[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

[Andrej]

 

Csarmi you should probably stop trying to make reads if you aren't caught up in real time.

You mean i should stop playing whatsoever? There is zero chance of a reread ever happening and evwn reading evwrything just once is unlikely. You're trying to have it both ways. I should post and i should not post.

Wahteves.

No I just think you should be fully up to date before you spit out percentage reads like that. I'm not telling you to reread the entire game.

 

Are you? Where was the last point you read up through?

[Tommyrod]

 

 

I think it's funny that Yates gave me crap for hours for wanting to vote Hallia over Thane D1, then when I acquiesced and lynched Thane I get crap for defending Hallia? Makes me chuckle a bit. If you have time you should read that again.

So why did you lynch Thane?

Because Yates and Des were -really- sure and I thought I would be FOS'd strongly if Thane flipped scum and I had ignored the wagon all day, and there were some moments that I just felt meh about lynching Hallia, and it was still better to lynch someone who had been talked about a lot than the slanker SP.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Hallia/Leelou/Verb/Tommy/Clov

 

That's basically where I'm at atm. Might swap Tommy with Yates but I feel confident in my ability to recognize town!Yates and I'm getting that vibe here this game. Csarmi is another possibility because I feel like he's fading into the background and I don't like that.

Sorry man. I gonna keep fading even more. Can't really help it, next day might be crazy busy and theb I shall be abroad (should have net but still).

 

Don't like it? Dunno what to tell you. Read me on the first 200 pages.

you in the first 200 pages was pretty bad

[Clovdyx]

 

 

I think it's funny that Yates gave me crap for hours for wanting to vote Hallia over Thane D1, then when I acquiesced and lynched Thane I get crap for defending Hallia? Makes me chuckle a bit. If you have time you should read that again.

So why did you lynch Thane?

Because Yates and Des were -really- sure and I thought I would be FOS'd strongly if Thane flipped scum and I had ignored the wagon all day, and there were some moments that I just felt meh about lynching Hallia, and it was still better to lynch someone who had been talked about a lot than the slanker SP.

 

 

And you only lynched Sili because the ninja comment, right?

[Leelou]

 

 

Leelou

 

Her L-1 vote on Sili was a scumclaim. I don't CARE how annoying that crap was, as Alanna said it was EXTREMELY easy to ignore. Her putting him at hammer range and then him self-voting soon after, basically locks Leelou in as scum pretty neatly.

 

However, she has certainly had more questionable things against her. I found her reads list to be incredibly weak (I'll post it later if I have time, but yeah it was weak), I think after getting townread from tone she then disappeared from the thread generally, and speaking of- look at who essentially cleared her. Clov had that wacky tobacky "gambit" with her early on then backed off crazy quick, and also in trying to "pressure" her to see how happy or frustrated she might respond, he could have set her up to be miscleared on tone in the first place. Nyn was also one to clear Leelou early on for this, and while I can KINDA see her theory about Leelou not being as upset if she rolled scum with Verbal, at the end of the day, this is still a theory, and Nyn could have just been a scummate trying to clear a teammate early in the game. Leelou talking up Nyn's towniness sooooooo much also kinda seems odd, but eh I'm getting sidetracked somewhat (this is the Leelou show, not the Leelou/Nyn show)

 

She along with Hallia and Nyn fell for my AJ trap, and has had really poor thread presence throughout. While this isn't damning in and of itself, since it HAS been a lot more active than she's used to, when she has been here she just has not looked like she's been that interested in solving. Most of the time she's defending herself snarkily or talking smack about Csarmi or something. And then she kept saying she would need more time to read Verb, but when her reads list finally dropped, she just said she hadn't seen any scummy sounding posts from him

 

 

Conclusion: My new wow buddies have betrayed me! (Hallia and Leelou, and possibly Verbal)

Meh, sorry for the L-1, but I had already posted earlier I had Sili as a scum lean, I didn't really see any need to not vote. Plus, there were 8 other people voting him before me, so not really all my fault he got lynched.

 

I actually don't think I've been overly snarky this game. My reads are what they are, can you point out what you don't like? AJ was a bit weird with Wombat in the beginning, he's gotten better since being in the thread and engaged. Yes, this game is far too active for me to handle. Not sure what is up with Clov. Salami is still in the game and I'm wavering on him, Des. Would you rather I just ignore him completely?

Def not even close to being able to convince me here. First paragraph is turrible defense. Many people were VERY vocal about why waiting longer before lynching him would be a good idea so your "I didn't really see any reason to not vote" doesn't hold up at all. Shirking responsibility with the "8 people voted before me" is even worse, considering your L-1 vote put him within self hammer range and I'm pretty positive 8 people didn't vote before you. Iirc, it was 7 to hammer yesterday so either 5 or 6 people voted before you (and likely 2 scummates in Clov and Hallia)

 

Second paragraph is meh, nothing you say there actually shows why you'd be town here

 

 

I typed the wrong number, but my point still remains the same. It doesn't take one person to build a lynch train. Anyone else could have unvoted or voted elsewhere to build trains. 

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

I think it's funny that Yates gave me crap for hours for wanting to vote Hallia over Thane D1, then when I acquiesced and lynched Thane I get crap for defending Hallia? Makes me chuckle a bit. If you have time you should read that again.

So why did you lynch Thane?

Because Yates and Des were -really- sure and I thought I would be FOS'd strongly if Thane flipped scum and I had ignored the wagon all day, and there were some moments that I just felt meh about lynching Hallia, and it was still better to lynch someone who had been talked about a lot than the slanker SP.

And you only lynched Sili because the ninja comment, right?

It was the moment I thought it was likely he was lying since I have no idea where he would have heard of a ninja role unless it was an actual scum role and he messed up. I asked him where he saw it and he stopped responding.

 

Still don't know where it came from unless it was meant to be a forced slip.

 

Why did you think he was lolcatting with his votes before that? When does scum lolcat on D2 after being a mostly consensus town read?

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

 

I think it's funny that Yates gave me crap for hours for wanting to vote Hallia over Thane D1, then when I acquiesced and lynched Thane I get crap for defending Hallia? Makes me chuckle a bit. If you have time you should read that again.

So why did you lynch Thane?

Because Yates and Des were -really- sure and I thought I would be FOS'd strongly if Thane flipped scum and I had ignored the wagon all day, and there were some moments that I just felt meh about lynching Hallia, and it was still better to lynch someone who had been talked about a lot than the slanker SP.

And you only lynched Sili because the ninja comment, right?

It was the moment I thought it was likely he was lying since I have no idea where he would have heard of a ninja role unless it was an actual scum role and he messed up. I asked him where he saw it and he stopped responding.

 

Still don't know where it came from unless it was meant to be a forced slip.

 

Why did you think he was lolcatting with his votes before that? When does scum lolcat on D2 after being a mostly consensus town read?

 

 

Because I still thought he was scum from D1, and it was - and IMO, still is - highly unlikely that he was being made to move his vote a hundred times.  Unless he was randomly given the post requirement of "spam your vote on everyone for no reason", there's basically no way him doing that was because he was being manipulated.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's funny that Yates gave me crap for hours for wanting to vote Hallia over Thane D1, then when I acquiesced and lynched Thane I get crap for defending Hallia? Makes me chuckle a bit. If you have time you should read that again.

So why did you lynch Thane?

Because Yates and Des were -really- sure and I thought I would be FOS'd strongly if Thane flipped scum and I had ignored the wagon all day, and there were some moments that I just felt meh about lynching Hallia, and it was still better to lynch someone who had been talked about a lot than the slanker SP.

And you only lynched Sili because the ninja comment, right?

It was the moment I thought it was likely he was lying since I have no idea where he would have heard of a ninja role unless it was an actual scum role and he messed up. I asked him where he saw it and he stopped responding.

 

Still don't know where it came from unless it was meant to be a forced slip.

 

Why did you think he was lolcatting with his votes before that? When does scum lolcat on D2 after being a mostly consensus town read?

Because I still thought he was scum from D1, and it was - and IMO, still is - highly unlikely that he was being made to move his vote a hundred times. Unless he was randomly given the post requirement of "spam your vote on everyone for no reason", there's basically no way him doing that was because he was being manipulated.

You think scum is going to say "damn I wish we would have just lynched that doc?"

 

The whole point of being scum is survival. Your reason for lynching him was that he was doing the opposite of that -- being abrasive and obvious.

 

When do you see scum do that?

[hazelkrs1]

Tom's posts this phase are pretty bad I'll admit

[Tommyrod]

Tom's posts this phase are pretty bad I'll admit

Why?

[hazelkrs1]

I typed the wrong number, but my point still remains the same. It doesn't take one person to build a lynch train. Anyone else could have unvoted or voted elsewhere to build trains.

Oh come on Leelou. Quit ditching responsibility- your L-1 vote was OBVIOUSLY more instrumental in getting Sili lynched than say the first or second vote on his train. No one had TIME to unvote because YOU put him within hammer range.

 

You're totes Scum

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's funny that Yates gave me crap for hours for wanting to vote Hallia over Thane D1, then when I acquiesced and lynched Thane I get crap for defending Hallia? Makes me chuckle a bit. If you have time you should read that again.

So why did you lynch Thane?

Because Yates and Des were -really- sure and I thought I would be FOS'd strongly if Thane flipped scum and I had ignored the wagon all day, and there were some moments that I just felt meh about lynching Hallia, and it was still better to lynch someone who had been talked about a lot than the slanker SP.

And you only lynched Sili because the ninja comment, right?

It was the moment I thought it was likely he was lying since I have no idea where he would have heard of a ninja role unless it was an actual scum role and he messed up. I asked him where he saw it and he stopped responding.

 

Still don't know where it came from unless it was meant to be a forced slip.

 

Why did you think he was lolcatting with his votes before that? When does scum lolcat on D2 after being a mostly consensus town read?

Because I still thought he was scum from D1, and it was - and IMO, still is - highly unlikely that he was being made to move his vote a hundred times. Unless he was randomly given the post requirement of "spam your vote on everyone for no reason", there's basically no way him doing that was because he was being manipulated.

You think scum is going to say "damn I wish we would have just lynched that doc?"

 

The whole point of being scum is survival. Your reason for lynching him was that he was doing the opposite of that -- being abrasive and obvious.

 

When do you see scum do that?

 

 

You think town should be upset that the doctor claimed to prevent being mislynched?

 

And no, my reason for wanting to lynch him D1 is because his play didn't make sense to me from a town perspective.  You don't just assume somebody is going to be town on the grounds that you "need them to be town" so you can trust them.  He was happy just following you and Nyn blindly with minimal effort to discern your alignment.  Then as soon as I claimed...he apparently no longer can trust you.  That makes sense.

 

D2...I don't see how you can argue that the lynch came down to him or Despot.  One of them was very clearly lying about their night activity, and I don't think town should be lying about results in order to get somebody lynched.  I'm not going to apologize for trusting my town read to be telling the truth over my scum read.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Tom's posts this phase are pretty bad I'll admit

Why?

You're basically pulling the Salami move of trying to question an unclear obvious townies and making poor attempts to do so at that

[Andrej]

Would like to see more progression of Tom/Clov outside of Night phase.

 

They bickered a lot in Tron as w/w but as an outsider observer I thought they were fairly obvious scumbros for never voting each other despite the arguments.

[Andrej]

Off the books I may finally be ready to adopt the Chargers as my AFC team.

[Tommyrod]

It's far more likely town would make a joke like that; Nyn and I have brought up the same sentiments.

 

When Des brought up the Jester idea you said he was a consensus D1 town read and wasn't trying to get himself lynched, but said he was lolcatting (i.e. he's being obvious scum).

 

So again: when do you see scum being obvious, especially after having a reasonably good D1? When does scum out themselves unnecessarily like that?

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's funny that Yates gave me crap for hours for wanting to vote Hallia over Thane D1, then when I acquiesced and lynched Thane I get crap for defending Hallia? Makes me chuckle a bit. If you have time you should read that again.

So why did you lynch Thane?

Because Yates and Des were -really- sure and I thought I would be FOS'd strongly if Thane flipped scum and I had ignored the wagon all day, and there were some moments that I just felt meh about lynching Hallia, and it was still better to lynch someone who had been talked about a lot than the slanker SP.

And you only lynched Sili because the ninja comment, right?

It was the moment I thought it was likely he was lying since I have no idea where he would have heard of a ninja role unless it was an actual scum role and he messed up. I asked him where he saw it and he stopped responding.

 

Still don't know where it came from unless it was meant to be a forced slip.

 

Why did you think he was lolcatting with his votes before that? When does scum lolcat on D2 after being a mostly consensus town read?

Because I still thought he was scum from D1, and it was - and IMO, still is - highly unlikely that he was being made to move his vote a hundred times. Unless he was randomly given the post requirement of "spam your vote on everyone for no reason", there's basically no way him doing that was because he was being manipulated.

You think scum is going to say "damn I wish we would have just lynched that doc?"

 

The whole point of being scum is survival. Your reason for lynching him was that he was doing the opposite of that -- being abrasive and obvious.

 

When do you see scum do that?

You think town should be upset that the doctor claimed to prevent being mislynched?

 

And no, my reason for wanting to lynch him D1 is because his play didn't make sense to me from a town perspective. You don't just assume somebody is going to be town on the grounds that you "need them to be town" so you can trust them. He was happy just following you and Nyn blindly with minimal effort to discern your alignment. Then as soon as I claimed...he apparently no longer can trust you. That makes sense.

 

D2...I don't see how you can argue that the lynch came down to him or Despot. One of them was very clearly lying about their night activity, and I don't think town should be lying about results in order to get somebody lynched. I'm not going to apologize for trusting my town read to be telling the truth over my scum read.

Clov you arguing that the lynch should have DEFINITELY been between Sili and I yesterday only confirms you as scum here considering he was being controlled

 

His actions made no sense period, from either a Town or Scum POV (hence my Jester theory) and I shouldn't be lynched ever in that scenario

 

Conflicting NA situations DO NOT make for a black and white situation- mafia is always shades of grey and finding out if something more sinister is afoot (which it was)

[hazelkrs1]

I think I'm somewhere around here.

 

1. Hally

2. AJ

5. Pral

6. Clov

7. Leelou

8. Verbal

9. Des

10. Alanna

11. Yates

15. Tommy

16. Nyn

LAWLZ

 

Salami you are just really, really bad this game

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Tom's posts this phase are pretty bad I'll admit

Why?

You're basically pulling the Salami move of trying to question an unclear obvious townies and making poor attempts to do so at that

Who, AJ? I am telling him to look in the mirror, not getting at him. But I just watched two games be lost due to blind spots. Wolves are miscleared in almost every game. It's still pretty early in the game and slots should be reassessed after unexpected developments.

[hazelkrs1]

No broskis, it's still pretty simple.

 

If there are 3 wagons and 1 is a wolf, it's far more beneficial to the wolves to stack one of the wagons and have the wagons be like 6-2 rather than have three wagons and make them 3-3-2, because the chance that the wolf can get randomly CFD'd by a mood swing is much greater with spread votes.

 

Thane was a leader wagon over Hallia, partially thanks to Yates championing the Thane wagon. When the SP wagon was proposed, Yates argued to keep votes on the Thane wagon, thus maintaining the strong vote lead to prevent a Hallia wagon from taking off. Whether he meant to do this or not is not my current argument; it's the fact that this was the consequence of his actions.

 

You cannot argue otherwise. Because it doesn't make any sense to argue otherwise.

Nope Nope NOPE. Your argument is invalid

 

Three wagons means there is roughly ~33% chance of each getting lynched. Two wagons means each wagon is roughly ~50% likely to get lynched

 

Play better Tommy

[Clovdyx]

It's far more likely town would make a joke like that; Nyn and I have brought up the same sentiments.

 

When Des brought up the Jester idea you said he was a consensus D1 town read and wasn't trying to get himself lynched, but said he was lolcatting (i.e. he's being obvious scum).

 

So again: when do you see scum being obvious, especially after having a reasonably good D1? When does scum out themselves unnecessarily like that?

 

Then I guess I don't understand his humor, because I didn't think it was a joke.  I certainly didn't think it was a joke when he expressed the sentiment twice.

 

Second line is being pretty loose with what I said.  

 

 

 

 

 

I'm still worried Sili is either a Jester or playing towards his town wincon or something- this just seems too bizarre to pull off as scum

huh?

1. I know beyond the shadow of a doubt I didn't target Wombat last night

 

2. I really don't see ANY NA shenanigans that would have led him to believe that

 

Knowing both of those, there are three choices here

 

A. Sili is pulling the weakest scum gambit in history

 

B. He's a Jester trying to do everything g he can to get lynched

 

C. He's a townie pulling an incredibly stupid gambit that at this point would essentially be playing against his wincon for how distracting and destructive to towns chances of winning it is

 

 

Jester is plausible, but I really question his method for going about it.  Most people were reading him as far more likely to be derpnoobtown D1 than scum.  If he was TRYING to get lynched, I think he could have steered it in that direction.

 

 

I don't think that's being a "consensus townie".  I might give you consensus probable townie, but I don't remember too many people completely clearing him.  

 

 

And I can't give you an answer when scum outs themselves.  When do vanilla townies fake results to get somebody lynch and then commit to it after their accused denies it?  

[Tommyrod]

 

No broskis, it's still pretty simple.

 

If there are 3 wagons and 1 is a wolf, it's far more beneficial to the wolves to stack one of the wagons and have the wagons be like 6-2 rather than have three wagons and make them 3-3-2, because the chance that the wolf can get randomly CFD'd by a mood swing is much greater with spread votes.

 

Thane was a leader wagon over Hallia, partially thanks to Yates championing the Thane wagon. When the SP wagon was proposed, Yates argued to keep votes on the Thane wagon, thus maintaining the strong vote lead to prevent a Hallia wagon from taking off. Whether he meant to do this or not is not my current argument; it's the fact that this was the consequence of his actions.

 

You cannot argue otherwise. Because it doesn't make any sense to argue otherwise.

Nope Nope NOPE. Your argument is invalid

 

Three wagons means there is roughly ~33% chance of each getting lynched. Two wagons means each wagon is roughly ~50% likely to get lynched

 

Play better Tommy

This is absolutely false when the wagons are lopsided.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

It's far more likely town would make a joke like that; Nyn and I have brought up the same sentiments.

 

When Des brought up the Jester idea you said he was a consensus D1 town read and wasn't trying to get himself lynched, but said he was lolcatting (i.e. he's being obvious scum).

 

So again: when do you see scum being obvious, especially after having a reasonably good D1? When does scum out themselves unnecessarily like that?

Then I guess I don't understand his humor, because I didn't think it was a joke. I certainly didn't think it was a joke when he expressed the sentiment twice.

 

Second line is being pretty loose with what I said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm still worried Sili is either a Jester or playing towards his town wincon or something- this just seems too bizarre to pull off as scum

huh?

1. I know beyond the shadow of a doubt I didn't target Wombat last night

 

2. I really don't see ANY NA shenanigans that would have led him to believe that

 

Knowing both of those, there are three choices here

 

A. Sili is pulling the weakest scum gambit in history

 

B. He's a Jester trying to do everything g he can to get lynched

 

C. He's a townie pulling an incredibly stupid gambit that at this point would essentially be playing against his wincon for how distracting and destructive to towns chances of winning it is

Jester is plausible, but I really question his method for going about it. Most people were reading him as far more likely to be derpnoobtown D1 than scum. If he was TRYING to get lynched, I think he could have steered it in that direction.

I don't think that's being a "consensus townie". I might give you consensus probable townie, but I don't remember too many people completely clearing him.

 

 

And I can't give you an answer when scum outs themselves. When do vanilla townies fake results to get somebody lynch and then commit to it after their accused denies it?

Can I just get a straight answer?

 

Your reasoning for lynching him was that he outed himself by being obvious scum.

 

So when does scum do that?

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

Tom's posts this phase are pretty bad I'll admit

Why?

You're basically pulling the Salami move of trying to question an unclear obvious townies and making poor attempts to do so at that

Who, AJ? I am telling him to look in the mirror, not getting at him. But I just watched two games be lost due to blind spots. Wolves are miscleared in almost every game. It's still pretty early in the game and slots should be reassessed after unexpected developments.

You're trying to unclear AJ, trying to soft push against me, and clinging to your weak "case" on Yates. We're all town.

 

Furthermore you're basically not talking at all about people like Hallia or Leelou, people who SHOULD be consensus scum reads for any townie here

 

Furthermore you're trying to get us to search for the deep wolf instead of focus on obvscum, something YOU YOURSELF have harped on endlessly about lately while disparaging DM towns

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's funny that Yates gave me crap for hours for wanting to vote Hallia over Thane D1, then when I acquiesced and lynched Thane I get crap for defending Hallia? Makes me chuckle a bit. If you have time you should read that again.

So why did you lynch Thane?

Because Yates and Des were -really- sure and I thought I would be FOS'd strongly if Thane flipped scum and I had ignored the wagon all day, and there were some moments that I just felt meh about lynching Hallia, and it was still better to lynch someone who had been talked about a lot than the slanker SP.

And you only lynched Sili because the ninja comment, right?

It was the moment I thought it was likely he was lying since I have no idea where he would have heard of a ninja role unless it was an actual scum role and he messed up. I asked him where he saw it and he stopped responding.

 

Still don't know where it came from unless it was meant to be a forced slip.

 

Why did you think he was lolcatting with his votes before that? When does scum lolcat on D2 after being a mostly consensus town read?

Because I still thought he was scum from D1, and it was - and IMO, still is - highly unlikely that he was being made to move his vote a hundred times. Unless he was randomly given the post requirement of "spam your vote on everyone for no reason", there's basically no way him doing that was because he was being manipulated.

You think scum is going to say "damn I wish we would have just lynched that doc?"

 

The whole point of being scum is survival. Your reason for lynching him was that he was doing the opposite of that -- being abrasive and obvious.

 

When do you see scum do that?

You think town should be upset that the doctor claimed to prevent being mislynched?

 

And no, my reason for wanting to lynch him D1 is because his play didn't make sense to me from a town perspective. You don't just assume somebody is going to be town on the grounds that you "need them to be town" so you can trust them. He was happy just following you and Nyn blindly with minimal effort to discern your alignment. Then as soon as I claimed...he apparently no longer can trust you. That makes sense.

 

D2...I don't see how you can argue that the lynch came down to him or Despot. One of them was very clearly lying about their night activity, and I don't think town should be lying about results in order to get somebody lynched. I'm not going to apologize for trusting my town read to be telling the truth over my scum read.

Clov you arguing that the lynch should have DEFINITELY been between Sili and I yesterday only confirms you as scum here considering he was being controlled

 

His actions made no sense period, from either a Town or Scum POV (hence my Jester theory) and I shouldn't be lynched ever in that scenario

 

Conflicting NA situations DO NOT make for a black and white situation- mafia is always shades of grey and finding out if something more sinister is afoot (which it was)

 

 

No, it means I understand basic mafia concepts.

 

Player A: "I investigated B as scum."

Player B: "I'm town.  I don't know what to tell you, but you're wrong."

Player A: "No, I'm definitely the cop and you're definitely scum.  Everybody needs to lynch you."

 

 

One of those two HAS to be lying.  You couldn't have both targeted Wombat and NOT had a night action.  Your play made a hell of a lot more sense this game as town this game, so I went on Sili.  I don't see how you can NOT try to resolve that contradiction there.