[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Kaylee]

 

Pizza: Scum hunting and overly good townish tone.

Cass: Reminds me of the two games I have played with her where we were both town. I haven't seen her as mafia but she is analyzing the thread and scum. 

Wish-tree: Gut vibe and the fact that is she is spewing how well she reads me. The only reservation I have is buddying. 

Laine: I want to see her post thoughts and I have a tiny voice in my head saying she is probably town.

Zander: He baffles me and honestly I don't know how to read him. His thought process of Wish/I read though is townish.

Csarmi: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Turin: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Leno: Absolutely null.

Shad: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Kaylee: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Nolder: Something about his question reminded me of Rustlemania. It just doesn't seem like he is town. Although he is fairly absent which makes him null.

Pralaya: Needs to post more but he also reminds me of his play in TUS.

 

 

 

Concerning Pral one post about catching up makes him your Top Scum read? Do you normally feel like low posters on inactivity is Scummy?  Like nobody else in all their posting makes you feel worse then him?

I like this question

[Kaylee]

It's a slight one and usually I don't have a lot of scum reads till after a flip.

 

OK fair enough as I tend to be the same way. Will be looking for this to change as the game goes on then.

[Kaylee]

 

Any villager in that situation is a sitting duck day one lynch because:

 

1) Nothing indicating villager

2) Several people agree she's not indicating villager either strongly or at all.

3) Wolves are fine lynching someone who several people agree probably not strongly indicating villager

 

I can't read her, at all. I can't see what's villagery about her. I can't tell what work she's done. She's struggling hard.

 

That's the only thing I can see about Celeste is that she's struggling. So if she's a wolf, I am not anticipating a sudden dazzling display of elite wolfing that makes sure she never gets lynched.

 

She isn't going to suddenly look really townie to everyone in the group, so if this is how she plays all game, she's going to be a lynch or a vig shot or a scan or... something.

 

If she's a wolf I have a lot of confidence this group will make the correct decision on that soon. I don't believe we have enough data to make an intelligent decision NOW.

 

But I don't have enough data to make an intelligent diagnosis. So I'm taking a tissue culture and I'm putting it in the lab and I'm waiting to see if little werewolf spores develop in the petri dish before I hang her for the crime of being unsure of how to village on day one.

 

That's my leap of faith decision.

 

Whereas I don't get a struggling townie vibe from Turin at all. What I see from Turin is someone who has chosen something really arbitrary to push as "scummy" on someone I feel is a villager, and I'm not sensing Turin has trouble villaging. But this isn't recognizeable villaging to me.

I really like this. I can agree with this about Celeste. Turin is one I don't read as well however from what I remember he usually puts in effort. If have to look at his reason for voting again to see if I agree about that part.

[Kaylee]

I haven't made a ton of "enemies" yet.

 

I don't have a specific reason to do so, so it would be forced if I did, but that's one thing you look for.

 

In my past 3 games on this site where I was a villager, I did attack more aggressively on day one. So that is why I should still be townie but not blue.

After your recent posts you're my strongest town read.

[Kaylee]

Like, if Pralaya could be epic within the next 24 hours and get himself solid green, I think we'd be in good shape.

 

I need my nulls to travel north.

 

I need a King in the North, a Warden of the North, a Lord of Winterfell, and a Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

 

And also I need a cup bearer to carry around my impressive amount of awesomesauce.

I'm trying but I typically struggle early game. In fact I'm trying to change since my last town game I spent sheeping my strongest town read, Nyn.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm still here btw, I'm studying Norwegian for a couple hours before Sooh gets home.

 

But I will check in here periodically and answer any further questions you might have. 1 day 14 hours+ remain.

 

Plenty of time for Turin to village out of my suspicions.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Kaylee, you got me as your top town read.

 

I'd like to do the same. You should be pretty easy to iso as your posts haven't been enormous or especially spammy.

 

But, could you point me to your leans/reads list if you have one, and give me as much detail on every player as you have to-date?

 

I've had you at the bottom of my list for a while, not because you're especially scummy, but because I've been able to see the villaging from others better.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ Alanna, I'll be done studying shortly and that will probably be when you've caught up.

 

Let me know, let's talk more in real time. I would love to push you higher on my villager list but I gotta really pick your brain and see if I have belief in the you that believes in you.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm still here btw, I'm studying Norwegian for a couple hours before Sooh gets home.

 

But I will check in here periodically and answer any further questions you might have. 1 day 14 hours+ remain.

 

Plenty of time for Turin to village out of my suspicions.

 

Couple hours just became less than 1 hour.

[alannalynn]

Going ahead and responding to this as of p37.

 

 

My list looks something like this... ?

Alanna
Lenlo
Zander

Pizza
Shad
Cass
Wish

Csarmi
Pral
Nolder

Celeste
Kaylee
Turin

 

 

ALANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNAAAA!!!!

 

<3 <3 <3

 

Dont put your own name on your reads lists!!!!

 

What is it about Penny you find that makes her more scummy then Lenny?

 

Can you provide some reasons behind your reads please?

 

Re: My reads list, most of my reads are supported by what I've already mentioned, but I can definitely go through some of the reasons. And YES I put myself at the top becasue of weird reasons where the list feels incomplete... :/

Lenlo: top town read: he feels like town to me, and I haven't hated anything he's done. His tone is coming over really good for me and I feel like he's actively involved. The whole exchange we had with him questioning my read of him confirms that this is the right spot for Lenlo. He did a few things that I don't really expect to see from mafia. Unless he suddenly claims mafia, I'm leaving him in that spot.

Zander: Dude, you're probably town and we're gonna wreck the wolves. I would probably need a cop view to doubt you right now. I just feel like you're here and asking questions and taking your time to work up to scum reads instead of it seeming like you already know. I think I skimmed a Lenny ISO, but I haven't gotten to that point in my reread yet.

Pizza: I think he's pretty solidly town unless proven otherwise. Not going to worry about him until later anyways if he is. Besides, nks may clear him up. Basically, You feel pretty townie, I'm not going to worry yet. I would like a chance to talk to you and clear up my own slot for you though.

Shad: I want to slot him town so much but I have a nagging feeling about his slot. Definitely needs an ISO so I can be more confident in this read. This nagging feeling reminds me of how I felt in Pulp Fiction. Doesn't mean I'm going to read you mafia for it, it may just be something on my end that I'm not thinking through. I feel like he's mostly engaged and scum hunting but there's a few things I've noticed that have bothered me.

Cass: Same as I've mentioned before, I like that she's putting in work. And work is good, effort is good. That's what's getting her the town lean. BUT, I myself don't feel like the work that's being done is productive. To me, it feels like she's asking questions just to ask questions and appear useful. I mentioned that I would have put her lower before and  I think Shad mentioned that he was surprised I hadn't since I HAD shown reservations, but I'm going to ISO this one and see how I feel afterwards.

Wish: Town lean is due to her entrance to the game and the active scum hunting as well as a difference from how she was when I played with her in TUS. I can see a process there and I can see that she's trying to make reads and do something with it. This is why she's here on my list and why she's above Celeste. The one difference between Cass and Wish is that I feel like I can follow Wish's thought process a little bit better than Cass, so I think technically I should have put Wish above Cass at this point. Though, this definitely could be due to me being able to understand Lenny better outside of mafia too. She's like an Alanna twin at this point. If she keeps showing me her work and the effort she's putting in, I'm going to be happy with this town read.

Csarmi/Pral/Nolder: Don't remember a damn thing they've done thus far. Csarmi I know has been around for a few posts but I'm pretty sure I keep forgetting he's even in the game. Pral hasn't even posted at this point. And Nolder posted that scenario that he wanted us all to answer but I don't remember anything other than that. None of them have earned reads one way or another but by force of POE, they could be sliding down pretty soon.

Celeste: She hasn't done anything for me to warrant a town read. She's also had a few defensive posts that I haven't been fond of.

Kaylee: Can't remember any kind of thread presence even though I know she's been here posting, so it's partially result of POE. ISO candidate.

Turin: Don't like his reads list, it's bad, it's doing nothing for me, it's superficial. His comments on Lenlo's meta are actually null for me now, but I got a bad feeling when he was responding to me about it and my read on Lenlo, like he's trying to turn it around on me. I don't remember the last time that town reading someone was something to be given - points for.

[Kaylee]

Zander is now firmly town for me. That was some proper work on the Wish ISO. If everyone is still convinced Shad is not a candidate for today then I would be most willing to switch to Wish.

Shad has been in my town pile so I won't be voting him. I'm not sold on you however and I'm more willing to follow my strong town read, Pizza, onto you. Why shouldn't you be the lynch today?

 

I also like what Pizza said about your list right after this post of yours.

[Askthepizzaguy]

"And YES I put myself at the top becasue of weird reasons where the list feels incomplete..."

 

Yeah, and because if you want to count the POE, there's another player on the list. The math isn't correct unless you add yourself.

 

In turbos on 2+2, 6 vanillas, 1 seer, 2 wolves, All the villagers have to do is find 4 other villagers and themselves.

 

You find 4 villagers and there's enough mislynches to spare, assuming you don't lynch yourself, to POE out the remainders.

 

9 d1, 7 d2, 5 d3, 3 d4. Is 4 lynches to work with.

 

Yourself and X number of villagers this game solves the game in the same way. Given how people are posting and the progress we're making on that front, I'm more concerned about finding the townie group than the scums.

 

But I did find a scum I think. I don't need to find them all day one. Just one is fine.

 

Then I gotta find another one on day two. As if I'll live that long. :P

[Askthepizzaguy]

To be clear, I'd love to find them all though.

 

Wolves not being as overt this game. More data is needed.

 

By day 2 this should really look pretty good. There's a lot of must-murder townies already.

[csarmi]

Page 9-11

 

Kaylee looks villagery.

Laine is cooking.

Zander is lololol and make me fall asleep.

Turin has a weird crush on Shad.

I cant tell Wish and Cel3ste apart.

[alannalynn]

What up Pizza?

[csarmi]

Guys, I'm here for a few hours at least but I'm going to be quiet. Refining my entire style under mentor direction, and it basically involves me starting a linear read from the beginning of the game and reporting back.

 

Just do you lovely.

[csarmi]

To be clear, I'd love to find them all though.

 

Wolves not being as overt this game. More data is needed.

 

By day 2 this should really look pretty good. There's a lot of must-murder townies already.

Thread looked super strong in the first dozen pages.

[Kaylee]

Kaylee, you got me as your top town read.

 

I'd like to do the same. You should be pretty easy to iso as your posts haven't been enormous or especially spammy.

 

But, could you point me to your leans/reads list if you have one, and give me as much detail on every player as you have to-date?

 

I've had you at the bottom of my list for a while, not because you're especially scummy, but because I've been able to see the villaging from others better.

I'll try, though I have a lot of null...

 

The order I copied from Alanna's list so as to not miss anyone.

 

Alanna - town lean. I'm looking the work she's putting in, explaining herself and giving reads and vibes all say likely town.

 

Lenlo - Town. Stronger lean than Alanna. Darker green. He's tone, style and overall liked what he's had to say.

 

Zander - About the same as Leno. Mind melded a few times. He's gone after what he feels is a sunny without ignoring the rest of the game. He seems genuine and I just find myself nodding a lot of at least able to see where's he's coming from and it feels townie.

 

Pizza - Blue read. You've made me think. You're approach this game and esp recently had me thinking you have to be town. If I'm wrong then bravo to you. The way you've put in work, and so early, I just don't see coming from scum.

 

Shad - Light green. He's one I'm not as familiar with. Why town? His willingness to go against the grain with his reads, how he's handled Celeste for example. He is putting in effort and fighting for what he feels is right. Also genuine and a "I don't care if you don't agree, but vote someone I feel is town and I'll fight it" attitude.

 

Cass - light green. She's fooled me before though. Here she comes across as more ready going and free thought which I associate with her town game.

 

Wish - Unsure ATM so null I suppose. I have mixed feelings.

 

Csarmi- Null I have a real hard time reading him.

 

Pral- Note enough from him Null

 

Nolder- Reserving since he's going outside what I'm used to. Null for now just to place him. Time will tell with this slot.

 

Celeste - I'm going with Pizza here and saying more time will tell. So she's between grey and yellow.

 

Kaylee- me town and I know I need to step it up. I'm trying to do better.

 

Turin - Yellow. I'd like him to answer my question. I like what piazza's had to say against him.

[alannalynn]

 

I have to go do some chores now.

When I get back again I'll fully catch up and give some more thoughts.

WEW!

That took forever.

Ok guys I'm exhausted I'm going to sleep now sorry.

TTYL!

Nolder... this is useless for me trying to read you. So is your following post. Less joking, more working.

@Nolder, have you posted a reads list at all? Any raisons? Who you voting today?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My list looks something like this... ?

Alanna

Lenlo

Zander

Pizza

Shad

Cass

Wish

 

Csarmi

Pral

Nolder

 

Celeste

Kaylee

Turin

 

 

I did not anticipate a town lean on Cass. Why?

I actually fought with myself on that. I wanted to put her lower but without having my nulls sorted I didn't want to put her so far down. I'm not sure I have a SCUM lean on her, but I barely have a town lean. She has the potential to fall lower once I go back and read her stuff. I just remember a lot of work coming from her but not a lot of what I would consider useful.

 

 

Alanna....this is starting worry me about you cause it really seems like fence sitting/leaving yourself an out kinda....

I'm allowed to change my reads. I'm doing my best to be upfront and honest with you about them too. I posted reads to go with my list per request, let me know what you think. I'm catching up today and I'll start really digging into the game since this is my weekend and I'm staying in bed for three days anyways.

 

 

 

 

Where I am currently...

 

1. Shad: I didn't like the meta incident. Further I really didn't like the way he tried to frame the argument that it was a stupid discussion. It felt like an attempt to nullify any resistance without having to actually back up his earlier statement.

2. Kaylee: I am concerned about two times that she basically asked a question but then gave an easy "okay" to the answer. If this is holding cards close then it might be acceptable but it felt like looking like trying to solve without actually trying to solve.

3. Zander: He seems to be asking the right questions and he did repeat some of the questions I was asking when he was catching up and posting. The shouting has come down some which makes him easier to physically read if not as obvious in his alignment. 

4. Turin: by Role PM 

5. Pizza: Unsure.. I didn't like the entire note taking thing that felt like something non-game related to post to be "helpful". Maybe I would care about it if I took notes. Active and doing things but nothing that makes him obvious town. also curious to see what his thoughts were about he changing read on me. I may be biased there however.

6. Csarmi: not much content. I read his OP as null. Value does not equal alignment. Need more from him.

7. Laine: Disagree with her point about me. Also didn't like the comment to Lenlo regarding her having him as top town read. Feels like pocket attempt. 

8. Leno: Nothing so far that is pinging to me. I know that he has improved his game all around but I will give credit for his willingness to question someone that was town reading him. 

9. Wish-tree: Trying to remember what she has said. Nothing coming to me ATM. 

10. Pralaya: Starting the pool for when he makes his first post. I got 04/01/2016 2230 GMT. That is January 4th for americans.

11. Celeste: Despite her attempt to claim otherwise some posts reading as AtE. Also never liked people coming in and saying they are playing at a higher level. This may be clouding my view a bit however. 

12. Nolder: not much so far from Nolder aside from his question and results. Seems like an easy thing to post in either alignment.

13. Cass (with Cory mentoring): Good questions. Solid so far. 

 

WTL: Shad, Laine, Celeste, Kaylee. 

 

Out for a few hours. see ya all later.

Im not a fan of this reads list.  Its not just because I have different reads it just feels like one of those lists Scum tend to throw together just for the sake of doing so.  Kinda wishy wahsy, with weak reasoning imo.

Agreedd

 

 

Im still hoping Wish catchs up to it, but im considering the possibility that she has already caught up to it and may just be ignoring it.

sorry, game is ending on the other site that I'm playing on.

(scum gave up...)

 

Do you mean your vote on Celeste? It's one vote, nothing dangerous. But you had best take your vote off of her, because she's town. :P

 

I'm also wondering why Zander isn't replying to my isos. 

You're very confident Celeste is town. Doubtful w/w. And extreme buddying if wolf...

 

Celeste is probably town.

 

Either Wish is town who reads her well and we should take her opinion pretty seriously here, or Wish is scum buddying the hell out of a town.  Scum!Wish defending scum!Celeste to the extent that she has thus far would be pretty counterproductive.  It banks on no one ISOing previous games to verify her statements.  It banks on someone like me stepping in and putting on the breaks, because a generic town lynches Wish as soon as Celeste flips scum, and Celeste is certainly on the table today.

 

I think Wish is town.  I certainly wouldn't lynch her today.

This is actually what I was starting to think, I like that you bring this up.

 

#773:

Cass: "I do agree that there's potential for fence-sitting scum and I don't like her 'she has the potential to fall lower once I go back' after Shad expresses he expected her to not have me in town. That feels like she may be trying to placate him a little. I have her tricky null.

@Alanna - why would it bothered you to put me below your nulls if you think I've been doing a lot of nothing useful?"

I think it bothers me because I'm trying to weigh effort against usefulness. Being that I have little meta of you (I played one game where we were mafia), I don't have a full grasp of how you generally play, especially as town. I remember you putting in a lot of effort as mafia as well, so that's where I'm kind of conflicted.

 

[alannalynn]

I'm at the top of 41

[Askthepizzaguy]

What up Pizza?

 

I'm here. I'm eating dinner but lessons are done now!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Kaylee, you posting from phone? :P

[Kaylee]

Kaylee, you posting from phone? :P

Yup computer hasn't worked in awhile.

[Kaylee]

I'll be in and out all day. Will do my best to stay caught up and answer any questions.

[alannalynn]

I'm still here, reading slow because I can't focus very well