Ragnarok Game Thread - Game Over, Town Wins!

[Songstress]

Try to take an objective posts on his posts after daybreak, and see if you can't see what I saw. They are too spontaneous to come from mafia; mafia would run to their QT and discuss this. And Loki himself wouldn't have wanted to help town solve their confusion about roles, he would want them in the dark as little as possible. I can see no gain for either mafia or Loki to make those posts, and thus I say town.

 

Eh, Eldrick tends to say whatever comes to mind in the game thread regardless of his alignment, whether it's a good idea or not.  Spontaneous doesn't infer town to me in his case - there are some who hold their thoughts closer I'd be more likely to consider it as meaning something with regard to alignment.

 

Definitely agree on the Loki thing, I don't see him being quite as eager to add to this conversation if he's the source of the role/target confusion... and there would be a definite reason for him to hold that close to the vest as Loki... but as mafia, the gain would be town cred, which he's gotten.  I had him as possible mafia on D1, and need to look at the big picture again to see if I still think it's likely... but he's not my highest priority at this point.  Just wanted to put that out there while I was thinking of it.

 

The whole conversation about the night actions surrounding struck me as a little awkward when I first read it - not as much on second read, but I wanted to bookmark it for mental reference.

[Songstress]

Yes I have. Im used to you being more analytical and have heavier reasons behind your reads. It seems very shallow.

 

What do you think of my Wisheste-theory?

 

 

Hah, yeah, I can see that... fwiw, I don't spend a lot of time on D1 reads, because i'm very unsure of myself where most people are concerned... with the exception of people like Dice who I'm confident I can read well, I'm very wishy washy and fence-sitty D1, and I didn't finish my re-read of D1 like I'd hoped to. A lot of my thoughts were gut impressions.   Once we have some definite information with flips, my thoughts usually become much more concrete.

 

As for what I was looking at when I added my own reads to the table... with Pral flipping town, I kind of kicked myself for even putting him in my oranges - I was very wary of Cory's push on him, but some people I wasn't sold on were defending him. I wasn't prepared to flat out tinfoil on Cory just then so I was second guessing my own neutralish opinion of Pral.  

 

I've been quite a bit uncomfortable with Wishleste since D2 started, I need to look at the specifics on your theory again but as of right now I consider them a pretty good candidate for today's lynch.  Will get to more posts from this day phase shortly and I'll make a point of responding then.

[Sili Quirrels]

Any thoughts on taborline?

 

And if eldrick is loki hes been thinking about gambits foir days before start of game.

[Songstress]

Oh can at her of you think who might want Dice dead? Seems an odd choice to me

 

We only had two deaths, and Dice flipped vigilante - I can't imagine any world in which Dice would have been the mafia kill over a town CorKey, so I'm guessing Loki's interference somehow bounced it back to him.

 

I would bet dollars to donuts that mafia did actually target CorKey, though.  They were a universal town read, with the exception of Tab, who said she ALMOST listed them as town but left them in the grays because Cory struck her as wild or something.  (This takes into consideration Eldrick's correction to my chart, which I'll get to shortly.)  I would actually be shocked if we found out after the game that mafia intended their kill for someone else - this probably means their kill is immune to Loki's interference (which I guess makes sense, so it can't be randomly redirected to one of the mafia team).

[Songstress]

Any thoughts on taborline?

 

 

Are you asking me or Mish? 

[Sili Quirrels]

Both

[Songstress]

 

Oh can at her of you think who might want Dice dead? Seems an odd choice to me

 

The kills makes me lean towards scenario A. Dice was the vig so another townie didn't kill him, and he seems a strange choice for mafia or Loki (if Loki is an SK. I personally think he's a survivor, or possibly a cult leader, but that's only a 5% possibility in my mind). I don't think Dice as vig would've killed CoryKey either (I know he wouldn't know he was a vig, but I think with a character like Thor he would've been careful targeting anyone he thought town). So, odds are both the mafia NK target and Dice's vig target got randomly shuffled.

 

I'm not sure we are allowed to say who we targeted. My result had weird limitations on what was allowed to be said.

 

Ask Kiv if you are unsure. Punishment is modkill if you say more than you're allowed to after all.

 

 

 

Oh. 0% chance loki is cult leader. Wincon doesn't fit.

 

 

 

Oh. 0% chance loki is cult leader. Wincon doesn't fit.

 

True. But I'm paranoid by nature, so it'll still be a possibility in my mind. But it's excedingly small possibility.

 

 

See my later conversation with Wish on this issue... I was initially irked that Mish brought the subject up, but she did drop it very quickly, unlike Wish.  Insisting on leaving Loki as cult leader as even a small possibility makes no sense to me, though, even when reminded of the win condition.  

[Songstress]

Both

 

I was satisfied the the amount of effort Tab was putting into the game on D1 - I'll keep an eye out for D2 as I'm reading back through, and I'll probably consider her place as part of the big picture depending on how confident I am in other town reads.  She may get pushed lower in the POE if I don't see a lot that I liked from her.

[Sili Quirrels]

Tress why did u spend a large chunk of d1 disinterested? Or possibly dissatisfied. As i recall it was two or three days before you made any game related content.

 

And sometimes when someone derides another it comes from a place of stress

[Songstress]

Not going to bother quoting any of it, because it went on far too long, and I couldn't stop myself from continuing to respond at the time so that probably didn't help, but even after Eldrick shot down Mish's suggestion that Loki could be a potential cult leader, Wish bringing it back up and fighting for that potential really set my teeth on edge.

 

I honestly don't know if she would have done that if she actually was Loki, but that kind of fearmongering/setup speculation that distracts from scumhunting is worth considering as antitown IMO.

[Songstress]

Tress why did u spend a large chunk of d1 disinterested? Or possibly dissatisfied. As i recall it was two or three days before you made any game related content.

 

And sometimes when someone derides another it comes from a place of stress

 

I wouldn't characterize it as disinterested, nor would i characterize it as unusual for me.

 

I started out trying to make game related content, and it devolved into you insulting me, so I backed out and stopped posting and watched for something else I had definite opinions about.

 

I frequently don't post much D1 (and don't post much at all compared to many of you), because I don't know what to say early game.  I read everything, I think about it, consider what people could be trying to accomplish, try to round out the big picture in my head, and later in D1 I will get my impressions down.  It's fairly rare for me to jump in to gameplay early.

[Songstress]

 As Tress and Eld pointed out, the wincon doesn't match with cult. I'm sorry I mentioned it, I shouldn't have. It's distracting.

 

 

Kind of forgot this part... it did make me feel better about Mish, because she realized it was a distraction (and because she dropped the discussion).

[Sili Quirrels]

Hold on. I did not insult you.

[Songstress]

 

I wanna hear from other people before I take action.

 

But FoS Lenlo

 

Why should he know if he got nothing back from Kiv. I didn't know either, but then I refused to submit a name.

 

This kind of struck me as strange.

 

Why refuse to submit a name?

 

I mean, as i mentioned earlier, I absolutely despise being vigilante, and thought based on my character there might be a decent chance I was, but I knew I'd never have a clue whether I even had a role - much less what role - if I didn't try to submit and see what result I got.

[Songstress]

Hold on. I did not insult you.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, was passive aggressive supposed to be a compliment?

[Songstress]

 

I think that it's entirely possible that there are roles that don't return results.

 

The OP says:

If your role is one which would normally return a result (Player X is town, Player X visited Player Y, Player X was visited by Player Y, Player X and Player Y are having a torrid affair ... whatever), you will receive that result as usual at the start of the next day, unless another player's action interferes with that.  You will not receive any other notification (no "action failed" or "no effect" etc.).

 

That means the following options are viable for the people who didn't return results:

1. Their actions failed.

2. Their roles don't return results. (This is what I think my role is)

3. They don't have a power? (can @Kivam answer this question? Is this even a possibility?)

Yooooo

What do you guys think about this?

And the following:

 

As for a redirect ability, I think that it would have to be a role that didn't return results. And since none of us know our roles, and we only could submit one name to target with our NA, it is probably a random redirect ability.

 

Either player chooses a target and any actions that the target takes are randomly redirected,

Any actions that target the target are randomly redirected,

Just a nexus who doesn't even have a choice either way,

Or a random action is redirected to the target selected.

 

Those are the possibilities I can think of.

 

 

There is literally no way for us to know what Kivam chose to do here - the only person who may have a clue is Loki, if they had their role explained to them in detail.

 

I would be very surprised if there was a character other than Loki with any redirect ability, though.  Because we're only submitting one name, and Loki's interference is already enough chaos, I can't see it as likely for anyone to have an uncontrollable redirect.  If we find and eliminate Loki, and actions are still returning unexpected results, we can infer from that.

 

Again, though, this is setup speculation that is not helpful in finding scum.

[Songstress]

I'm thinking that second kill could be anything a one shot kill, Loki maybe being an SK, or a vig. I think we should also relook at Corys read list to see if someone on his scum list did this.

 

Not a fan of this post.    More throwing speculation out there from the other half of the hydra... 

 

The suggestion to look at Cory's read list to "see if someone on his scum list did this" makes no sense to me either.  "Oh, Verb was the other person Cory had listed as scum!  Clearly he was one of the shots that  could have been anything according to my own speculation!"

 

(Sarcasm.  I haz it.)

[Songstress]

As an aside, reading through, I was not and am still not a fan of the sharing who did and did not get results on night actions.  Yes, Cop, Doc and Vig are already dead.  We don't know how many more PRs town may have, and if any remain who will not get results back.  Mish and Eldrick sharing the fact that they got results that were for people other than who they targeted was useful information.  Sharing what type of result they got felt like more information than we actually needed, and the more people who state whether they did or did not get a result, the easier it will be for mafia to decide who to shoot.

 

There may be a chance the actual roles are scrambled due to Loki's presence and not just the targeting - as suggested earlier - and that leaves us some hope of keeping PRs alive, but I'd suggest that we not get into this on D2.  Target who you're going to target, but if you get a result for a different role than you were expecting, or no result, it's probably better not to share.  In a normal game, the town tracker isn't going to say "Hey guys, I'm the tracker but I'm not allowed to tell you who I tracked or who they visited", and expect to live through the night.   Just sayin'.

[Songstress]

* not get into this on D3, I mean.  

[michellem]

Those posts are amongst the things that made me think they are Loki, Tress. They focus so much on him. There's a word for this but I can't remember it. When you know something you can't share it's so at the front of your mind you can't help but talk about it. I also get the impression of "oh look we gotta find Loki guyz cause he might be really bad news like cult and stuff (but I bring this up so of course I can't be Loki lol nope)"

 

Ok seriously going to bed. I struggle to put together coherent sentences. But before I go...

 

everyone, top three WTL candidates D2 + reasons. Refusal to do so will mark you as anti town. Ok tnx.

 

Mine:

1. Wisheste, I think they are Loki.

2. Sooh, not contributing/floating by and contradicting statements.

3. Verb, for not doing anything all week and being extremely unhelpful. Feels like he's floating on his reputation (not the right word. Can't remember the right word. Sorta like "girth" but different. Uhm)

 

(Note: I do not think Verb and Sooh are mafia together at this point. But I'm pretty sure one of them is.)

 

GOODNIGHT

[Songstress]

I would have thought there would be few going for me today..

 

Why?  *curious*

[Lenlo]

everyone, top three WTL candidates D2 + reasons. Refusal to do so will mark you as anti town. Ok tnx.

 

Ive never liked these sort of blanket DO WHAT I SAY OR I WILL LYNCH YOU RAAAAAWR posts.

[Songstress]

 

everyone, top three WTL candidates D2 + reasons. Refusal to do so will mark you as anti town. Ok tnx.

 

Ive never liked these sort of blanket DO WHAT I SAY OR I WILL LYNCH YOU RAAAAAWR posts.

 

 

You're just a rebel.

 

Do what's good for town, Len.  Let us see inside your brain.  (I know, it's not pretty.  )

 

I haven't formed my full thoughts yet, but I should have my WTL list figured out before Kiv sets the deadline.

[Lenlo]

GIVE ME A READS LIST OR YOUR NOT YOWN RAAAWR

 

VOTE AND LYNCH ELDRICK OR YOUR NOT TOWN RAAAWR

 

WATCH ALL THE MADEA MOVIES OR YOU ARE NOT TOWN RAAAAAWR

 

 

 

 

everyone, top three WTL candidates D2 + reasons. Refusal to do so will mark you as anti town. Ok tnx.
 

Ive never liked these sort of blanket DO WHAT I SAY OR I WILL LYNCH YOU RAAAAAWR posts.

 

 

You're just a rebel.

 

Do what's good for town, Len.  Let us see inside your brain.  (I know, it's not pretty.   )

Hey! My brain is beautiful.

[Lenlo]

Srs though, 

 

Eldrick - Dont like his content, dont think hes actually trying to solve. Feel like hes just doing things to look good and all around think hes bad ju-ju

 

Tina/Verb - Neither has really given alot of content this game and one feels like they are actively avoiding engaging me. Id be fine with either one, though I missed most of the Verb talk earlier

 

Ocicat maybe? I really dont know for this last one. Ive been to tunneled on Eld lately that I have been really bad about keeping up with what other people have done. Id have to go and reread or rehear peoples cases on him.