[Basic/Standard] A Wind in the Door Mafia - GAME OVER, TOWN WINS

[Yates]

I am actually going to dissect that entire post since it's terrible and I'm bored and feel like it.

Looking forward to it.

 

Sorry that I misunderstood the Des reference. It came across completely differently to me.

[Cory Caboose]

I'm probably confident enough to throw Yates in red here. I was at first going to color in all of the weasel-y snipes in the post but I'd rather just break it up point by point because there's so many things Yates does in this one post alone I have trouble believing he'd bother to do as a villager.

 

Let's set my narrative: Yates enters the game late, with little support from his hydra head, already well into the POE as the thread has been reasonably villagery up to this point and there are a lot of ~clearish players (me, dicecsarm, Err I think is consensus from every player, monstr, Tina with support, etc.). AFAICT he's still dis involved in the game; I wasn't impressed by his catch-ups but I'll go through and dissect those later. The first thing he's REALLY hammering on is why I said his "slot" was a problem despite the fact that HE'S REALLY NOT SCUMREADING ME; he just seems to want to debate semantics which is something I saw him hide behind in the Discworld Mafia game.

I want ALL OF YOU to think what Yates is trying to ACCOMPLISH with this post. Here's what I see:

 

Fairly certain you are being intentionally obtuse at this point. To what end? Remains a mystery.

 

 

This is the line that Yates is taking IRT to me. "You are being intentionally obtuse! What is your secret motive???" - I think I've made it pretty clear I didn't like Yates' catch-ups overall and he's top in the line of "slots I want to resolve". It's exaggerating a sense of paranoia he doesn't really have with players who are happy to push him - but absent is the real direct engagement. Short answer: Yates wants to give me the impression of well, I don't trust you either but steadfastly refuse to look me in the eyes.

 

Not certain the snark is warranted. Certainly adds no value or enjoyment to the game. Not for me, at least.

 

 

Town!Yates is loud and visceral and cares very little what people think about him. Scum!Yates takes a far more "political" and conciliatory approach. He's not saying "HEY, STOP" - he's pandering to the crowd and trying to gather sympathy for my "obtuse" attitude toward his slot, which is most because I don't have him as a villager.

 

Okay. I retract my question from above. Here you clearly admit to Hally being a slank poster regardless of alignment. So you see why you claiming you suddenly considered Hally "a problem" for "slanking" [and really - it's the weekend so is she even REALLY slanking?] might ping for me/require further investigation/explanation?

 

This seems like a blatant overshow. Town!Yates will correct himself if he thinks he's wrong - but he rarely does - IE he feels he has the right to 180 (which he does). Now, he READ my entire post and decided to debate it point-by-point, but above this is 3-4 sentences basically accusing me of not thinking Hallia has slanking patterns and trying to make an FoS about it before immediately abandoning it. This is all the EXACT DEFINITION OF JUST ADDING FLUFF AND "MINDSET" without it actually accomplish anything. He's trying to explain his thought process clunkily and finishes with a "well, can you see now why I thought x was suspicious?" - more pandering and less of anything trying to assess me.

 

Also, categorizing my scum game as "derp scum" is fairly childish. I won that, more or less, single-handed. Get over it. If the differences between my play here and my play in that game don't become immediately apparent? THEN you can worry about it. At this point? It's just an excuse/fake justification to justify your "read" on the slot. We both know it.

 

 

I call it as I see it; my scum game isn't all that great anymore since I just find it emotionally exhausting, so I wouldn't take it as a "I'm better than you" - just is what it is. That game is history and if you think I care about the result at this point you'd be mistaken; I have the emotional memory of a goldfish and that feels like years ago. Once again, rather than assess me, you choose to point to why MY ASSESSMENT MUST HAVE FAKE JUSTIFICATION. Which would be an easy sell - if you thought I was Mafia.

 

Finally, I'm here now. And I'm caught up. If you have a problem with my slot, feel free to direct your questions or concerns to me. I'd be happy to help. So you can go ahead and remove "lack of activity/posting" as an excuse to "scum read" or "have concerns" with this slot since I think we both know activity isn't going to be a problem with me in the game. Time to reassess, dude.

 

 

But the issue is that your stances here are concilatory and your read lacks any progression. You are telling me to reassess, but not assessing yourself. You are making a pointless argument you do not believe in, in a way that panders to the people reading (you put yourself in a "emotional" high ground with the why the snipes, bro? chat and show how willing you are to "help".
 

So Cory, you were saying something about someone having a "narrative...???"

 

Except my narrative is genuine. As far as I can tell, yours isn't.

[Songstress]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

Sili (1) - jmm
Tommy (3) - Sarmtosser, Tina, Lenlo
HalliYates (2) - Manbat, CorMish
jmm (1) - Sili
Pral (2) - Sleeper, Tommy

Not voting (3): Err, Pral, HalliYates


With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

 

MOD NOTES:

 

* Mish will be unavailable on Thursday, December 11

* As all players have now checked in, a deadline has been set.  

 

Deadline for Day 1 is Wednesday, December 10 @ 8:30 PM MST

Countdown Link: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20141210T2030&p0=197&msg=DAY+ONE+DEADLINE&csz=1

[Cory Caboose]

I highly, highly, highly encourage votes on Yates. Every vote.

 

Heading out to dinner, so you have some time to prepare your counter-attack. I'm considering just strong-arming your lynch and moving on, so find something good and worth pursuing.

[Songstress]

The sword itself has many meanings and interpretations. It could be my way of saying "Right on, brother!" or my way of saying "I want to cut you into little pieces and spread them over my lawn" or even "I like the way you look in red, but I don't really think you can pull off that dress".  I think in this case it's all of the above.

 

 

[Yates]

Except my narrative is genuine. As far as I can tell, yours isn't.

Rather than point out how you are wrong or misleading in pretty much every one of your "points" above, let's resolve this one little point. When did you decide the Hally/Yates slot was "a problem?"

 

That's really about as far as the narrative needs to go. I linked to it in the spoiler. It's pretty obvious since it's a QUOTABLE event. But feel free to show me where you started having issues with Hally prior to that post. I suppose it's possible I just missed it, right?

 

I'll wait.

[Cory Caboose]

 

Except my narrative is genuine. As far as I can tell, yours isn't.

Rather than point out how you are wrong or misleading in pretty much every one of your "points" above, let's resolve this one little point. When did you decide the Hally/Yates slot was "a problem?"

 

That's really about as far as the narrative needs to go. I linked to it in the spoiler. It's pretty obvious since it's a QUOTABLE event. But feel free to show me where you started having issues with Hally prior to that post. I suppose it's possible I just missed it, right?

 

I'll wait.

 

 

How are you missing this?

 

Any slot that's null or below is a problem. I'm a PoE player; your slot was firmly in the PoE. Hallia can be slanky - she's typically SLIGHTLY MORE slanky as a wolf as her motivation level is lower - and this game started THURSDAY so saying "It's the weekend, bruv" is not in any way substantial defense of that. But I had no interest in attacking that; the slot was simply just a problem. Considering I read Hallia fairly well when she's a villager I would not be shocked if she avoided engagement with me as Mafia / hid behind her reputation of being slanky.

You seem to be under the impression that it's weird that I have no read on a slot that had no content. I know by now I am better at finding villagers than wolves, so I'm happy to lynch MOST of the people outside of my POE. You weren't the only problem; but now you're less of a problem and more of confident suggestion.

 

If you are going to push my narrative as wolfy, do that. If you aren't, go find a wolf and present it. But if we are just going to sit here twiddling dicks and you are taking the stance of I am a villager and you are a villager but let's argue about some things you've said, you are only going to make me want your head more.

[Cory Caboose]

Good news: I'm ordering in, so I'll be here all night.

 

Even better news: I ordered barbecued wolf. And after only being able to eat like two slices of bread yesterday thanks to #hangovers, I am really goddamn hungry.

[Songstress]

MOD NOTE CORRECTION:
* Mish will be unavailable from now until Thursday, December 11

[Cory Caboose]

Rather than point out how you are wrong or misleading in pretty much every one of your "points" above, let's resolve this one little point. When did you decide the Hally/Yates slot was "a problem?"

 

PS, this does not actually exempt you from "pointing out how I am wrong or misleading".

 

That post was dead serious and I mean every word in it.

 

If I am wrong OR misleading people, it should probably be your perogative to tell people how and why. Since I'd have to have a motive for doing that, no?

 

In the words of a Mafia player whom I've never misrepresented and have read correctly very often:

 

I'll wait.

[Yates]

How are you missing this?

 

Any slot that's null or below is a problem. I'm a PoE player; your slot was firmly in the PoE. Hallia can be slanky - she's typically SLIGHTLY MORE slanky as a wolf as her motivation level is lower - and this game started THURSDAY so saying "It's the weekend, bruv" is not in any way substantial defense of that. But I had no interest in attacking that; the slot was simply just a problem.

Oh. Okay. Thanks for clearing that up. For some reason I thought you were attacking us and insinuating that our slot needed death. Weird. No idea where I got that idea...

Yates/Hallia slot is a problem :(

 

A problem that might require deathening

This is just ONE EXAMPLE of revisionist history.

 

So I guess I'll ask you again - WHEN SPECIFICALLY did you start thinking our slot might be a problem?

[Yates]

PS, this does not actually exempt you from "pointing out how I am wrong or misleading".

 

That post was dead serious and I mean every word in it.

 

If I am wrong OR misleading people, it should probably be your perogative to tell people how and why. Since I'd have to have a motive for doing that, no?

 

In the words of a Mafia player whom I've never misrepresented and have read correctly very often:

 

I'll wait.

Yup. Working on it.

[Yates]

This is where I'm at so far in response to that post:

 

The first thing he's REALLY hammering on is why I said his "slot" was a problem despite the fact that HE'S REALLY NOT SCUMREADING ME; he just seems to want to debate semantics which is something I saw him hide behind in the Discworld Mafia game.

1. What makes you think I'm not scum reading you? You realize that I have a 2nd head that is - for reasons still unknown to me - Town reading you, right? [For the record, she hasn't posted in our QT yet other than to say hi on Dec 5.]

2. Also, I haven't seen Mish scum telling yet so that's a 2nd problem for me.

3. You called my slot "a problem." What I'm doing with you is no different from what I'm doing with JMM and no different from what I would do with ANYONE ELSE that claimed they thought my slot was scummy; I'm trying to determine why. That's not "semantics." It's also how I play in EVERY SINGLE GAME. I'm not going to link to it because enough people here know my meta. If someone has a problem with my slot, I like to clear it up. Trying to use Discworld as an EXCUSE is just bad play from you, regardless of alignment, since pointing out something as a scum tell has to actually be something they only do as scum. Since I do this as Town, your read here is unsubstantiated.

 

Short answer: Yates wants to give me the impression of well, I don't trust you either but steadfastly refuse to look me in the eyes.

Refusal to look you in the eyes? WTF? Do you even believe this line of nonsense? I don't even know what you are trying to get at.

[Cory Caboose]

So I guess I'll ask you again - WHEN SPECIFICALLY did you start thinking our slot might be a problem?

 

The opening of the thread. You were a problem, as were 10 other slots.

[Cory Caboose]

I believe in all of it. Yo

 

 

Short answer: Yates wants to give me the impression of well, I don't trust you either but steadfastly refuse to look me in the eyes.

Refusal to look you in the eyes? WTF? Do you even believe this line of nonsense? I don't even know what you are trying to get at.

 

The idea that your positions are more directed toward A) making yourself look "more reasonable" and/or "better" than I do without B) directly engaging me.

 

I think you want people to chalk this argument up to v/v violence, but that's like a Level 2 read.

 

But you care more about how the thread percieves you than actually assessing my thoughts and what they mean.

[Cory Caboose]

Tell me more about how I'm playing badly.

[Yates]

As an addendum to point 1 above, I have also played [extensively] with Des. I'm not unused to dealing with vociferous mafia players yelling "YATES SCUM!" for various reasons only to discover they were just being derp Town with hurt feels because they lost to me once upon a time when I was scum that one time... I'm mature/patient enough at this point to figure out if you are intentionally misrepresenting me or if you are simply a butt hurt former victim of mine that is scared and wrong.

[Yates]

So wait - you are accusing me of not directly engaging you? I mean. Wow.

[Yates]

 

So I guess I'll ask you again - WHEN SPECIFICALLY did you start thinking our slot might be a problem?

 

The opening of the thread. You were a problem, as were 10 other slots.

 

Cop out. Try again.

[Cory Caboose]

I'm mature/patient enough at this point to figure out if you are intentionally misrepresenting me or if you are simply a butt hurt former victim of mine that is scared and wrong.

 

 

I've seen you as Mafia once in my lifetime and currently had you and your partner scum as my top two Mafia reads before I lynched your partner and you killed me.

 

Try again.

[Cory Caboose]

Cop out. Try again.

 

LOL

 

"CORY, WHAT PART OF OUR COMPLETE LACK OF CONTENT WORRIED YOU THE MOST AT THIS POINT?"

 

"THE FACT THAT YOU HAD A COMPLETE LACK OF CONTENT."

 

"NO, GIVE ME SPECIFICS!"

[Yates]

Town!Yates is loud and visceral and cares very little what people think about him. Scum!Yates takes a far more "political" and conciliatory approach. He's not saying "HEY, STOP" - he's pandering to the crowd and trying to gather sympathy for my "obtuse" attitude toward his slot, which is most because I don't have him as a villager.

No. Actually that's me saying "hey, stop." I stated in my first post of today [i think my first catch up post] that I'm not interested in playing in an emofest because they are toxic to games and lead to Town losses.

 

I can quote if you'd like. But I think we are being reasonably cordial at this point and don't feel the need to beat you up about it.

[Cory Caboose]

 

[v]Yates[/v]

[v]Yates[/v]

[v]Yates[/v]

[v]Yates[/v]

[v]Yates[/v]

[v]Yates[/v]

[v]Yates[/v]

 

[Yates]

 

Cop out. Try again.

 

LOL

 

"CORY, WHAT PART OF OUR COMPLETE LACK OF CONTENT WORRIED YOU THE MOST AT THIS POINT?"

 

"THE FACT THAT YOU HAD A COMPLETE LACK OF CONTENT."

 

So you maintain that your posting that our slot was "a problem" 17 minutes after my first post of the game was just... coincidence? This is what I want to know.

[Cory Caboose]

 

Town!Yates is loud and visceral and cares very little what people think about him. Scum!Yates takes a far more "political" and conciliatory approach. He's not saying "HEY, STOP" - he's pandering to the crowd and trying to gather sympathy for my "obtuse" attitude toward his slot, which is most because I don't have him as a villager.

No. Actually that's me saying "hey, stop." I stated in my first post of today [i think my first catch up post] that I'm not interested in playing in an emofest because they are toxic to games and lead to Town losses.

 

I can quote if you'd like. But I think we are being reasonably cordial at this point and don't feel the need to beat you up about it.

 

 

Don't call it an "emofest" - it's a "Cory thinks your Mafia and wants to see you lynched".

 

Chalking it up to the fact that I'm known for having a more "emotional" playstyle and hoping that causes people to consider my read less is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about where I don't think this attitude at all comes from Town!Yates.