. When I think back to scum teammates that got annoyed it wasnt from the beginning. They usually got there a bit into the fight when they take someone's statement personally and feel they are being called a bad player. It has the feel of an ego thing.

 

Celeste got annoyed at a towny speed to me.

 

 

Sometimes you'll come across the rare personality who puts themselves in the shoes of a villager and can act it out though. Gotta look out for them (aka monster, tom, cory).

 

Anyway I agree about Celeste. Her responses are villagery, not in content but in tone (from what I have seen).

 

 

What changed or did you find villagery in her last couple posts from your vote and 7 out of 10 comment from a page or 2 ago?

 

I undertand what she is saying better, and you also have to understand that my reads are very composite.

[Lizabeth]

Zander, u so scum

 

Y u no answer any of my questions?

[Celeste]

Halliiiaaa why so quiet? I don't know if I believe your vacation thing.

[Zander?]

 

 

You're saying you don't make snap reads?

 

And the part I wanted to follow up on was this: why were you calling out Penny for not addressing my scum read on her but not calling out Calder for not addressing my unexplained vote on him, even after I pointed out to you that he wasn't asking me any questions about it?

 

No I dont.  I call out posts I like or dont like but no I dont make reads off of 3 posts.

 

I did question your vote on Calder. http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/97862-mafia-kart-wii-basic/?p=3641420

 

 

That's not what I asked. I gave you brownie points for being a gentleman and asking me, remember? I gave Calder minus points for failing to be so gentlemanly.

 

My question is: if it's suspicions for Lassie to not challenge my scum read on her, why was it not a problem for you that Calder didn't even acknowledge or question my actual vote on him until I questioned him about it? Celeste at least questioned me when I called her scum. So why the focus on Celeste and none on Calder. That's my question.

 

 

I think ive already answered that.

 

Votes are done for different reasons hence why I asked you about it.  Reads are reads and are normally nothing else.

 

Calder is Calder and does Calder things.  Calder's claimed Scum as both alignments. He ignored the vote altogether. I cant read his mind but maybe he thought it was a joke, maybe he read it as a reaction vote maybe he didnt give a crap?

 

Penny avoided commenting on the read itself and only talked about about the previous game and didnt try to question where it came from from your perspective/alignment.  Maybe she already knows? I dont see how she doesnt question it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see how you can legitimately make that argument.  I quoted everything she said to/about you prior to your comment.  She had barely said anything about you, whatsoever, and she had substantially more content directed towards other players.

She accused me of being scum for my first 3 posts that I made while at dinner and after work!! How does that make me scum? This is why I don't even want to get into it because it becomes this huge argument where people take sides between us. It happened in the tower and true love and we were both wrong. If this is faking then i'm just going to stop this here.

 

Without getting into another circular argument, because I hope you'll take to heart the comments I made in my preceding post: I was not wrong about your alignment in either of those games. You were wrong about mine. You're still under the mistaken belief that because I was pushing you in True Love and because I chose to sacrifice you in the Tower (where I had no choice but to vote for one of my town reads) that I did those things because I thought you were scum. I've told you multiple times that I knew you were town in both those cases and I made choices based on what I thought was the best strategy for the game at that time.

 

But I'm not hashing this out again with you in a game thread. As Chris pointed out, you're not the only person I've been poking in this game, and there are people I've poked far more. So if you're town try to get out of the mindspace that everything I do is about you. If you're scum, I'll just remind you that emotional manipulation ain't going to work on me. Expect me to push you. Figure out how to deal with it.

 

 

 

So Penny lied?

 

And you dont take issue with this???

 

Where did I say that she lied?

 

Here are the comments that I've made on the Celeste issue:

 

1) She posted something that pinged as false to me and I poked her for it (calling her scum!Lassie)

2) She and I have a history in games that includes her becoming paranoid and reactive when I've challenged her

3) She and I have had many a circular argument on this issue of her feeling that I misunderstand her and me feeling that she misunderstands me. (this is additional information, but this discussion has occurred both during and following games)

4) She seems to persist in the belief that I have misread her as scummy in the past when I keep pointing out to her (during and after games) that I didn't misread her.

 

I don't think she's lying, I think she's got the wrong perception of our history. I think that should be clear from the way I've responded to her today, especially with what I said about what I realized from the conversation between Clov and Sili where they were trying to understand what angle she was coming from.

 

 

I see where youre coming from with Liz and I really havent liked any of Penny's responses at all.

 

My one problem with Liz was made worse by Penny stating that they tend to read each other wrong.

 

But much more concerning is Penny's subsequent reaction Liz's read then the read itself.

 

[v] Penny [/v]

If she tends to read me wrong and thinks (emphasis on thinks) that I tend to read her wrong, then wouldn't it make sense if she were town to try not to overreact to me and try to leave room for a clearer read?

 

 

She didnt over react she just brushed it aside.  It didnt become a thing for her really till it was brought up by others like yours truly.

 

Exactly. But then when she reacted to people saying she didn't react enough, people like you started reading her as scummy for it.

If you'll read you'll see what my response to her tunnelling comment was. In a nutshell "yes, I think you're scum. But I'll be able to tell if you aren't". In otherwords, you didn't see me pushing her to give me a reaction.

 

Have you ever played with Celeste? I feel like you should know certain things about her if you've ever played with her... >.>

 

 

Responded to first part in Blue.

 

I dont understand your response, Im concerned she didnt react to the read itself at all. So I dont get what your were looking for or got from your push.

 

I have played with her a few games.  She is Scummy af as Town but I promise you she wont get a free pass doing something that I find Scummy and cant get any reasoning as to why that makes any semblance of sense to me.

 

Frustration is more likely Towny but it can be easily faked, if you want proof you could check out the Matrix game where I laid it on thick as Scum!Zander.

 

Im not condemning her atp but she's done nothing to alleviate my concerns yet.

[Sili Quirrels]

meh.

 

if i dietonight town is going to lose. so sad.

[Sili Quirrels]

maybe clov will carry though.

 

i would like to be carried lol.

[Sili Quirrels]

I think between her and Celeste, that Celeste looked scummier. I would lean slight town for now.

 

well beside this post i got no information from hallia's iso. but this post is pretty scummy so it confirms my best guess in a way. the fact hallia is focusin in on liz and celeste as a comparison between the two is pretty incorrect and not natural. only do that when you're looking for prey.

[Sili Quirrels]

laine, if you vote hallia i will also vote hallia. how about it?

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

You're saying you don't make snap reads?

 

And the part I wanted to follow up on was this: why were you calling out Penny for not addressing my scum read on her but not calling out Calder for not addressing my unexplained vote on him, even after I pointed out to you that he wasn't asking me any questions about it?

 

No I dont.  I call out posts I like or dont like but no I dont make reads off of 3 posts.

 

I did question your vote on Calder. http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/97862-mafia-kart-wii-basic/?p=3641420

 

 

That's not what I asked. I gave you brownie points for being a gentleman and asking me, remember? I gave Calder minus points for failing to be so gentlemanly.

 

My question is: if it's suspicions for Lassie to not challenge my scum read on her, why was it not a problem for you that Calder didn't even acknowledge or question my actual vote on him until I questioned him about it? Celeste at least questioned me when I called her scum. So why the focus on Celeste and none on Calder. That's my question.

 

 

 

I think ive already answered that.

 

Votes are done for different reasons hence why I asked you about it.  Reads are reads and are normally nothing else.

 

Calder is Calder and does Calder things.  Calder's claimed Scum as both alignments. He ignored the vote altogether. I cant read his mind but maybe he thought it was a joke, maybe he read it as a reaction vote maybe he didnt give a crap?

 

Penny avoided commenting on the read itself and only talked about about the previous game and didnt try to question where it came from from your perspective/alignment.  Maybe she already knows? I dont see how she doesnt question it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see how you can legitimately make that argument.  I quoted everything she said to/about you prior to your comment.  She had barely said anything about you, whatsoever, and she had substantially more content directed towards other players.

She accused me of being scum for my first 3 posts that I made while at dinner and after work!! How does that make me scum? This is why I don't even want to get into it because it becomes this huge argument where people take sides between us. It happened in the tower and true love and we were both wrong. If this is faking then i'm just going to stop this here.

 

Without getting into another circular argument, because I hope you'll take to heart the comments I made in my preceding post: I was not wrong about your alignment in either of those games. You were wrong about mine. You're still under the mistaken belief that because I was pushing you in True Love and because I chose to sacrifice you in the Tower (where I had no choice but to vote for one of my town reads) that I did those things because I thought you were scum. I've told you multiple times that I knew you were town in both those cases and I made choices based on what I thought was the best strategy for the game at that time.

 

But I'm not hashing this out again with you in a game thread. As Chris pointed out, you're not the only person I've been poking in this game, and there are people I've poked far more. So if you're town try to get out of the mindspace that everything I do is about you. If you're scum, I'll just remind you that emotional manipulation ain't going to work on me. Expect me to push you. Figure out how to deal with it.

 

 

 

So Penny lied?

 

And you dont take issue with this???

 

Where did I say that she lied?

 

Here are the comments that I've made on the Celeste issue:

 

1) She posted something that pinged as false to me and I poked her for it (calling her scum!Lassie)

2) She and I have a history in games that includes her becoming paranoid and reactive when I've challenged her

3) She and I have had many a circular argument on this issue of her feeling that I misunderstand her and me feeling that she misunderstands me. (this is additional information, but this discussion has occurred both during and following games)

4) She seems to persist in the belief that I have misread her as scummy in the past when I keep pointing out to her (during and after games) that I didn't misread her.

 

I don't think she's lying, I think she's got the wrong perception of our history. I think that should be clear from the way I've responded to her today, especially with what I said about what I realized from the conversation between Clov and Sili where they were trying to understand what angle she was coming from.

 

 

I see where youre coming from with Liz and I really havent liked any of Penny's responses at all.

 

My one problem with Liz was made worse by Penny stating that they tend to read each other wrong.

 

But much more concerning is Penny's subsequent reaction Liz's read then the read itself.

 

[v] Penny [/v]

If she tends to read me wrong and thinks (emphasis on thinks) that I tend to read her wrong, then wouldn't it make sense if she were town to try not to overreact to me and try to leave room for a clearer read?

 

 

She didnt over react she just brushed it aside.  It didnt become a thing for her really till it was brought up by others like yours truly.

 

Exactly. But then when she reacted to people saying she didn't react enough, people like you started reading her as scummy for it.

If you'll read you'll see what my response to her tunnelling comment was. In a nutshell "yes, I think you're scum. But I'll be able to tell if you aren't". In otherwords, you didn't see me pushing her to give me a reaction.

 

Have you ever played with Celeste? I feel like you should know certain things about her if you've ever played with her... >.>

 

 

Responded to first part in Blue.

 

I dont understand your response, Im concerned she didnt react to the read itself at all. So I dont get what your were looking for or got from your push.

 

I have played with her a few games.  She is Scummy af as Town but I promise you she wont get a free pass doing something that I find Scummy and cant get any reasoning as to why that makes any semblance of sense to me.

 

Frustration is more likely Towny but it can be easily faked, if you want proof you could check out the Matrix game where I laid it on thick as Scum!Zander.

 

Im not condemning her atp but she's done nothing to alleviate my concerns yet.

 

Well maybe I just don't understand where you're coming from on this. To me a vote is more troublesome, and I don't see why Calder gets a pass for ignoring a vote and you've been pushing so hard on Penny, to the exclusion of almost everyone else for choosing to question but not get into a fight with me over my snap read on her.

 

What's more troubling to me than this difference in opinion is that I'm really feeling like you took a long time to come to this response and it's frequently felt to me as though you've been avoiding my questions about Calder.

 

But for now, I'll wait for others to weigh in on this and ask you for your reads on anyone else who isn't me, Celeste, or Calder.

[Lizabeth]

meh.

 

if i dietonight town is going to lose. so sad.

Umm...what? How do you figure?

[Zander?]

 

 

Calder is a bit different from clov's cult game imo

How so?

Once he got his role he continued to show his laidback mafia behavior instead of trying to scum hunt. It's just with the little I'm seeing.

 

 

How would you say Calder is scum hunting?

 

Please quote some examples.

[Sili Quirrels]

Probable villagers are tunneling each other. Sigh

[Zander?]

@Liz I can see Zander push this as scum to setup a future mislynch, and it can also be him as town honestly trying to figure out my mafia philosophy in a way. Do you get it?

 

What is your read of me currently?

[Zander?]

 

If you're town, I'd recommend that you move that vote.

 

If you're scum, I'd say you've found an easy target...

 

If Celeste is scum this game then she's taken her game to a whole 'nother level. She can be sneaky as scum, but I don't see her current play as being within her scum range (yet...she'll probably try to copy it after this game :P)

 

From the multiple conversations we've had on the topic, I honestly don't think she actually understands how I town read her, so I don't think she's actually pulling a fast one here. And it would be a dangerous scheme to try to pull the wool over my eyes in a way that's almost guaranteed to get her scum read by almost everyone else who doesn't know her well.

 

 

You seem really confident on your read of her being Town.

 

Not within in Scum range yet? 

 

I tend to look at it as still within their Scum range. 

 

Are her styles really that different?

 

I like to know where reads come from.  Especially on myself.

[Sili Quirrels]

Do you see the hurt. Of all these years and the bad mistakes? Like torn fabric, stretched and torn, like leather as close to muscle as skin.

[Lizabeth]

 

If you're town, I'd recommend that you move that vote.

 

If you're scum, I'd say you've found an easy target...

 

If Celeste is scum this game then she's taken her game to a whole 'nother level. She can be sneaky as scum, but I don't see her current play as being within her scum range (yet...she'll probably try to copy it after this game :P)

 

From the multiple conversations we've had on the topic, I honestly don't think she actually understands how I town read her, so I don't think she's actually pulling a fast one here. And it would be a dangerous scheme to try to pull the wool over my eyes in a way that's almost guaranteed to get her scum read by almost everyone else who doesn't know her well.

 

You seem really confident on your read of her being Town.

 

Not within in Scum range yet? 

 

I tend to look at it as still within their Scum range. 

 

Are her styles really that different?

 

I like to know where reads come from.  Especially on myself.

 

Well, you're not her, so I don't know why you'd expect her to be like you.

 

I'll go out on a limb and say I know her better than you do. And I have yet to be wrong in reading her (since my newbie days).

 

What do you know of her scum range? And as I asked earlier - if not her, then who?

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

im just really confident in my reads for some reason. Idk.

[Lizabeth]

Do you see the hurt. Of all these years and the bad mistakes? Like torn fabric, stretched and torn, like leather as close to muscle as skin.

Dude, unless you're mafia you don't know anyone's alignment yet

 

 

And did you ever answer my question about Clov?

[Zander?]

 

 

I hope Zev isn't a wolf. :(

 

 

He probably isn't though.

 

What makes you think that?

 

his posts are very zev.

 

he's also new to mafia and he's busy so i adjusted my expectations accordingly.

 

 

also i hope i'm not wrong lolol. he'll rub it in after if i am.

 

 

 

Rash judgments are suspiciously delicious 

 

Vote: Calder

 

 

i haven't the slightest bit of preconception for anyone's habits here so this is sure to prove a stimulating challenge 

 

#thatssoZev?

 

How many games as he played?

 

Have you seen him play as both alignments?

[Sili Quirrels]

I dont know what u meant so i sort of ignored it. Im not good at reading spew besides.

[Lizabeth]

i haven't the slightest bit of preconception for anyone's habits here so this is sure to prove a stimulating challenge 

Sili, this is the quote from zev that I could find (but I think I did the iso wrong, I'll try again later).

 

What's the second quote you found?

[Sili Quirrels]

I thought he said hi.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

I hope Zev isn't a wolf. :(

 

 

He probably isn't though.

 

What makes you think that?

 

his posts are very zev.

 

he's also new to mafia and he's busy so i adjusted my expectations accordingly.

 

 

also i hope i'm not wrong lolol. he'll rub it in after if i am.

 

 

 

Rash judgments are suspiciously delicious 

 

Vote: Calder

 

 

i haven't the slightest bit of preconception for anyone's habits here so this is sure to prove a stimulating challenge 

 

#thatssoZev?

 

How many games as he played?

 

Have you seen him play as both alignments?

 

Oh never mind, Sili - Zander found them

[Lizabeth]

I dont know what u meant so i sort of ignored it. Im not good at reading spew besides.

What I meant was, you were very quick to say you would sheep Clov's votes. So I asked "what if he's scum".

 

How would you go about figuring out whether your early read on him was true or false? I'm assuming you've played with him before.