[Basic/Standard] A Wind in the Door Mafia - GAME OVER, TOWN WINS

[Cory Caboose]

 

 

Cop out. Try again.

 

LOL

 

"CORY, WHAT PART OF OUR COMPLETE LACK OF CONTENT WORRIED YOU THE MOST AT THIS POINT?"

 

"THE FACT THAT YOU HAD A COMPLETE LACK OF CONTENT."

 

So you maintain that your posting that our slot was "a problem" 17 minutes after my first post of the game was just... coincidence? This is what I want to know.

 

 

There is a possibility that seeing your username reminded me that your slot was still in my null pile despite it containing one person I'm confident in reading and another I think I'm decent in reading and that's why I brought it up.

 

I don't remember exactly what provoked it. I just sort of say what comes to my mind - this is nothing new about me.

[Yates]

There is a possibility that seeing your username reminded me that your slot was still in my null pile despite it containing one person I'm confident in reading and another I think I'm decent in reading and that's why I brought it up.

Okay. I need to step away for a bit but my question to you now is this; is your current argument that you typically feel like "null" slots need "deathening?"

[Cory Caboose]

 

There is a possibility that seeing your username reminded me that your slot was still in my null pile despite it containing one person I'm confident in reading and another I think I'm decent in reading and that's why I brought it up.

Okay. I need to step away for a bit but my question to you now is this; is your current argument that you typically feel like "null" slots need "deathening?"

 

 

Considering at the time I had around 4-5 villages and a LOLTOM out of 11 possible slots and two very thin Mafia reads... yeah, absolutely.

 

If nothing else, it's an encouragement to start posting - you have, and you know what I think of your content.

 

But that's the whole point of the POE - if you are in it, I'm pretty okay with your slot becoming deadified. Especially in a small game where I think we have some obvious villagers.

[jmm]

Blue = 99.99% a villager

Green = Very likely a villager

Light Green = Slightly more likely to be a villager

Purple = LOL TOMTHETOM

Grey = I UNNO MANG

Orange = Slightly more likely to be Mafia than town

Red = Very likely Mafia

 

The sword itself has many meanings and interpretations. It could be my way of saying "Right on, brother!" or my way of saying "I want to cut you into little pieces and spread them over my lawn" or even "I like the way you look in red, but I don't really think you can pull off that dress".  I think in this case it's all of the above.

Thanks for the clarification and humor, Cory.  Appreesh. 

 

Except plz don't cut the dress.  

[jmm]

 

All that said, I stand by my previous statement: if you want a specific question answered, I'll probably give it to you.  Just be reasonable about it.

I don't think I was being unreasonable. I am genuinely curious as to how you came to your stated conclusion given the post in question and [and this is the important part] subsequent play. I just showed you her first post. It has a time stamp. Then I linked to her second post, which not only suggests she was being truthful in her initial post [which you are questioning] but also demonstrates a "game solve" mindset. Do you disagree with my interpretation of these events?

 

Also, since I'd like to get you talking about something besides my hydra partner, I'm curious as to your take on Cory's case on our slot. This might help me since you are the only other person I'm aware of that has legitimately claimed to have found our slot suspect.

 

Please and thank you.

 

 

I don't think you were being unreasonable necessarily - the implied "you" was more the plural "you" - the players as a whole.  

 

And as I said before, I'm purely suspicious of her first post - it doesn't mean I think you're scum for sure.  However, I think more effort can be given on a first post than just "hi".  It still feels like a cop-out.  I don't doubt she had to go to bed, but to type a little bit more takes a few seconds and can be quite beneficial for clarification purposes. 

 

Cory has more aggressive reads than most, but he seems to be pretty experienced as well.  Perhaps he is just playing aggressively at this early stage because he has a real hunch (he honestly might) or perhaps it is just play style (probably), but the fact I haven't switched my vote indicates I don't share the same aggressive indications.  I may share his suspicion, but not enough yet to act on it. 

[Cory Caboose]

I would like as many people as possible to weigh in on me and Yates.

[Yates]

Don't call it an "emofest" - it's a "Cory thinks your Mafia and wants to see you lynched".

 

Chalking it up to the fact that I'm known for having a more "emotional" playstyle and hoping that causes people to consider my read less is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about where I don't think this attitude at all comes from Town!Yates.

You would have a valid point if I didn't highlight your emo attack. The bolded statement was clearly not written to introduce new information/logic. It was an attempt to turn the argument into an emotional argument that would do nothing to further the game. So I'm choosing not to engage in that sort of gameplay for reasons already stated numerous times. Also, I think this whole argument makes it pretty clear that I'm focusing on your logic and not just the fact that you have an "emotionl playstyle." So that's a misrepresentation at best.

 

But that's the whole point of the POE - if you are in it, I'm pretty okay with your slot becoming deadified. Especially in a small game where I think we have some obvious villagers.

Well then. I guess this is where we fundamentally disagree. I like to resolve my null slots rather than advocate just killing them willey nilley because I like to avoid killing Townies.

 

I'm actually okay with letting others weigh in just on what we have here. I think a polarizing event like this can prove fruitful later in the game. Did you want me to continue responding to your earlier post or just let others weigh in on what's out there so far? I'm cool either way.

[Cory Caboose]

Do whatever you like - just know that it's extremely likely I'm going to get you lynched today.

[Yates]

Do whatever you like - just know that it's extremely likely I'm going to get you lynched today.

Doubtful. We'll see.

 

I think you only made two or three more "points" anyway so I guess I'll just address them.

[Yates]

I'm going to quote the full text of your "overshow" comment because you are kind of all over the place on this one and try to make some sense of it...

 

Okay. I retract my question from above. Here you clearly admit to Hally being a slank poster regardless of alignment. So you see why you claiming you suddenly considered Hally "a problem" for "slanking" [and really - it's the weekend so is she even REALLY slanking?] might ping for me/require further investigation/explanation?

 

This seems like a blatant overshow. Town!Yates will correct himself if he thinks he's wrong - but he rarely does - IE he feels he has the right to 180 (which he does). Now, he READ my entire post and decided to debate it point-by-point, but above this is 3-4 sentences basically accusing me of not thinking Hallia has slanking patterns and trying to make an FoS about it before immediately abandoning it. This is all the EXACT DEFINITION OF JUST ADDING FLUFF AND "MINDSET" without it actually accomplish anything. He's trying to explain his thought process clunkily and finishes with a "well, can you see now why I thought x was suspicious?" - more pandering and less of anything trying to assess me.

 

First of all, I'm obviously not "correcting" myself here. And you know that or you wouldn't have characterized this as an "overshow" since I wouldn't be making a "show" of a correction. So nothing you say about 180's or how I handle them is relevant.

 

Next, you accuse me of "abandoning" my belief that I think you were calling Hally scummy for not posting. How on earth did you come to that conclusion when my "overshow" clearly demonstrates that I know YOU know better and that Hally would slank as either alignment thus PROVING MY POINT??? It's mind boggling. Seriously.

 

There's no "pandering" here. I have clearly defeated your argument by illustrating in YOUR OWN WORDS by QUOTING YOU that YOU don't even believe your argument. That's what made it an OVERSHOW, remember? Geez.

[Cory Caboose]

I would say considering your content so far and what I look for in your play as a villager - there is a 0% chance that you are going to change my mind.

 

So I'd recommend you pander to the crowd - except that's already been what you are doing in absence of actually engaging me in a way that isn't just for show. So you're a step ahead of me on that one.

[Cory Caboose]

With that said, you act as if Hally not posting a lot is suddenly something scummy for her. Would you disagree with my assertion that Hally doesn't post all that much REGARDLESS of alignment?

Let's call a spade a spade. The timing of your post didn't happen in a vacuum. You didn't find her scummy until I popped in reminding you that I was part of her hydra. Hence, your Des reference from earlier being apt. [For those of you that don't know, Des and I had a string of like 8 or 9 games in a row where he tunneled on me regardless of his alignment.]

 

Okay. I retract my question from above. Here you clearly admit to Hally being a slank poster regardless of alignment. So you see why you claiming you suddenly considered Hally "a problem" for "slanking" [and really - it's the weekend so is she even REALLY slanking?] might ping for me/require further investigation/explanation?

 

 

> CORY ARE YOU DISAGREEING THAT HALLIA DOESN'T SLANK POST?

 

> SINCE YOU DIDN'T FIND HER SCUMMY

> NEVERMIND, I RETRACT THAT QUESTION. YOU CLEARLY ADMIT TO IT.

 

I also really enjoy "you clearly admit to..." as language being used in this

 

I've already stated that Hallia slanking is well within her wolf range. She has done it as a villager, too. She is more likely to stay there as a wolf. It's been four days; I would assume she'd enjoy playing a game with me as we haven't played together in awhile. She has exactly ONE positive thing going her way when I'd usually have more if she were active.

What is your point? What was the point of saying any of this? Especially asking a question you'd know I'd already have an answer for as YOU TALK ABOUT MY ANSWER IN THE NEXT SEGMENT OF YOUR POST.

 

It's an overshow.

[Cory Caboose]

The issue is that you are saying I don't believe my argument.

 

The problem was I never argued that and it should be apparent from your reading that "Hallia lurking makes her scum!" is nothing I have ever said or argued.

 

My sole point was "WHY WOULD YOU ASK A QUESTION YOU THOUGHT WAS MEANINGFUL, SEE IT ANSWERED, AND THEN RETRACT IT IN THE SAME POST?" 

 

That's the overshow. 

[Cory Caboose]

Stop exerting so much energy defending yourself from my "misrepresentations" and either A) make a case that I'm scum based on your [reasons and observations] or B) find a player who is a wolf.

 

Arguing semantics gets us nowhere and you don't even seem to have a purpose besides defending yourself.

 

Find a wolf.

[Yates]

That game is history and if you think I care about the result at this point you'd be mistaken; I have the emotional memory of a goldfish and that feels like years ago. Once again, rather than assess me, you choose to point to why MY ASSESSMENT MUST HAVE FAKE JUSTIFICATION. Which would be an easy sell - if you thought I was Mafia.

Okay. Maybe I'm mistaken. Remains to be seen. What I *DO* know is:

1. that you hadn't really engaged Hally all game.

2. Hally made some pretty decent content posts - FOR HALLY.

3. She went quiet for ~9 hours on a Friday night.

4. I posted that I was entering the game.

5. 17 minutes later you claim our slot needs "deadening."

6. And now you are claiming that we needed "deadening" because we were in your null list.

 

The part I've been leaving out this whole time is that Hally had 8 posts at the time you made that statement. And while others like Lenlo/Dawn and Pral had fewer posts, Hally was the one you decided needed "deadening?" THIS is why I think your narrative rings as hollow. There's something else at play and you are beating around the bush and not actually being truthful about your motivation. That leaves me to my imaginations as to why you decided to single her out - especially given my impression that you should have tools at your disposal for reading her as she DOES begin to contribute [you know - a whole hydra QT].

 

So there you go. Cards on the table; I don't believe you when you claim that

[Yates]

The problem was I never argued that and it should be apparent from your reading that "Hallia lurking makes her scum!" is nothing I have ever said or argued.

WHAT?

 

When you say things like "I found you scummy for complete lack of content" in posts like this:

 

Cop out. Try again.

 

LOL

 

"CORY, WHAT PART OF OUR COMPLETE LACK OF CONTENT WORRIED YOU THE MOST AT THIS POINT?"

 

"THE FACT THAT YOU HAD A COMPLETE LACK OF CONTENT."

 

How else am I supposed to take it?? What's the difference between a "complete lack of content" and "slanking?"

 

Also, would you agree that "slanking" is no longer a concern for this slot?

[Cory Caboose]

Show me Hallia's meaningful content. AFAICT all she did was drop in and say "Tommy and Cory are villagery and csarmi is null." I didn't see ANYTHING besides this of any meaning to the game.

 

If this'll get her in the game, bravo. As for me singling her out - I've probably pushed several people today IIRC. I say a lot of things. You flipping out over "Hallia/Yates is a slot that needs resolution" is a terrible look for you.

 

AND LOL @ "YOU HAVE THE TOOLS FOR READING HER! YOU HAVE A QT AS SCUM WITH HER!" - that helps a person like me ZERO. I can already PROBABLY READ HALLIA WELL, BUT SHE HASN'T BEEN IN THE GAME.

WHY YOU ARE ASKING ME TO MAKE AN ASSESSMENT ON [iNVISIBLE CONTENT] AND THEN SAYING IT RINGS HOLLOW WHEN I DON'T HAVE ANY GOOD LEADS ABOUT IT IS LITERALLY UNBELIEVABLE.

 

I hope to God you are Mafia because you can't be THIS BAD as a villager. It would DEPRESS ME.

[Cory Caboose]

Also, would you agree that "slanking" is no longer a concern for this slot?

 

Hallia's slanking is still probably a mild concern.

 

Your posting is a MAJOR concern.

[Yates]

Stop exerting so much energy defending yourself from my "misrepresentations" and either A) make a case that I'm scum based on your [reasons and observations] or B) find a player who is a wolf.

I feel like resolving your slot is going to help me determine if you are a wolf or not. So... thanks for the advice but that's what I'm doing?

 

And responding to your misrepresentations ensures that they are addressed up front, in public, and by the people involved in case it becomes important at some point later in the game.

[Yates]

I say a lot of things. You flipping out over "Hallia/Yates is a slot that needs resolution" is a terrible look for you.

LOL.

 

But that's not what you said, is it? What did you say?

 

A problem that might require deathening

Call this a semantic argument all you want but the point remains that wanting someone DEAD and wanting RESOLUTION are two COMPLETELY different things.

[Cory Caboose]

You are barely doing anything to assess me, just making dumb arguments that have no merit whatsoever because I said "Hallia/Yates slot needs resolution" when after 3-4 days I had almost NOTHING on my notepad for either of you.

 

Why did you go so chickenshit afraid and turtle-y when I said that? Why do you seem SO THREATENED?

 

Apparently my arguments are all misrepresentations or trite or lies or a false narrative, though your assessment why has basically been circular logic of:

"WHY DID YOU THINK HALLIA WAS A WOLF FOR NOT POSTING?"

 

"I DIDN'T - I EXPRESSED DESIRE FOR THAT SLOT TO BE RESOLVED BECAUSE IT CONTAINED TWO NULL PLAYERS WHO AREN'T PROVIDING CONTENT AND THAT'S SOMETHING SCUM HAVE HID BEHIND BEFORE"

"BUT IT'S NOT WOLFY FOR HALLIA TO NOT POST!"

"I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS!"

"A-HA, YOU CONTRADICTED YOURSELF! YOU JUST SAID IT WASN'T BUT YOU CLEARLY DID BECAUSE I ACCUSED YOU OF DOING IT!"

 

That's literally your entire ARGUMENT, the entire thing you are DEFENDING YOURSELF FROM, and the ENTIRE ARGUMENT YOU ARE ATTACKING ME FOR.

 

That's THE WHOLE THING.

[Cory Caboose]

 

I say a lot of things. You flipping out over "Hallia/Yates is a slot that needs resolution" is a terrible look for you.

LOL.

 

But that's not what you said, is it? What did you say?

 

A problem that might require deathening

Call this a semantic argument all you want but the point remains that wanting someone DEAD and wanting RESOLUTION are two COMPLETELY different things.

 

 

JUST BECAUSE YOU OPEN WITH "CALL THIS A SEMANTIC ARGUMENT ALL YOU WANT" DOESN'T MAKE IT NOT A SEMANTIC ARGUMENT.

 

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK "WANT THIS SLOT RESOLVED" MEANS? HOW THE HELL ELSE DO YOU RESOLVE A SLOT IN A MAFIA GAME?

[Yates]

You are barely doing anything to assess me...

Trying to understand your motivation = assessing your slot.

 

Are you ready to be honest and tell me why you actually made that "deathening" post 17 minutes after my first post of the game? Or are you going to pretend like your current narrative is the legit reason?

[Yates]

HOW THE HELL ELSE DO YOU RESOLVE A SLOT IN A MAFIA GAME?

I interact with the slot. Remember when I tried to save Thane? THAT is how *I* resolve a slot. That, or a NA...

[Cory Caboose]

 

You are barely doing anything to assess me...

Trying to understand your motivation = assessing your slot.

 

Are you ready to be honest and tell me why you actually made that "deathening" post 17 minutes after my first post of the game? Or are you going to pretend like your current narrative is the legit reason?

 

 

[v]Lynch Yates[/v]