[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[csarmi]

So you got two cars now?

[Thane Vakarian]

nope, new one will be delivered in 3 weeks, and the old one will go to the cardealership. 

As for the game, i tend to agree with Wombat that things died down a bit. But, does give people the chance to read up. I'd say use it, reread while possible. I'll probably do the same when things at work die down.

[csarmi]

So does that mean I can steal Liara? Now that you got a new car and all?

[csarmi]

Are you caught up in the thread?

[Thane Vakarian]

no, you can't have her, and yes, more or less. There's a few things i'd like to re-read though

[csarmi]

You can't blame me for trying though :)

 

WHat would you like to reread in particular?

[Thane Vakarian]

events just before logging off yesterday evening (my time) and after. 

[Cass]

I'm here!

 

*Dances*

 

SHOW TIME!!

 

OK. I'm gonna post some of my early/'current' reads, along with some questions for Town at this point. I'd like to really encourage everyone who has played with the people I’m wary about – and those I’m not wary enough of - before to weigh in on this for me, because I think your meta on them will be pivotal to my decisions and the way I cast my votes, but I’m wary for what this means down the track if the majority of people who post replies are Wolf.

 

(I don’t think it’s worth dismissing this as me asking for people to baby me, either, since the way I see it, at this point the number of Town vastly outnumber the number of Wolves, and pooling our collective meta on everyone now is the best way to ensure what we’re reading isn’t building bias based on an over-representation of strategic Wolf...).

 

Here goes.

**Disclaimer: These are early reads and I’m not completely caught up yet. This is a work in progress but I thought it would be better to post now, holes and all, than wait and let my ‘non-contributions’ vibe grow.  My reads are not yet in any order and they’re (obviously) based on gut reactions to wording and timing at this point, rather than insights into implications on tells and the theories of how people tend to play the game. I’m hoping game progression and y’all can help me with that. Tips on how to be faster would also be appreciated. (Like, for example, is there a way to find a full list of posts from a single player in the thread? I’ve asked mentorbat but timezones are making that weirdly ineffective now). Anyway. Early thoughts(!) on some not all players    

 

 

Yes. I realise that's a three paragraph introduction. I'm wordy. I warned you...

 

 

 

DICE

Dice’s interactions with me at this point seem very normal Dice. I don’t have time to backsearch all the pages to analyse his interactions with others (yet), but I think it may be important to note for the future of this game that I don’t think you can judge his allegiance by the way he interacts with me. He feels responsible for me in this game, and we’re mates - he is treating me with kidd gloves. And I get the feeling he will continue to do so for the rest of the game, whether he wants to or not, regardless of whether he randed Wolf or Town, unless it really, really comes to the crunch. Read his reflection on me here again and I think you’ll see what I mean.

 

Because we’re mates and Band Cavvy pals, I automatically start with him in Town but, staying honest, my jury is out on him until I go back and read all of his posts.

 

His reflection on me is pretty accurate, except for the nerves part - now that I’ve started and people have responded/mentioned I’m ‘endearing’ (  @ Desp ) I think I’m all good *g*. But I’d like to clarify for everyone what he meant when he said in the Turbo game my reads were ‘just a little too late’. My insight is not necessarily slow. My posting unfortunately is (I’m working on it!!). After being (understandably) mislynched N1, I followed the game live and actually did end up with all the right reads before the final votes/wagons were pushed in the game. I’m taking that as a good sign. Dice may be right about activity being a problem for me initially though. I’m busy with work from 430am til 630pm (at the earliest) Mon-Wed etc and I really am just plain slow. 

 

Dicey, thanks for unvoting me, and I hope we’re on the same team . Frankly though, if you’re not, you’re GONE . Seduce me.

 

KIVAM

I like the way Kivam posts. For someone with my lack of actual game experience, some of his/her natural reflections on game ‘events’ are very insightful, and, TBH, they make me feel safe, as if I am getting an idea of what is going on. However – I am not sure that I like his/her underlying tone. I understand (or have been told) that Kivam is a bit of a legend in mafia on DM *nods to Kivam* so I understand the frank reflections, but, to me, there’s something kind of dismissive and condescending about the tone. Yes, it’s insightful, but there’s the slightest whiff of sneer and not really much display of team.  Maybe it’s deliberate, I’m not sure. But it concerns me, because I’m assuming that if s/he’s Wolf, s/he’s experienced/smart enough to edit her train of thought in those posts naturally enough to turn suspicions onto the people s/he’d eventually like to see mislynched – and the ‘legend’ status that his/her meta contains could be enough to easily sway unwary town.

 

For example, this post - #475 - s/he posts a ‘pop quiz’, calls us all ‘hotshots’ and comments that the reason for testing us is to ‘see how far we’ve fallen’. I don’t like it. I would like to think that someone experienced at the game and Town would be all for just telling us where they thought we were going wrong, if we did, and offering us guidance rather than a grilling. Interestingly, I thought, Desp replied in post #480 with what I thought was a pretty good, honest answer, but (as far as I’ve seen) [/i]Kivam never replied[/i].

 

Why post a very pointed question, worded like that, if it wasn’t something you were ever going to answer when people replied? The only rationale my gut can come up with for that is because the point to the post in the poster’s mind was more about making a personal point/being derisive than it was about being town. And counting on reputation to get away with it, to boot.

 

This sort of thing means that I have Kivam down as largely unknown, but possibly leaning towards red. And like I said, that concerns me because of his/her apparent reputation and potential to swing ‘Town’ play.

 

People, help me/us out (all of you – majority rules, remember?). I realise that a player as adept as Kivam will be able to dodge this sort of ‘read’ with incredible ease, no matter where his/her alliances lie, but I thought it was worth a mention specifically to the rest of you, in case I’m on the money.

In response to Kivam’s recap of my participation thus far

“Cass shows up again, posts nothing, and then says she’ll disappear again. (I’ll take Radar Avoidance for $200, Alex).” ( (top of post #609). I have to say ‘fair’, although I’d like to think rather than posting ‘nothing’ what I posted was a possibly important introduction offering insight on how I ‘work’ to people who don’t know me and needed something on which to judge my future tone. That's why I did it. And it seems to have worked just like that for most so *shrugs*, that's also why I'm weighing in now with something more   . You got me on the saying I’ll disappear again. I’m picking up on that trend with me too. It's annoying and almost as bad as my noobie vibe and the fact that I just referred to you as s/he for an entire read. I’ll work on it. No promises I'll succeed   

**Questions for Town**
a) Is this sort of tone - see stuff in spoiler for what I mean - normal for Kivam?
b) Is my malaise on the money? And, for Light’s sake,

c) Am I supposed to be referring to shim (/you) as he or she??????

 

DESPOTHERA

My read on Desp’s initial ‘nothing’ posts was that he came across as possibly too defensive for Town. I had him down as slightly suspicious. But then, I really liked the way he set out his POE post (#455) and a lot of what he said made sense and the way it was written sat well with me. It seemed like a genuine attempt to … well, be genuine. I’m not sure if that, with him, points to wolf or town? Meh.

 

VERBAL/BARMACRAL HYDRA

I know it was early on and caused a bit of fuss already, but I too found Barm’s post #28 a little... odd. Seemed ‘Wolfy’ in a sense, made me want to ask “Barm, are you jumping on a nothing in order to set Leelou up as scum, because you're WILF?” *shrugs*

**Questions for Town**

Was he? / Has he done anything similar since? 

 

NYN

I’m not sure what to make of Nyn. Her approach and tone seem to be so opposite to mine it actually takes me aback some. But I think at this point I +1 her for being direct and tending to say things exactly how she ‘thinks’.

 

THANE

Thane seemed very active early on, not so much now (correct me if I’m wrong?). I’m not sure whether this was because he was genuine and got stamped on for being active and attempting to be jovial, or because he was caught out for playing somewhat different from what people would expect. There was possibly something different that I couldn't put my finger on. He’s the only person besides Dice that I know, and I’m not sure if he was coming across a little different to normal for mafia or in general, or not. I don’t think I’ve seen enough of him past the ‘it could just have been banter’ stage to try a real read.

Thane, help me out buddy, what’s going on? Convince me that you’re not a wolf... Pls  

 

YATES

It may just have been Seer cover, but I too found Yates’ post #71 (Hard claiming to be Seer, ‘peeking’ Dice as Town) suspicious. I just did. Reasons why outlined in my questions below.

**Questions for Town**

a) Is it usual for Yates to provide such OPEN Seer 'cover'?

b) How plausible is it (especially for those who have caught up and may have examples either way) that Yates may have been a Wolf posting ‘cover’ in the hopes of initiating other ‘peaks’/trying to find the Seer?

 

- - - -

OK. I know this isn’t a full list of players, and that I’m not caught up ( ). If there’s something specific you want my take on, ask.  

If anyone has a (constructive) strategy for dealing with the frustration of being this behind and where I should go from here I’d be happy to hear it (e.g. Do I have to/is it more helpful for me to go back over everything I’m behind on and comment/give you my reads, or not really?). For now I think I’m going to cut my losses, skip to the present and answer specifics when they arise, K?  

 

Looking forward to moving on and people weighing in. 

 

--->(And to finding out how, for the love of Light, to search for a SINGLE PLAYER’S posts!!!) <--- ANSWER THIS ONE FIRST, please!   

[Thane Vakarian]

howdy Cass  

 

Glad to see you're ITT. (In The Thread). Your fav lawbreaker is town here, no worries about that. Now, i just need to figure out your allignment, so we can go hunting wolves together (or, i unfortunately have to lynch you with the other townies)

 

You post looks pretty descent, how's Manbat treating ya?  

[Sili Quirrels]

To search for posts made by a player there's a search box at the top right of the page and a magnifying icon beside it that will open up an advanced search page. once there you can head down to the author bar and enter in the username you want to iso. it'll bring up all their posts in this thread.

[Sili Quirrels]

not sure if cass' introduction post was overdone, but i don't think i actually know what an introduction post to mafia looks like. never done one.

 

i guess it was thorough enough for a green read from me.

[Cass]

Sili, I <3 you as of now. Forever. 

 

Thane... you sound a little forced to me. Like you're explaining yourself too much - over-justifying compared to the posts I associate with you from the Band. I know you're a lawbreaker *looks at her spotfine book*  , but this time, are you a Wolf? Have you got a post of your current reads somewhere? I would really like to see it... Manbat is the bomb. Gave me tips on basic theory and rules pre-game, and since the beginning of the day he has: laughed at me for the fact he threw me in a turbo, told me my second post was 'not bad' ... 'for my second post', warned me that if I disappointed him with my reads post things are gonna get rough, and answered my noobie 'what does EOS stand for' q. You say my posts look pretty decent  What else would you like to see from me to help you decipher that I'm Town?

EVERYONE ELSE - Is this how Thane normally sounds in a game? Has anyone even had enough time to gather any in-game meta on him with his history of being lynched D1?

[csarmi]

Kivam: dunno him. You may be right on the tone. Will have to check.

 

Thane: couldnt read that part yet.

 

Yates: yes to both questions. But seer cover haa not been usual on DM before this.

[Cass]

^ Just to be clear, the   was for the ISO tip. I'm still not sure we're friends 

[csarmi]

Frustration of being behind: be happy you have to catchup to 30 pages only, not 300.

 

Also hi I am hydra witg Des. Howdy.

 

Advice: forget post isolation at this point, go through everything in context first.

[Barmacral]

Kivam is a he.

 

Re: my play you commented on - It was me pushing buttons and gauging reactions, gathering information. I've done it several times throughout the game.

[Thane Vakarian]

Sili, I <3 you as of now. Forever. 

 

Thane... you sound a little forced to me. Like you're explaining yourself too much - over-justifying compared to the posts I associate with you from the Band. I know you're a lawbreaker *looks at her spotfine book*  , but this time, are you a Wolf? Have you got a post of your current reads somewhere? I would really like to see it... Manbat is the bomb. Gave me tips on basic theory and rules pre-game, and since the beginning of the day he has: laughed at me for the fact he threw me in a turbo, told me my second post was 'not bad' ... 'for my second post', warned me that if I disappointed him with my reads post things are gonna get rough, and answered my noobie 'what does EOS stand for' q. You say my posts look pretty decent  What else would you like to see from me to help you decipher that I'm Town?

EVERYONE ELSE - Is this how Thane normally sounds in a game? Has anyone even had enough time to gather any in-game meta on him with his history of being lynched D1?

i'm totally relaxed, i assure you. I just need to reread some stuff, but all in all, i'm starting to get an idea on people in game. I'll get to that once i can. And, i'm no wolf. I like to stick around the thread when i can and interact with the people present. I like it here and wish to spend time in this game For now, stay in the thread, be yourself, and we'll figure things out. 

[Barmacral]

I like this post. 

 

I  agree with you about Thane and Silli. I'd like to see more from Stello. Null right now. Agreed about Des/Salami. Same about Arsis. Krak I'm also going back and forth on. But I keep thinking he won't push something this thick as scum so I'm leaning prolly derp right now. He needs to start offering more content, though. I am liking Kivam's notes because he's not afraid to put his thoughts out there, but it's not a guarantee so I'm mostly looking forward to see his finalized conclusions and read list. AJ and Barm I don't really agree with at this point. AJ is still in the midst of nullness and the Verb/Barm hydra is giving me bad juju.

 

 

Why do you have bad juju about us? You've said this several times but I don't recall you giving a reason for it.

[Sili Quirrels]

it could be that yates is banking on dm being new to seer cover, but i suspect not. if he's wolfpack it's more likely the seer cover is for keeping appearances rather than finding the seer. if the true seer is new to the concept of seer cover they might withhold their results, and if the true seer is vetted with experience then they will claim when it suits them.

 

and in an ideal world everyone seer claims at some point and covers for the real seer to make this gambit moot. the real seer will then take advantage of the seer cover if it's safe, the risk is warranted, and the benefits outweigh the loss of their role, should they flip.

 

claiming seer right now when there are only three other claims is risky.

[csarmi]

 

I was alone

Falling free

Trying my best not to forget

 

[Sili Quirrels]

Why do you have bad juju about us? You've said this several times but I don't recall you giving a reason for it.

 

Because your language is stilted language, and implies a guilty conscience?

[Nynaeve]

NYN

I’m not sure what to make of Nyn. Her approach and tone seem to be so opposite to mine it actually takes me aback some. But I think at this point I +1 her for being direct and tending to say things exactly how she ‘thinks’.

 

mmmm.... thanks? lol

[Sili Quirrels]

point on yates is that even were he wolfpack the gambit to seer claim should not bare fruit, so there's not much point in making it other than the town cred. if you think grasping at town cred is scummy... then i think that's a little silly but all the power to you.

[Leelou]

The thread needs more of the pirate.

[Barmacral]

The thread needs more of the pirate.

 

Definitely.