Verin: Black Ajah, or simply unbound by the three oaths.

[specialj8d]

After a recent rereading of The Great Hunt, I noticed something I was astounded I've never seen mentioned before. A clear and direct lie from either Verin or Moiraine.

 

On page 231, directly after Perrin reveals his connection to the wolves in order to act as a tracker for Ingtar, Verin gallops up to join their party. Her first words:

"Moiraine Sedai sent me, Lord Ingtar," Verin announced with a satified smile. "She thought you might need me."

 

And then, at the end of the book (page 675)..as Rand is awakening from his second battle from with Baalzamon.

 

"I did not send Verin." Moiraine frowned. "She did that on her own."

 

Now, some could argue that the lie is on Moiraine's part. Purely out of a belief that Moiraine's actions have proven her loyolaties, I choose to think that it is on Verin's.

 

So, seeing this clear contradiction, and assuming there is no error on Jordan's part, there are (at least) two possibilities:

 

a) Verin is of the Black Ajah, and able to lie at will without regard to the three oaths.

 

b) Verin, during her long years as an Aes Sedei, freed herself of the Oaths on the Oath Rod, but is not of the Black Ajah.

 

The are probably hundred of points to support both theories, and I'm anxious for more nimble minds to argue them.

 

A final point- if Verin is indeed black, where does this leave Cadsuane? Verin has thrown her support behind the woman. She has avoided trying to influence her as other sister, and also advised Rand to trust her and heed her advice.

[kobra_khan69]

After a recent rereading of The Great Hunt' date=' I noticed something I was astounded I've never seen mentioned before. A clear and direct lie from either Verin or Moiraine.

 

On page 231, directly after Perrin reveals his connection to the wolves in order to act as a tracker for Ingtar, Verin gallops up to join their party. Her first words:

"Moiraine Sedai sent me, Lord Ingtar," Verin announced with a satified smile. "She thought you might need me."

 

And then, at the end of the book (page 675)..as Rand is awakening from his second battle from with Baalzamon.

 

"I did not send Verin." Moiraine frowned. "She did that on her own."

 

Now, some could argue that the lie is on Moiraine's part. Purely out of a belief that Moiraine's actions have proven her loyolaties, I choose to think that it is on Verin's.

 

So, seeing this clear contradiction, and assuming there is no error on Jordan's part, there are (at least) two possibilities:

 

a) Verin is of the Black Ajah, and able to lie at will without regard to the three oaths.

 

b) Verin, during her long years as an Aes Sedei, freed herself of the Oaths on the Oath Rod, but is not of the Black Ajah.

 

The are probably hundred of points to support both theories, and I'm anxious for more nimble minds to argue them.

 

A final point- if Verin is indeed black, where does this leave Cadsuane? Verin has thrown her support behind the woman. She has avoided trying to influence her as other sister, and also advised Rand to trust her and heed her advice.

 

 

I dont think she's free of all of the oaths. She had to resort to poison if she was wanting to kill Cadsuane but she may be free of a few of the oaths.

[Gentled Ben]

While this is a very good topic, it has already been discussed on this forum, more than once, in fact. Most recently, it was discussed here:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10671

 

Please read through all of the appropriate material that Wynne Jessal linked to in her response. It's the very first response, so there's no need to have to scroll very far.

[Kolega]

I don´t think Verin is from the Black Ajah. She´s just too old, maybe the three oaths are not working as the should anymore..

[Luckers]

We know the oaths still work on Cadsuane, and she's older by far.

 

Remember, Verin is only between 170 and 210. (Based on Merana's thoughs in LoC.)

[Gentled Ben]

The oaths are bone-deep. If she still has the ageless look, she's still bound.

[Myyrth]

I thought it was said in the books or in discussion somewhere that Verin had taken something Moiraine said as rationalization enough to claim she was sent.

 

Remember the Oath against lying has nothing to do with the truth and everything to do with what an Aes Sedai believes or convinces herself to believe.

[Thorum]

The oaths are bone-deep. If she still has the ageless look' date=' she's still bound.[/quote']

 

That doesn't mean it have to be the same oaths