[Advanced] Nightmare Before Christmas - Town Wins!

[Lenlo]

I see. Shad, your rebuttal?

[Andrej]

 

Pretty much if Tab is a wolf that'll lock Shad in for me.

 

He clears quite a few people he's been toying with like Nolder/NotBob

 

The last one should be Thane or one of Pizza/BFG

 

I'm home now.  I'm extremely curious about this statement.  Could you explain what you mean here, AJ?

 

Yes. I feel like your line of questioning hasn't been very productive to the other all solving of this game.

 

You strung Nolder along for pages nitpicking points and still remain wishy washy on your opinion of him.

You did similarly with NotBob asking loaded type questions with expected answers.

 

It looks like busy work, to put it simply.

[Andrej]

lol wtf Len

[Lenlo]

Its midnight here, my WiM is low, im tired of peoples BS, I wanna post funny pictures.

 

That a problem?

[Andrej]

No, I actually laughed when I saw that.

 

Your levity was appreciated.

[Lenlo]

I think I could communicate in only Judge Judy gifs and still be clearer my reads/intentions than other players in this game. I might give it a shot.

[Lenlo]

This is relevant to some people here.

[Shad_]

But I asked for a meta-based "interpretation", not explicitly a scum case. You are leaving out the possibility that I think town!AJ might re-look at EoD with my meta in mind and resolve on a more null read himself.

 

Because I fancy that if you are town that just might happen, but you are declining to do it.

 

I suppose you're also forgetting that I was dead wrong and BFG and Laine both read me as scum, but the generic point that I (believe that I) know how to play to my town meta stands. 

 

But I'm still not sure I track what you're arguing here.  You think I want you to provide a meta-based scum case against me so that I can point to other games and go "but look everybody, I did that as town"?  That's somewhat strange when there are scum counterexamples in the game you just referenced.  If you're town believing I'm scum, wouldn't you want me to eat myself alive by creating a scenario where I say "I would only do this as town!" and then slamming me with scum examples?

[Lenlo]

AJ?

[Shad_]

 

 

Pretty much if Tab is a wolf that'll lock Shad in for me.

 

He clears quite a few people he's been toying with like Nolder/NotBob

 

The last one should be Thane or one of Pizza/BFG

 

I'm home now.  I'm extremely curious about this statement.  Could you explain what you mean here, AJ?

 

Yes. I feel like your line of questioning hasn't been very productive to the other all solving of this game.

 

You strung Nolder along for pages nitpicking points and still remain wishy washy on your opinion of him.

You did similarly with NotBob asking loaded type questions with expected answers.

 

It looks like busy work, to put it simply.

 

 

hmm...  There was an instance where I sort of spoon fed NotBob an answer.  I don't hate that you noticed that.  I still like that NotBob got around to giving that answer though, because he seemed to really not be tracking what I was asking him.

 

I'm not sold on your Nolder comments though.  I was pretty explicit on my thoughts about him, and I am pretty wishy-wash about him for reasons that I think I laid out well enough.  Do you expect town!Shad to necessarily walk away with a strong read one way or the other?

[Andrej]

I have given you my interpretation regarding you and how EOD went down.

 

As I stated above, there are things that I saw and can think to myself "that's the Shad I know". For instance, in a vacuum I don't think it looks bad that you were unsure who to vote for. I've seen you do that before and have been there myself plenty of times - I can understand that. However, I also know that you understand the importance of your vote as a villager and I know that you would ensure that you were voting for someone, anyone, that you felt was the right lynch. It doesn't necessarily have to be correct by means of killing scum, but your process is clear. I simply don't understand what you were hoping to accomplish by voting Snow when I expressed desire to switch to Tab, and then fake voting Tab only to settle on no one in the end. THAT, specifically, I don't see a town!Shad doing.

 

Tbh that is mostly my biggest gripe. There are other things here and there, which I touched on regarding your interactions with others, and a few things that you said my way that made me a little uncomfortable. Like I said earlier, I know that you understand that as scum you need to give 'indicators' if you will to get people to town read you. There were a few times during D1 when you said things like "I'm sussing AJ but I agree with his suspects so that's probably a good sign" that would fall into this category because it's a dynamic we often experience as villagers together. What I need to hammer out is if you were doing this intentionally to level me or not, and currently I'm leaning the former.

 

I'm not 100% sold on you yet, but my suspicion is growing with your line of questioning here. I still want to lynch Tab because she's probably a wolf like 9/10 times with her performance and Zander NK and your seemingly resistance to that is unnerving.

[Lenlo]

 

 

 

Pretty much if Tab is a wolf that'll lock Shad in for me.

 

He clears quite a few people he's been toying with like Nolder/NotBob

 

The last one should be Thane or one of Pizza/BFG

 

I'm home now.  I'm extremely curious about this statement.  Could you explain what you mean here, AJ?

 

Yes. I feel like your line of questioning hasn't been very productive to the other all solving of this game.

 

You strung Nolder along for pages nitpicking points and still remain wishy washy on your opinion of him.

You did similarly with NotBob asking loaded type questions with expected answers.

 

It looks like busy work, to put it simply.

 

 

hmm...  There was an instance where I sort of spoon fed NotBob an answer.  I don't hate that you noticed that.  I still like that NotBob got around to giving that answer though, because he seemed to really not be tracking what I was asking him.

 

I'm not sold on your Nolder comments though.  I was pretty explicit on my thoughts about him, and I am pretty wishy-wash about him for reasons that I think I laid out well enough.  Do you expect town!Shad to necessarily walk away with a strong read one way or the other?

 

What the heck Shad? What is with all this non-committal language? Your not taking a strong stance on anything. You are sitting in the middle of the street and at this rate your going to get hit by a car.

[Andrej]

I'm not sold on your Nolder comments though.  I was pretty explicit on my thoughts about him, and I am pretty wishy-wash about him for reasons that I think I laid out well enough.  Do you expect town!Shad to necessarily walk away with a strong read one way or the other?

 

For the amount of interaction you've had with him, yes, I would think you'd be a little more committed to a read then you are portraying.

 

I saw the things that you talked about as reasons to be unsure, but most of those don't revolve around this game or really Mafia at all.

[Shad_]

"I'm not 100% sold on you yet, but my suspicion is growing with your line of questioning here. I still want to lynch Tab because she's probably a wolf like 9/10 times with her performance and Zander NK and your seemingly resistance to that is unnerving." ~~ Seems like a step back from what initially struck me as full commitment.  I dunno if I should be bothered by it or not.  I tend to expect town!AJ to never let go after he's sunk his teeth in.

 

"There were a few times during D1 when you said things like "I'm sussing AJ but I agree with his suspects so that's probably a good sign" that would fall into this category because it's a dynamic we often experience as villagers together." ~~ And you've seen me say things like this in games where you know I was town, so it seems like an entirely null matter.

 

"I simply don't understand what you were hoping to accomplish by voting Snow when I expressed desire to switch to Tab, and then fake voting Tab only to settle on no one in the end. THAT, specifically, I don't see a town!Shad doing." ~~You're bringing up meta now, so: do you see scum!Shad doing it?  Why?  I recognize that you probably don't understand why I did what I did as either alignment.  I find it odd that you're leaping to a scum read from it when you know I'm prone to gamble either way.

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

Pretty much if Tab is a wolf that'll lock Shad in for me.

 

He clears quite a few people he's been toying with like Nolder/NotBob

 

The last one should be Thane or one of Pizza/BFG

 

I'm home now.  I'm extremely curious about this statement.  Could you explain what you mean here, AJ?

 

Yes. I feel like your line of questioning hasn't been very productive to the other all solving of this game.

 

You strung Nolder along for pages nitpicking points and still remain wishy washy on your opinion of him.

You did similarly with NotBob asking loaded type questions with expected answers.

 

It looks like busy work, to put it simply.

 

 

hmm...  There was an instance where I sort of spoon fed NotBob an answer.  I don't hate that you noticed that.  I still like that NotBob got around to giving that answer though, because he seemed to really not be tracking what I was asking him.

 

I'm not sold on your Nolder comments though.  I was pretty explicit on my thoughts about him, and I am pretty wishy-wash about him for reasons that I think I laid out well enough.  Do you expect town!Shad to necessarily walk away with a strong read one way or the other?

 

What the heck Shad? What is with all this non-committal language? Your not taking a strong stance on anything. You are sitting in the middle of the street and at this rate your going to get hit by a car.

 

 

It's something you'll learn from playing with me.  I will call out scummy things from people I'm town reading hard.  I will call out townie things from people I'm scum reading hard.  Sorry but, get used to it.  I want to be right, and that means continuing to weigh things as long as I can help it.

[Shad_]

Like even now I'm nervous about openly going full in on AJ and being wrong...

[Shad_]

I can drop a hefty bone if you like.  I'll hate myself if I'm wrong on AJ and didn't get to give it my all.

 

But frankly that scum QT quote he pulled up might be enough to push it over the edge.  It's not the sort of thing I expect town!AJ to do.  He fights on the front line.  He'll look back in a game to build a case, but I don't recall ever seeing him carefully prepare a deflection of a question like that.

[Lenlo]

This doesnt look like you weighing things though. That looks like you sitting the fence so you can go whatever way the wind blows. You can weight something and still say, this is scummy, this is towny. Instead you say "I dont hate this" or "I kinda like this". What do you like/hate about it? Is that scummy or towny? How much does it affect your over all read? Sorry, but no. Im tired of peoples "This is how I play get used to it" BS.

 

 

Like even now I'm nervous about openly going full in on AJ and being wrong...

So your afraid of following up on a scum lead? How do you operate at all? You will be wrong. Everyone is wrong sometimes, deal with it. It doesnt matter so long as you lynch wolves and win the game in the end.

[Shad_]

"I don't hate that you noticed" because it shows he was reading my posts carefully.

 

And yet on the other hand I kind of hate that he's been reading my posts carefully yet doesn't think I'm town for reasons beyond being a little freaked out by EoD.

[Lenlo]

I can drop a hefty bone if you like.  I'll hate myself if I'm wrong on AJ and didn't get to give it my all.

 

But frankly that scum QT quote he pulled up might be enough to push it over the edge.  It's not the sort of thing I expect town!AJ to do.  He fights on the front line.  He'll look back in a game to build a case, but I don't recall ever seeing him carefully prepare a deflection of a question like that.

Tell me flat out. Is AJ scum to you? Do you want him lynched? Y/N answer. That doesnt look carefully prepared. He didnt lead you into that, you asked him a question and he responsed with a question. Is that great, no, but it doesnt look prepared. As for front line he looks pretty front line right now. He is calling you on your crap, he isnt calling on outside help, he isnt letting someone else fight this battle for him.

 

Bold: Am I supposed to be grateful that your helping me solve the game? Alright my benevolent dictator.

[Andrej]

I tend to expect town!AJ to never let go after he's sunk his teeth in.

 

And you've seen me say things like this in games where you know I was town, so it seems like an entirely null matter.

 

You're bringing up meta now, so: do you see scum!Shad doing it?  Why?  I recognize that you probably don't understand why I did what I did as either alignment.  I find it odd that you're leaping to a scum read from it when you know I'm prone to gamble either way.

 

1) We'll call it a nibble for now then. If I'm correct with some of the subsurface maneuvering that I feel like are going on, you'll get the teeth.

 

2) Fair enough. Call it healthy paranoia on my end - I've learned my lesson playing against high level wolves who do that sort of thing.

 

3) If the motive was to save someone, absolutely. Gambling, yes. I've seen you make gutty calls in the past but you didn't even have a bet on this hand so I don't think your analogy applies.

[Lenlo]

"I don't hate that you noticed" because it shows he was reading my posts carefully.

 

And yet on the other hand I kind of hate that he's been reading my posts carefully yet doesn't think I'm town for reasons beyond being a little freaked out by EoD.

Seriously? You just laid down and started planking the fence. IS IT SCUMMY OR NOT. DECIDE.

[Shad_]

I think town!AJ tells me to quit playing games and explain wth I was up to at EoD.  I don't think he calls it scummy without engaging me and then prepares that deflection when I start questioning him.

[Lenlo]

Is AJ scum, Y/N?

[Lenlo]

Binary choice, 1 word response. Its so easy my 3 year old sister can say those words. She really likes no for some reason.