Ragnarok Game Thread - Game Over, Town Wins!

[Songstress]

I actually really dislike that Tina isn't voting me. The fact that she has me so far down on her list is bothering me. I haven't seen her to do anything in regards to discerning my alignment. It's like she just arbitrarily decided I'm scum. I'm not seeing her #solve. I love that she's seen nothing to change her mind, well I haven't had the chance to post anything of substance yet since end of day yesterday. She also failed to answer Key's question directed towards her regarding my calling her out as OMGUS. She's not circling back and following up.

 

Only person I've had time to ISO yet and it's not looking good. Tina, care to actually ask me questions that mean anything or follow up on the ones you have?

 

I really wish Leelou had more time to put into the game right now so I could decide how much weight to give this - I don't recall a lot of strong opinions from her on anyone but Tina and Pral (and CorKey) at this point.  

[Songstress]

 

 

ODIN, TOWN COP, HAS BEEN LYNCHED

 

FINAL VOTE COUNT

 

Ocicat (4) - Tina, Dice, Verbal, Pralaya

Pral (9) - Leelou, Ocicat, Sooh, Lenlo, WishLESTE, John Snow, Eldrick, Mish, Talya

Verbal (4) - Songstress, Sili, KeyBOOSE, Taborline

 

 

NIGHT HAS FALLEN. NIGHT ACTIONS ARE DUE BY NOON EASTERN ON WEDNESDAY (25 HOURS FROM NOW)

This is the last VC for Pral, updated with what we know.

 

Sadly not that telling. So I dunno why but I feel bad about the Verb train, if only because I think atleast 1 scum was following Cory there to stay on his good side/separate themselves from their team. (This is assuming Verbal is town which we have no guarantee of. Its just in my head for some reason)

 

For the Pral train WishLeste and Talya kinda catch my fancy as ones to look at today. 

 

Other peoples thoughts on who to look at?

 

 

Kind of not a fan of this post, especially seeing as how Len doesn't look to have taken these opinions expressed here into consideration in his WTL list.

 

The bolded seems to imply that he thinks Taborline is scum, since Tab is the only vote that FOLLOWED Cory (unless I need to reread EOD to find someone who voted Verb after Cory did and then switched off before the hammer fell).   

 

Tab, Wishleste and Talya aren't anywhere on his WTL list for today though, and Verb is even though he says here that Verb as town is "in his head" for some reason.

 

I know you've been trying harder than normal this game, Len, but it's starting to make me wonder if it's all for show.

[Songstress]

This is the interaction I was referencing. I cut out the imbedded quote bubbles. Each is responding to the previous one, except for the one about JS not expecting Sooh to respond so quickly.

 

 

Apparently he has played with me D1 thrice, not that I recall any specific interaction with him.

 

Anyway, JS, you are nit-picking. It feels like a witch hunt. The thread has no 'substance' therefore why would you expect anyone, even me, to have a lot of 'content'?

 

How else is content started except for people looking for it?

 

I didn't like your entry. I decided to vote and pressure you and see what follows. I'm satisfied with your reaction for the time being. Don't like it, rule 14. 

 

[unvote] [v]Sooh[/v]

 

 

Hi JS.

 

Anything you'd like to discuss?

 

Thoughts on the last two pages?

 

 

Also, I just fired up a game of league, so I might not be present for the next 30min or so. Wasn't expecting Sooh to get back to me that soon. 

 

It just sounds to me like a normal game start here on DM. I have played with Sili multiple times, and apart from that little hint of being antsy in his initial interaction with me I don't see anything out of the ordinary. Like Eldrick says though, it's something I want to keep an eye on. All of this initial stuff becomes more important to me later in the game when analyzing interactions with people. 

 

Reads as I want to sound like I'm saying stuff. 

 

What do you think of Sili's entry? Or Lenlo's? Or Ocicat's? Or Sili's thoughts on those entries? Or my thoughts on Sili's thoughts on those entries?

 

Give me some real content. Persuade me you're town. 

 

Wow. No. I am not reading stuff into early D1 interactions yet. I said what I have to say.

 

Well, when you're ready to be a useful, contributing member of the town, be sure to let us know. 

 

Sure. For now I think I'll stick to what I think actually might help town and have some real time interactions. 

 

For the record, posting thoughts inherently helps town. 

 

IIRC you don't like to post thoughts until you have flips, so this is pretty solidly on meta for you. [unvote]

 

Now I'm trying to figure out JS's perspective here.

JS voted Sooh. Then he didn't like the bolded. And then, after apparently not getting the result he wanted, he drops the line of questioning, calling it her meta.

 

Like this observation from Eldrick.

 

I really have a devil of a time reading him.  

[Songstress]

Tress, about your grid.

 

The point is moot now, but I was townreading Cory. I actually mentioned at one point he was a strong town read.

 

And according to your guidelines, Lenlo's read on me would be Red. He thinks I'm scum and has voted me.

 

Still working on collecting my own data, so I'm going to trust the rest is correct for now. Thank you for the work. It's very useful.

 

 

Also, for the majority of the game, I didn't have an issue with Pral. I was trying to figure out why other people did. I voted him for wanting to lynch himself.

 

The grid was for my own reference when trying to decide who to target, and I only posted it because Mish wanted to see it...  I hope to goodness nobody is planning to use it in casing someone else, without going back to verify the actual quotes.

 

Your input is noted, however.

[Lenlo]

 

 

 

ODIN, TOWN COP, HAS BEEN LYNCHED

 

FINAL VOTE COUNT

 

Ocicat (4) - Tina, Dice, Verbal, Pralaya

Pral (9) - Leelou, Ocicat, Sooh, Lenlo, WishLESTE, John Snow, Eldrick, Mish, Talya

Verbal (4) - Songstress, Sili, KeyBOOSE, Taborline

 

 

NIGHT HAS FALLEN. NIGHT ACTIONS ARE DUE BY NOON EASTERN ON WEDNESDAY (25 HOURS FROM NOW)

This is the last VC for Pral, updated with what we know.

 

Sadly not that telling. So I dunno why but I feel bad about the Verb train, if only because I think atleast 1 scum was following Cory there to stay on his good side/separate themselves from their team. (This is assuming Verbal is town which we have no guarantee of. Its just in my head for some reason)

 

For the Pral train WishLeste and Talya kinda catch my fancy as ones to look at today. 

 

Other peoples thoughts on who to look at?

 

 

Kind of not a fan of this post, especially seeing as how Len doesn't look to have taken these opinions expressed here into consideration in his WTL list.

 

The bolded seems to imply that he thinks Taborline is scum, since Tab is the only vote that FOLLOWED Cory (unless I need to reread EOD to find someone who voted Verb after Cory did and then switched off before the hammer fell).   

 

Tab, Wishleste and Talya aren't anywhere on his WTL list for today though, and Verb is even though he says here that Verb as town is "in his head" for some reason.

 

I know you've been trying harder than normal this game, Len, but it's starting to make me wonder if it's all for show.

 

I was (and still am) throwing ideas around. I really have no idea how to proceed atm, which is why im not voting or pushing anyone. Usually after a D1 lynch I just let other people argue, find one I like and hop on. But thats stupid/bad play.

 

And no I wasnt implying Tab, following was a poor choice of words. I meant I felt someone could be on that train at the time to appease/follow Cory who had been advocatin against Verb for awhile there.

[Songstress]

Oci isnt a wolf so i hate his wagon. Town needs to stop being tilted by bad players or we will lose.

 

 

 

I'm also curious why Wish is on your list. She's been a controversial read.

Celeste and wish are different from last game. Their tone is town. Their content is town. So what one of them isnt 100% here. Or they sometimes have footinmputh. Its normal. wth.

 

 

I don't understand the level of confidence in these reads tbh.

 

Nothing new for me not understanding Sili, though.

 

As convinced as Cory was that Sili is town, I'm not planning to move him off my town list any time soon... just... registering my confusion.

[Songstress]

 

 

 

 

ODIN, TOWN COP, HAS BEEN LYNCHED

 

FINAL VOTE COUNT

 

Ocicat (4) - Tina, Dice, Verbal, Pralaya

Pral (9) - Leelou, Ocicat, Sooh, Lenlo, WishLESTE, John Snow, Eldrick, Mish, Talya

Verbal (4) - Songstress, Sili, KeyBOOSE, Taborline

 

 

NIGHT HAS FALLEN. NIGHT ACTIONS ARE DUE BY NOON EASTERN ON WEDNESDAY (25 HOURS FROM NOW)

This is the last VC for Pral, updated with what we know.

 

Sadly not that telling. So I dunno why but I feel bad about the Verb train, if only because I think atleast 1 scum was following Cory there to stay on his good side/separate themselves from their team. (This is assuming Verbal is town which we have no guarantee of. Its just in my head for some reason)

 

For the Pral train WishLeste and Talya kinda catch my fancy as ones to look at today. 

 

Other peoples thoughts on who to look at?

 

 

Kind of not a fan of this post, especially seeing as how Len doesn't look to have taken these opinions expressed here into consideration in his WTL list.

 

The bolded seems to imply that he thinks Taborline is scum, since Tab is the only vote that FOLLOWED Cory (unless I need to reread EOD to find someone who voted Verb after Cory did and then switched off before the hammer fell).   

 

Tab, Wishleste and Talya aren't anywhere on his WTL list for today though, and Verb is even though he says here that Verb as town is "in his head" for some reason.

 

I know you've been trying harder than normal this game, Len, but it's starting to make me wonder if it's all for show.

 

I was (and still am) throwing ideas around. I really have no idea how to proceed atm, which is why im not voting or pushing anyone. Usually after a D1 lynch I just let other people argue, find one I like and hop on. But thats stupid/bad play.

 

And no I wasnt implying Tab, following was a poor choice of words. I meant I felt someone could be on that train at the time to appease/follow Cory who had been advocatin against Verb for awhile there.

 

 

Then who were you implying?  Me or Sili?

[Sili Quirrels]

Mishs list is mine lmao

[Lenlo]

I meant I wasnt implying any one single person. Just that one of you 3, imo, have a decent chance to be scum.

 

Feel like your getting alittle hung up on this Tress.

[Songstress]

I meant I wasnt implying any one single person. Just that one of you 3, imo, have a decent chance to be scum.

 

Feel like your getting alittle hung up on this Tress.

 

Words mean things, Len.

 

You've been using a lot of them this game, and I'm trying to make sense of what you intend them to say.

[Lenlo]

 

I meant I wasnt implying any one single person. Just that one of you 3, imo, have a decent chance to be scum.

 

Feel like your getting alittle hung up on this Tress.

 

Words mean things, Len.

 

You've been using a lot of them this game, and I'm trying to make sense of what you intend them to say.

 

Yes I know words mean things. Thats how language works.

 

Aside from me being a sarcastic donkey though, I understand. Ill try and choose them more carefully so as to be clearer.

[Songstress]

Seriously though, mish and tress... why... what in god's name have they done?

 

You know SIli, just because you can't read me correctly, that doesn't mean nobody can.

 

And just because your towniness is obvious to you, that doesn't mean it should be as obvious to everyone else.  Don't act all offended when you're not at the top of someone's town reads.  

[Kivam]

Vote Count

 

 

Ocicat (1) - Tina

[bTina (1)[/b] - Leelou

Leelou (1) - John Snow

WishLeste (2) - Mish

Verbal (2) - WishLESTE, Eldrick

sooh (1) - Sili

 

8 to Lynch

 

Congrats, mish!

[Sili Quirrels]

 

Seriously though, mish and tress... why... what in god's name have they done?

 

You know SIli, just because you can't read me correctly, that doesn't mean nobody can.

 

And just because your towniness is obvious to you, that doesn't mean it should be as obvious to everyone else.  Don't act all offended when you're not at the top of someone's town reads.  

 

 

I was offended, but that wasn't the point I was making.

[Sili Quirrels]

Hmm

 

If no one is going to vote sooh with me then

[unvote]

[v]Wishleste[/v]

[Songstress]

I didn't like that Tress brought up about Cory's read, when hers was at the top. Cory is a damn fine player, but I would go with all his reads, but try and work things out for myself. Plus it was day one, and the chances of getting things right are lower than later in the game.

I was one of his top town reads, but Sili was actually at the top - the 4th one down, actually.  I get that you feel it was self-serving to post that considering that Cory was strongly convinced I was town, but I feel like your biggest problem with it is that you weren't in his greens.

[Sili Quirrels]

I didn't understand a few of cory's town reads, but I think I am starting to grasp what he saw.

[Songstress]

 

 

It's gonna take quite some time to put together the evidencecase on Wisheste being Loki, and I'm really tired and really wanna play sims. But in short this is the conclusion;

 

It's a matter of too much information. Like how before on DM those who were mafia tended to use the word "scum" most (town said mafia, mafia said scum). This has evened out a whole lot now that we've gotten more players from several different sites. But I went through all mentions of Loki. Most are very natural; a lot of them refer to Eld's original comment about wincon, several mentions were made at the beginning of this day when both me and Eld shared that there's a redirector mechanic. And several mentions are people saying "scum/Loki" (as in I don't think that would come from scum/Loki). But Wisheste's mentions seems forced and weird. And then there's a discussion they had with Cory about 3rd party hunting wich also seem very strained from their side. It's no secret I've thought they're not town for quite some time. But I can't see any interactions with other players that I can see as potentional teammates either. Most of their gameplay is following other's opinions, extreme sheeping of Cory for example, except for attacking those attacking them. Like Wish' read list, where she says on at least 2 occasions that "Cory reads this person as town so I do too", with one exception; me. Cory ended up placing me in his dark greens, but that they completly disregard. It's very contradictory and not the only contradictory thing they've done.

 

I think this is our best lynch today. There is no scenario in my mind where they are town. They are either Loki, wich is the highest possibility for me and if so we need to get rid of them to hopefully make our NA's work correctly), or mafia.

 

[v]Wisheste[/v]

I think this is just a cultural clash to be honest. I use the term scum for both mafia and 3p as it is the norm for my site. What was particularly weird of my mentions?

 

 

I just... That doesn't even have anything to do with what I said.

 

And I'm really, really sick of you just ignoring the things in my post that you can't defend against and just act as if it doesn't exist.

 

 

I just can't. I'm gonna go play sims.

 

 

Yeah, that "scum/mafia" bit wasn't nearly the most important point you made in that post.

 

Mish moving up in my greens.

[Songstress]

All right, back to current.  Now that I've commented on the D2 stuff that caught my eye, I'm going to mull over how it impacts the big picture for me and hash out a new reads list.  Probably tomorrow, though, because I need some time for the thoughts to percolate.

[Eldrick4221]

Vote Count

 

 

Ocicat (1) - Tina

[bTina (1)[/b] - Leelou

Leelou (1) - John Snow

WishLeste (2) - Mish

Verbal (2) - WishLESTE, Eldrick

sooh (1) - Sili

 

8 to Lynch

 

Congrats, mish!

I love how you just ignore the broken tag.

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

Tress, about your grid.

 

The point is moot now, but I was townreading Cory. I actually mentioned at one point he was a strong town read.

 

And according to your guidelines, Lenlo's read on me would be Red. He thinks I'm scum and has voted me.

 

Still working on collecting my own data, so I'm going to trust the rest is correct for now. Thank you for the work. It's very useful.

Also, for the majority of the game, I didn't have an issue with Pral. I was trying to figure out why other people did. I voted him for wanting to lynch himself.

The grid was for my own reference when trying to decide who to target, and I only posted it because Mish wanted to see it... I hope to goodness nobody is planning to use it in casing someone else, without going back to verify the actual quotes.

 

Your input is noted, however.

I don't expect people to use your info for their own casing. That wasn't my point. I noticed your facts were wrong. As I said, I'm collecting the same information for my own review. I just wanted your info to be accurate.

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

 

I think that it's entirely possible that there are roles that don't return results.

 

The OP says:

If your role is one which would normally return a result (Player X is town, Player X visited Player Y, Player X was visited by Player Y, Player X and Player Y are having a torrid affair ... whatever), you will receive that result as usual at the start of the next day, unless another player's action interferes with that. You will not receive any other notification (no "action failed" or "no effect" etc.).

 

That means the following options are viable for the people who didn't return results:

1. Their actions failed.

2. Their roles don't return results. (This is what I think my role is)

3. They don't have a power? (can @Kivam answer this question? Is this even a possibility?)

Yooooo

What do you guys think about this?

And the following:

As for a redirect ability, I think that it would have to be a role that didn't return results. And since none of us know our roles, and we only could submit one name to target with our NA, it is probably a random redirect ability.

 

Either player chooses a target and any actions that the target takes are randomly redirected,

Any actions that target the target are randomly redirected,

Just a nexus who doesn't even have a choice either way,

Or a random action is redirected to the target selected.

 

Those are the possibilities I can think of.

There is literally no way for us to know what Kivam chose to do here - the only person who may have a clue is Loki, if they had their role explained to them in detail.

 

I would be very surprised if there was a character other than Loki with any redirect ability, though. Because we're only submitting one name, and Loki's interference is already enough chaos, I can't see it as likely for anyone to have an uncontrollable redirect. If we find and eliminate Loki, and actions are still returning unexpected results, we can infer from that.

 

Again, though, this is setup speculation that is not helpful in finding scum.

I actually asked Kivam about this. If our role could have multiple targets. His response was PAFO. Which is why I think one that did would fail if you don't submit both.

[Eldrick4221]

Hmm

 

If no one is going to vote sooh with me then

[unvote]

[v]Wishleste[/v]

People have made some compelling cases about her, seemingly independent of each other, so she does deserve more scrutiny. She isn't playing as strongly as I'm used to town!Sooh being.

[Eldrick4221]

Yay for getting paid to poop. Time to get back to work, though.

[Songstress]

 

 

Tress, about your grid.

 

The point is moot now, but I was townreading Cory. I actually mentioned at one point he was a strong town read.

 

And according to your guidelines, Lenlo's read on me would be Red. He thinks I'm scum and has voted me.

 

Still working on collecting my own data, so I'm going to trust the rest is correct for now. Thank you for the work. It's very useful.

Also, for the majority of the game, I didn't have an issue with Pral. I was trying to figure out why other people did. I voted him for wanting to lynch himself.

The grid was for my own reference when trying to decide who to target, and I only posted it because Mish wanted to see it... I hope to goodness nobody is planning to use it in casing someone else, without going back to verify the actual quotes.

 

Your input is noted, however.

I don't expect people to use your info for their own casing. That wasn't my point. I noticed your facts were wrong. As I said, I'm collecting the same information for my own review. I just wanted your info to be accurate.

 

 

Does it bother you so badly that a chart I threw together to help myself figure out who I wanted to target with my hypothetical night action does not perfectly represent your stated views of two dead townies?  Or that Lenlo actually voted you?  If it comes to casing, correct any misrepresentations you may find, by all means, but the accuracy of my chart really shouldn't be that big of a deal.