[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

csarmi · November 13, 2014

In general. Not necessarily here.

Nynaeve · November 13, 2014

I think I'm catching a cold from severe fan exposure. lol

Cass · November 13, 2014

**Caught up to page 63, Post #1256**

Aside from the whole Des/DPR thing (leaving that well alone for now), it was probably post 1092 that really set me pinging off on DPR. Link provided for context. I'll give a general view on the things that ticked me off about it at the top. The spoiler is the post with 'wolfy' things highlighted in red, and my reactions to those are in a bigger font, red and bold (y'know, assuming the colour thing works this time).

RECAP OF THOUGHTS / CURRENT LEAN ON DPR

Krak asks DPR a legitimate question about his stance on Des. And DPR ignores the specifics and goes on with generalised fluff. I feel like this response to Krak is BS (Disclaimer: I have Krak down as a generally Townie player for now). I feel like Krak deserved a decent answer, in the best interests of the Town. That DPR didn't answer this - and that he did the same thing with Des (regardless of how tired we all were of Des' rampage, if he's Town he obviously feels he's onto something, and probably also deserves a response). I would have thought that anyone Town would have answered these questions as best as they were able, in the interests of clearing the air and moving on... but that didn't happen.

Basically, I feel like his response to Krak is BS. Although the rest of the post comes across as a clever mix of truth and scum. It's not fair on the rest of Town to avoid answering questions about why he's avoiding answering questions about Des. Des became a loud player there for a while and, looking at Krak's post he's potentially gaining some traction.

@ DPR - Even if you have no regard for how Des plays, it's not fair on the rest of Town to refuse to answer what he asks because you don't consider him to be an 'authority'. It's not about not getting into a flame war. For me it's about you providing us with more to read. You refusing to do that is Wolfy, IMO. And, TBH, I find that much of the rest of your post to be exactly what you highlight in your last 3 points as what you claim you would do as scum if somebody was pinging in on you: ie: 1. Over posting intending to bury posts and poison player's reps (Your response to Ragnarok). 2. Steer any conversation away from points that could be damaging (Your response to Krak). 3. Poop on the thread so that people avoid it and don't talk. (Most of this post, potentially - which is extra scary with your 'weight')....

Coincidently, you said this after I felt I was increasingly clear about that fact that I may have been pinging in on you, and alongside Csarmi AND Des (?and maybe others - NB TheRagnarok's post 1116 too) pinging in on you too). If you're telling the truth about that being what you would do as Scum then I really don't like where this is going.... (and yes, Csarmi, Des and Ragnarok and whoever else and I could be scum too, granted/goes without saying, but you're gaining some serious Scum ping here and if you're Town it makes sense that you answer the questions and help us all out, am I right?)

At the end of this, I think it's time for another direct question - you haven't been responding to my posts either - Why? Where do you stand on me (and why)?

@EVERYONE

This ^, coupled with the fact that the idea of Kiv and DPR heading up a team of scum would probably be fantastic (gameplay wise obviously, not for Town), truly has me worried... I know second guessing the mod's devious ways is technically null, but it's (the mod's decision) also part of the human component of the game (as far as I can deduct, + when I asked, nobody told me otherwise), and therefore, I can't help but consider it in my train of thought :dry:

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On 11/12/2014 at 8:52 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

On 11/12/2014 at 6:21 PM, TheRagnarok said:
DPR is giving me some bad juju recently. Everything looks good on the surface, but it feels wrong.

To me this reads "My friend doesn't like you and neither do I". By all means, post opinions and quotes and cases but knee-jerking to an obvious "Oldster vs. New Gen" cage match setup isn't going to help the town.

On 11/12/2014 at 6:30 PM, Krakalakachkn said:

Questions:

@DPR - In your post here I don't see you coming down on a side of the authority issue wrt Despo. Do you have an opinion on Despo taking the authoritative high ground and what is your follow-up opinion on Verb's use of the same play while interacting with Thane in the first few pages?

Krak, I don't undersstand what you are asking here. If you asking if I consider Des to be an authority on mafia, the answer is no (I've already noted what I think of his game).

Nor do I believe or support any "high-ground" plays. On D1, every player is equal. Wolves are gonna lie. We all know this. Until the dying starts, there is no high or low ground, there is only collecting posts to use as evidence of connections. **OBVIOUS generalisations, SPECIFICALLY avoiding the question = Padding and fluff???**

I don't have a strong opinion on Verb or Thane yet.

On 11/12/2014 at 7:12 PM, Yates. said:

On 11/12/2014 at 6:38 PM, Kivam said:
Des: no better way to clear a teammate than by explaining his behavior in a post that also scumreads, because it has the full explanatory effect whole allowing the "I wasn't defending" play you are currently making. I have you mostly town, so I'm not putting to much weight on it, but it's a fact worth noting in case later play changes that read or you or Yates flip scum
Wow. Wifom up the wazoo. Is everyone taking crazy pills right now?

Kivam - this post is complete nonsense. You are creating a false connection here. I'm pointing out that I'm chastising you so that if you flip scum I can be cleared as Town. How do you like that "logic?"

Insane.

There is a 0% chance that Yates does not understand what Kivam is getting at. < This statement I agree with. But was the motive behind it distancing from a scummy pal?

On 11/12/2014 at 7:31 PM, Kivam said:

On 11/12/2014 at 7:12 PM, Yates. said:

On 11/12/2014 at 6:38 PM, Kivam said:
Des: no better way to clear a teammate than by explaining his behavior in a post that also scumreads, because it has the full explanatory effect whole allowing the "I wasn't defending" play you are currently making. I have you mostly town, so I'm not putting to much weight on it, but it's a fact worth noting in case later play changes that read or you or Yates flip scum
Wow. Wifom up the wazoo. Is everyone taking crazy pills right now?

Kivam - this post is complete nonsense. You are creating a false connection here. I'm pointing out that I'm chastising you so that if you flip scum I can be cleared as Town. How do you like that "logic?"

Insane.

Of course. Scum who aren't setting up WIFOMs from Day 1 are asleep at the switch and asking to take their teammates down with them if they get caught. You don't do that as scum? I sure as hell do, which means I always keep my eyes open for it. I also find it interesting that you are trying to imply that there is no possible connection between you and DesLami.

Yates is a very skilled player. He's fun to watch, adept at big plays and absolutely not afraid to kick off D1 with strong moves.

^^^ ***Whole thing smells of scum team interaction/distancing to me?***

On 11/12/2014 at 7:43 PM, csarmi said:
I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

You're not the only one.

On 11/12/2014 at 7:45 PM, Yates. said:

On 11/12/2014 at 7:43 PM, csarmi said:
I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

Oh God I hope not. I'm trying to cut them both some slack because I got burned scum reading Rags in his first game back. But damn. The stuff they are honing in on is so frivolous and nonsensical I just can't understand the logic...

Awwww guys, we appreciate you and all but it's really not necessary. ***Cute. Csarmi makes a point, potential scum jumps on the band wagon with a post that smells like buddying and scum distancing, and the accused just leaves it to reputation to take care of the heat??** (People, correct me if I'm wrong!)

On 11/12/2014 at 7:47 PM, Despothera said:

On 11/12/2014 at 7:43 PM, csarmi said:
I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

I agree. And he's kind of trying - and very awkwardly I must say - to defend DPR without looking like he's defending DPR

Anyways, Imma go ahead and get out a fresh POE, then I need to start doing some errands cause ho lee krap I have been on here all friggin day

See my reaction above - Same. CSARMI and DES - thoughts?

I've asked some questions and made some statements about players and moves I thought they might be making.

I've been very specific about what I consider to be fact and what I consider to be speculation. All of this REEKS OF SCUM TO ME. (see explanation at the top)

I expect and encourage everybody else to do the same.

On D1, it's all conjecture, and the more GRC players add, the more we'll find out who's radar is on, etc.

I find Yates 3A speech to be total bullshit. I find Yates Seer claim to be WIFOM, which in and of itself is not big deal. But, I find Des explaining Yates claim to be a possible connection between the two. I've made this clear. I find Des backtracking on his initial enthusiasm over the effectiveness of Seer Cover to be a reaction to my calling it a possible connection. I find Sili picking up the Seer Cover Support Points conversation this morning to be suspicious and another possible connection.

I'm not going to get into a flame war with Des because Des is an emotional train wreck. Des is obsessed with me and it's unfortunate, but there it is.

All of this is documented and clear. No muss, no fuss.

For this afternoon, I see a concentrated effort to paint that "Oldster vs. New Gen" argument. To me, this is a pure scum technique - what a waste of everybody's time to fold up a buch of meta-paper-airplanes and send them all across the room.

If I was scum and somebody was pinging in on me on D1 with 30 hours to go until lynch, I would try to derail the thread with:

1. Emotional over posting intended to bury posts and poison players reps.

2. Steer any conversation away from points that could be damaging.

3. Poop on the thread so that people avoid it and don't talk.

I'm watching at all of these things taking place right now.

DPR - can you please reply? If you're Town I'd reeeaaallly like to know!

Other people - Help??

Yates · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 11:38 AM, Nynaeve said:
I don't feel comfortable moving her from my null pile yet. But if she keeps slanking into D2 as well, it's going to affect my read.

Samesies. This is my summary of her play so far:

From her first two posts I guess we can assume her vagina is in tip top shape?

She foregoes an actual catch up post and decides to agree with Des's list of reads.

She gives Sili a little chastising for his "my Day 1 vote doesn't matter" thing.

Some more agreeing with Des and giving Csarmi an "attaboy."

Jokey McJokerson with Wombat and Thane.

Then one more post from noon on Tuesday talking about Salami's D1 vote thing again.

Nothing of substance there. I'm used to seeing her with more teeth, I guess is the best way to describe it.

On 11/13/2014 at 11:38 AM, Nynaeve said:
I felt a bit tinfoily when she got unnecessarily brisk with Des but that might have to do with her personality and not so much with her alignment. She can be cranks as either, really. So for now light town read.

Yeah. That Des thing came across as a little harsh. But in retrospect I think I have some context for that frustration bubbling over here. Overall she seems to be her normal [to borrow an adjective from Wombat] AFFABLE self - with a side of snark. Mostly, it's how she has been approaching Darthe that's giving me the feel goods about her. She's seeing stuff others haven't already pointed out and using that to resolve his slot. That's Leelou Town solving - not Leelou Scum +1-ing.

Cass · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 11:13 AM, Nynaeve said:

On 11/13/2014 at 11:03 AM, Cass said:

On 11/13/2014 at 11:01 AM, Nynaeve said:

I get Kivam's point about an informative lynch, but I can't join a train of someone I'm town reading.

I think I've played enough with Arsis to read him well. His town and scum games are quite different. So my money's on him.

As town or scum?

Then, NB, disappearing to collate thoughts on Kiv and DPR (Damn for this game not having pause!!)

As scum. I explained it all in my ISO on him here: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91702-standard-1110-top-tier-vanilla-game-thread/?p=3377480

Thanks. Will check it out after I get out my gut on Kivam.

Yates · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 11:46 AM, csarmi said:
It's okay that way. I just seen lots of agenda pushing along those lines. Usually by scum. Often on me.

Can we not get into the "information lynch" debate again? Please and thank you?

Yates · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 11:52 AM, Cass said:

@EVERYONE

This ^, coupled with the fact that the idea of Kiv and DPR heading up a team of scum would probably be fantastic (gameplay wise obviously, not for Town), truly has me worried... I know second guessing the mod's devious ways is technically null, but it's (the mod's decision) also part of the human component of the game (as far as I can deduct, + when I asked, nobody told me otherwise), and therefore, I can't help but consider it in my train of thought

Don't go there. This undercuts the credibility of your post a bit. There's like a 99.99% chance that Tommy just put all the names on a list and copy/pasted into random.org. That's how roles are typically "rolled."

So it's fine if you think they are scummy. Just don't think they are scummy because of mod shenanigans.

csarmi · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 11:56 AM, Yates. said:

On 11/13/2014 at 11:46 AM, csarmi said:
It's okay that way. I just seen lots of agenda pushing along those lines. Usually by scum. Often on me.
Can we not get into the "information lynch" debate again? Please and thank you?

Sure, I'll shut up. Sorry for being out of place, I'm 20 pages behind and it caught my eyes in lunchtime.

csarmi · November 13, 2014

Hey

Wait

I got a new complaint

Forver

On 11/13/2014 at 11:56 AM, Yates. said:

On 11/13/2014 at 11:46 AM, csarmi said:
It's okay that way. I just seen lots of agenda pushing along those lines. Usually by scum. Often on me.
Can we not get into the "information lynch" debate again? Please and thank you?

Hey! Wait! I've got a new complaint. Forever in debt to your priceless advice.

Nynaeve · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 11:54 AM, Yates. said:

On 11/13/2014 at 11:38 AM, Nynaeve said:
I don't feel comfortable moving her from my null pile yet. But if she keeps slanking into D2 as well, it's going to affect my read.
Samesies. This is my summary of her play so far:

From her first two posts I guess we can assume her vagina is in tip top shape?

She foregoes an actual catch up post and decides to agree with Des's list of reads.

She gives Sili a little chastising for his "my Day 1 vote doesn't matter" thing.

Some more agreeing with Des and giving Csarmi an "attaboy."

Jokey McJokerson with Wombat and Thane.

Then one more post from noon on Tuesday talking about Salami's D1 vote thing again.

Nothing of substance there. I'm used to seeing her with more teeth, I guess is the best way to describe it.

Typically from what I've seen of her in previous games... if she's flabbergasted with the game and has no idea which way to turn and consequently a low volume of posts because of it... you can spot her frustration from a mile away. Here she's had very little content and borderline buddying with Des/Salami. But I'm not getting the confused feel from her. And what she did choose to comment on seems less important than other things that were going on. So, I want to see more, basically. A hell of a lot more.

Yates · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 12:07 PM, csarmi said:
Sure, I'll shut up. Sorry for being out of place, I'm 20 pages behind and it caught my eyes in lunchtime.

LOL - Sorry, I didn't mean to make that sound like you are "out of place." It's just that every game, it seems, we get into this debate - though typically it's about lynching inactives. Then it goes on for pages and pages and nothing is ever resolved so it shows up again in the next game and the next.

We should have a wiki that has the information lynch argument already hashed out that we can just reference. :laugh:

csarmi · November 13, 2014

These last posts sound like Town!Nyn to me.

Please tell me I'm right Nyn?

csarmi · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 12:11 PM, Yates. said:

On 11/13/2014 at 12:07 PM, csarmi said:
Sure, I'll shut up. Sorry for being out of place, I'm 20 pages behind and it caught my eyes in lunchtime.
LOL - Sorry, I didn't mean to make that sound like you are "out of place." It's just that every game, it seems, we get into this debate - though typically it's about lynching inactives. Then it goes on for pages and pages and nothing is ever resolved so it shows up again in the next game and the next.

We should have a wiki that has the information lynch argument already hashed out that we can just reference.

You didn't sound like I was out of place... I added that cause that's probably a fact. There is a 24 hour hole in my thread-reading.

Cliffs for me please?

Nynaeve · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 12:12 PM, csarmi said:

These last posts sound like Town!Nyn to me.

Please tell me I'm right Nyn?

This time you're right.

csarmi · November 13, 2014

Cause I'm so frustrated with this work I'm doing I might wanna do some chatting.

csarmi · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 12:13 PM, Nynaeve said:

On 11/13/2014 at 12:12 PM, csarmi said:

These last posts sound like Town!Nyn to me.

Please tell me I'm right Nyn?

This time you're right.

I'm so happy cause today I've found my friend

They're in my head

I'm so townie, but that's okay, cause so are you...

Yates · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 12:13 PM, csarmi said:
Cause I'm so frustrated with this work I'm doing I might wanna do some chatting.

Sorry - I have to hop in the shower and get to work. We can chat in like an hour?

I'm just super bummed that Cass is calling me scum but refusing to talk to me. Makes me a sad panda.

csarmi · November 13, 2014

Oh cool I'll be here.

csarmi · November 13, 2014

If we're lucky, Nyn is gone by then and we can have a tête-à-tête.

Nynaeve · November 13, 2014

On 11/13/2014 at 12:17 PM, csarmi said:
If we're lucky, Nyn is gone by then and we can have a tête-à-tête.

xD I can make myself scarce

Tommyrod · November 13, 2014

Vote Count D1.15:

Sili (5): Kivam [#362], Thane [#453], Krak [#1026], Wombat [#1213], Verbarm [#1239]
Pral (3): Nyn [#691], Yates [#698], Sili [#700]
DPR (1): Deslami [#1095]
Nyn (1): Pral [#416]
Yates (1): Darthe [#508]
Kivam (1): AJ [#1192]

Unvote (1): DICETHEICEMAN [#1183]

Not Voting (7): Cass, DPR, Hallia, Leelou, Stelio, Rags, Tress

At the gallows: Sili

Q: Will players who do not vote be modkilled?

A:

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Nynaeve · November 13, 2014

lol tom

Thane Vakarian · November 13, 2014

so..i totally forgot Tress was in the game... :dry:

Thane Vakarian · November 13, 2014

unvote

Sili's explanation made sense to me, and i'm willing to give him some more time.

vote:##PRAL

bro, you ain't helping, and i'm not going to wait forever for you to catch up.

Tommyrod · November 13, 2014

Vote Count D1.16:

Sili (4): Kivam [#362], Krak [#1026], Wombat [#1213], Verbarm [#1239]
Pral (4): Nyn [#691], Yates [#698], Sili [#700], Thane [#1299]
DPR (1): Deslami [#1095]
Nyn (1): Pral [#416]
Yates (1): Darthe [#508]
Kivam (1): AJ [#1192]

Unvote (1): DICETHEICEMAN [#1183]

Not Voting (7): Cass, DPR, Hallia, Leelou, Stelio, Rags, Tress

At the gallows: Sili

[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

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