[Advanced] Nightmare Before Christmas - Town Wins!

[John Snow]

*only* page 10 more like. It's been over 24hrs, should be closer to 25 pages. 

[Clovdyx]

Vote Count
 

• Zander - 1 -  Lenlo
• Nolder - 1 - Askthepizzaguy 
• John Snow - 1 - Alannalynn
• Andrej - 1 - John Snow

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Clovdyx]

Standard disclaimer: if the VC is wrong, PM me immediately.  

 

Also Leelou did it.

[John Snow]

I mean...the formatting is wonky.

[Andrej]

Been working on the ceilings all day. Making a trip to the hardware store then going back to clean up

 

I'll catch up later tonight :)

[Lenlo]

Hey we got a Nolder

[Askthepizzaguy]

Red   as I stated to AJ JS has had this sort of start to every game i can think of him in since he came back   what?? 6mths ago? In fact they feel so similar i think they are planned.

 

Does he do it when he's a townie? If so, this is his preferred method of starting a game when he's a townie as well.

 

Blue   Snow can be active but he can also suddenly disappear for days. Think your jumping to some conclusions off a too limited sample.

 

It's early day one, there's not much but limited samples to use. Yet myself and others still think there's enough to base votes off of.

 

Johns start bugs me. It gives me bad vibes but it does that every game he does it. theres just something about it. If I had to vote right now it would be him but its all just a feel no reasons.

 

Granted, doing the exact same thing every game gives good cover for a scum. So, what do you use to tell the difference? If he's townie more often than not, and his behavior matches his town game, then I can't follow what you're saying.

 

I will give your gut feeling more weight than my own since you know him, keep an eye on him, but. If you could point out more, it would be helpful. Now is not necessary, later is fine. Whatever you see when you see it.

 

straight up. I HATE this reasoning.

Noted.

 

But as lurking and avoiding the game are strategies some use to play the game, to avoid leaving in-thread behaviors that can get them caught, so too is it valid for townies to examine and look for patterns of absence, and non-playing behavior, and extrapolate motivation. That's my position on the matter, I respect and disagree with yours. We can debate it after the game. All I can use to extrapolate the motivation is publicly available data everyone in the game can see. I'm not using a skype indicator or moderator-seeing-through-invisible mode cheatsy kind of stuff. You don't need to go looking for it- This is stuff you'll absorb passively while trying to look up the guy's previous games. I won't ignore it if I stumble across it.

 

You'll also note it formed basically none of the initial cases I made against Nolder.

 

As an aside, I just got through three straight games of townies straight up abandoning the game they signed up for, and posted in, starting from day one. Posted or voted on day one, so they're obviously aware of the game and that it began, and began play, and promptly stopped playing entirely. No explanation given, no apologies offered thereafter. On three different games, on three different forums, back to back to back. And they went on their merry way posting elsewhere on the forum.

 

It becomes my concern if people avoid the game, on several levels- it impacts my search for the alignments of players adversely (and unfairly might I add), and it impacts the playability and fairness and balance of the game. I'm not saying Nolder is guilty of this, just that I have fully legitimate reasons to want to know if someone is avoiding play.

 

My initial vote on Nolder was based purely on researching his past game as town and scum, and noting the similarities in my notes. Then stating them outright when asked. It was only when it was offered by someone else that he probably is asleep, did I point out no, it wasn't the case. And I was using public knowledge.

 

Straight up, I hate lurking. I don't consider it to be sporting play. If no one lurks, then I don't have any reason to wonder why they're not here. But I acknowledge that lurking is legal, and considered fair play by many. And so, I consider it valid. Therefore, in order to combat that, I will consider lurking as a valid behavior to take into account during an analysis.

 

I'll also form almost none of my opinions based off of it, since as I mentioned, townies often do a craptastic job being present and accounted for.

 

But if used as a defense- he isn't here because he's sleeping, and I know just based on publicly available data that this isn't true, I'll say it.

 

And I'm not going to apologize for saying so. If you lurk, and that is fair play, then so too is noting someone is lurking, not strictly absent.

 

Period.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The above barely applies at all to Nolder anyhow. It's more a defense of my policies regarding absentee players or lurkers, that latter of which Nolder only barely qualifies for. Had Dice said nothing about it, I wouldn't have said much more about it. But if Dice is saying this is BS/inadmissible stuff, then my response is a detailed explanation as to why it isn't.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nolder looks disinterested.  Means nothing at this point.

I'm very skeptical that Nolder means nothing to you. I feel that you're aware of Nolder's alignment, and don't want to reveal how you became aware of it.

 

Whether Nolder is townie or not, you are likely not.

[Andrej]

Nolder is awesome. It's such a shame he's mafia this time.

 

Vote: Nolder

 

I was gonna ask why when I quoted this but I already have my answer after reading through, which btw, wasn't actually why I thought you had voted him.

 

I can't recall ever seeing Dice be a townie. But then again I am probably forgetting one game.

 

This game, I think Dice is pretty solidly townie. It's in his tone and sense of humor. I sense something good here.

 

This is pretty much how I try to read him as well. Also his willingness to extrapolate as a villager is much higher than when he is a wolf from what I remember. 

 

 

im pretty happy with AJ so far Pizza.

 

I like his play regardless. I feel like if he's a wolf I can at least figure it out based on his patterns. I'm not saying push the flush button yet, just that I don't feel like he's a townie.

 

Yet.

 

 

For me, right now:

Alanna

Thane

Lenlo

Dice

 

Pizza

Tabor

BFG

Zan

Notbob

Andrej

 

Nolder

Snow

 

I'm assuming the black section are nulls, but are they ordered?

 

If so could you explain? I think your Dice/Lenlo reads are probably good, can't make Thane a green yet after our last game though where he had me fooled D1. Time will tell though if that game is any indication.

 

-snip-

 

I see that you obviously did some research into the matter, I'm fairly impressed. From my experience Nolder isn't that hard to catch as a wolf - I've lynched him a few times in our last couple of outings where he was wolfing and there are a few behavior I like to look for when it comes to him.

 

Fwiw - I'm willing to give him more time to get his feet wet. I don't think all the trends you think you've seen really apply to him though, he can be a busy poster as scum but the way he posts is telling. I'll explain later once he actually gets into the game, but suffice to say I will likely be able to tell you.

 

I'll do my best to catch the wolves. Like Frozen, but with a happy ending this time.

 

:(

 

Sorry bout the quote chains, I just quote things I am interested in or want to respond to as I catch up.

 

As for Nolder, thank you. I can see what you are saying but this game has only been up for 20 hours or so. Yeah he popped in and then dipped, but that was very early on before any real content started. He could have gone to sleep, or had something to do cause its the weekend. So while I dont disagree with your assessment of those two games/his scum game, I wanna give him abit of time to get involved now that we have gotten serious.

 

If upon his return he stays consistent with your case then I will feel good following you and voting him.

 

Oh hey Nomi. Haha, that game. Never hard bussing like that again.

 

I mostly agree with Lenlo's stance here re: Nolder. Give the dude some time and more rope to (potentially) hang himself with.

 

Lenlo looks pretty villagery so far imo.

 

I guess you're gonna take my advice from last game and actually think about stuff, hm? I'm proud of you :P

 

I'm not sold on dice yet. I don't like AJ's tenacity either. I think I remember more willingness to do stuff in the early game from him before, but I'll have to check. 

I'll ISO Nol and see what I think about that. 

For now, I'm going to [unvote] [v]AJ[/v]

 

Tenacity? Explain if you would.

 

I don't really see how you can say I was unwilling to do anything, unless you're talking about voting Zander? Then no, you're right about that. I didn't vote him because I didn't see the point in doing so for absolutely no reason.

 

Like I said earlier, I appreciate your enthusiasm but it was sort of forced in a generic/hokey kind of way. Like I don't think it actually really accomplished anything really meaningful

[Andrej]

Congrats Pizza, by the way.

 

All the best wishes for you two

[Askthepizzaguy]

Welcome back, AJ.

 

Got a few minutes to chat?

[Andrej]

Yeah, I'll be around for a bit.

[Andrej]

Been working hard on the new house the whole day. We got the ceilings in the living room, dining room and main hallway done.

 

I feel manly and productive

[Lenlo]

 

 

Sorry bout the quote chains, I just quote things I am interested in or want to respond to as I catch up.

 

As for Nolder, thank you. I can see what you are saying but this game has only been up for 20 hours or so. Yeah he popped in and then dipped, but that was very early on before any real content started. He could have gone to sleep, or had something to do cause its the weekend. So while I dont disagree with your assessment of those two games/his scum game, I wanna give him abit of time to get involved now that we have gotten serious.

 

If upon his return he stays consistent with your case then I will feel good following you and voting him.

 

Oh hey Nomi. Haha, that game. Never hard bussing like that again.

 

I mostly agree with Lenlo's stance here re: Nolder. Give the dude some time and more rope to (potentially) hang himself with.

 

Lenlo looks pretty villagery so far imo.

 

I guess you're gonna take my advice from last game and actually think about stuff, hm? I'm proud of you :P

 

Its alot easier to think about stuff when your town and dont already know what alignment most everyone is :P

 

Mafia I have to fake thinking about stuff, which sucks.

 

Pizza +1 for you abit. Nolder popped in and then dipped again. I am interested to see what he will say when he returns.

[Andrej]

Ditto on that note, Len.

[Lenlo]

Which note?

[Andrej]

I was teasing about the thinking part, though I'm sure you know that.

 

You're just coming across more... thoughtful/thorough(?) here than in our last game where I mislynched you D1 :(

[Andrej]

Which note?

 

About wanting to see what Nolder comes back with.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I know gut feelings I'm having are difficult to reproduce, but could you take a lot at my exchange with NotBob so far.

 

I don't know if I can put it any more simply, and it would help if I could. But I don't often see townies defend other players that they have ranked as null on their list of suspects, where they don't have any strong feelings one way or the other.

 

What I do see is scumbags defend against accusations on other players who are townie- in such a case, the objective is to look "more correct" than the other player, and further drive a wedge between the player who is accusing, and his target, both of them townies. It's a way of keeping the fire going between townies, where agreeing with the accuser would also make the accused not like you, now the accused townie has a reason to appreciate you.

 

Or, they'll defend a fellow scumbag, and of course, when pressed on the reasons why, if they can't offer any, it looks pretty bad.

 

I can't really tell which is which here, but regardless of whether or not I'm correct about Nolder, NotBob's null stance on Nolder yet positive disagreement with me that Nolder is scum, indicates that NotBob is doing one of the above behaviors- defending a townie but not being able to articulate how you arrive at such a position, or defending a fellow scumbag, and not being able to explain why, so he insists that he's not saying that Nolder is a townie, but null.

 

I don't buy it and I don't think that's hardly ever a townie's behavior.

 

If I defend someone or disagree with the case against them, my reasons are hardly ever nonexistent, and my stance on that player isn't null either.

 

Can you spend several minutes looking into this and give me a second opinion, please AJ

[Lenlo]

I was teasing about the thinking part, though I'm sure you know that.

 

You're just coming across more... thoughtful/thorough(?) here than in our last game where I mislynched you D1 :(

Its cool. Im not gonna let a deadline sneak up on me this game, and the only final I have left is in a class I have a 96 in so im not stressed about it at all. Im basically already on break. 1 more year and I will be college grad. To bad I gotta prep to try and get into Grad school :P

 

So AJ, what do you think of Pizza? He looks good to me. Hes figuring stuff out, trying to piece it together with what small stuff we have. But hes been kinda focused on Nolder through it all, interacting with others with Nold as the topic. Only game I have had with him was the game he was Nomi in, and as scum we offed him pretty quickly so I dont have a baseline for him.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am fine with giving Nolder time to sleep, read up, catch up, and respond, since he posted in the thread about it.

 

I am skeptical that he's a townie, but it was the first bit of concrete analysis I could come up with. I'm getting more concerned about NotBob actually.

[Askthepizzaguy]

take a lot- take a look. Whatever. Not editing sux.

[Andrej]

So AJ, what do you think of Pizza? He looks good to me. Hes figuring stuff out, trying to piece it together with what small stuff we have. But hes been kinda focused on Nolder through it all, interacting with others with Nold as the topic. Only game I have had with him was the game he was Nomi in, and as scum we offed him pretty quickly so I dont have a baseline for him.

 

I like him thus far. He seems invested in solving, to the extent of making meta comparisons on a suspect, and what he's saying about NotBob re: Nolder is pretty sharp stuff.

 

That said, I will reserve my right to tinfoil later on if I feel like he's not playing to town's best interests :P

 

We've only played once together, in Darthe's huge Middle Earth game, and were on opposing scum teams and I know he is quite capable of posting/playing well as a wolf, so I'll probably never get over the little voice in my head that tells me to be worried but I'm rather happy with him for D1.

[Lenlo]

Alright. Im naturally alittle paranoid after some of the things I have seen people do as scum, but I agree about him for D1. I suppose we shall have to see how his cases do and how correct he is.

 

Im gonna say this though, dude is to wordy by half.