[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

[Andrej]

I think I'm gonna go back to [v]Leelou[/v] and wait for HER to make me think she's town versus me talking myself out of it because I'm trying to be subjective in my reads.

[Andrej]

Also - Hi Clov.

 

Drop some truth ITT

[hazelkrs1]

Jester is plausible, but I really question his method for going about it. Most people were reading him as far more likely to be derpnoobtown D1 than scum. If he was TRYING to get lynched, I think he could have steered it in that direction.

I dunno tho, I kinda feel like he might HAVE been trying to steer it that way, ewpecially with how he kept saying how bad it was that you claimed... He said that multiple times

[Andrej]

Sili is town.

 

I don't get what's going on however. It's weird.

 

Do not lynch Sili.

 

Good night.

 

???

 

Explain your read here a bit, if you will.

 

 

Verb who do you think are scum?

 

I kind of want to lean town on you because I think you've made ~okay posts, although I don't think it'd be that hard for you to fake it if you were actually my enemy in this position.

 

Let's chit chat a bit.

 

How are you feeling about Leelou? Do you think my points have merit?

 

Feeling uneasy about Leelou.  I read her best when I can observe her interacting with people in real-time and "going after" people.  I'm not seeing it right now, so I'm wary.  D2 and onward is when I'm ready to take an official stance on her, but I haven't had interaction with her since yesterday.  Need moar.

 

Re: your point on her going after people who went after Nyn.....I would say I agree, and here's why:  I happen to think Yates is town.  I've provided my explanations, I think as a response to Tommy.  Point is, you seem to be wondering if he's being fishy with this whole Sili thing......but that doesn't mean I'm all over you for being scum.  I think it is a crutch for scum to just attack the attackers of whoever they are latching onto.  The problem is that I'm super-town on Nyn as well - so I don't know if Leelou is just seeing what I see.

 

It is totally different for people riding the coattails of their town reads, though.  Like we discussed before, you pointed out the difference between my suggestion of sheeping and what you were doing.  I was initially thinking "WTF AJ just contradicted himself" and thought I might have something.....but I think I was wrong on that.  Reading back on our posts, I think I understand what you were talking about with your explanation.  I'm not going to sheep Des on you, because I think Des is wrong.....but I still think Des is town.  That read has not changed, which is why I'm really looking forward to seeing how Des handles this thing with Sili.  I'm reluctant to vote Des, but I don't know if part of that is my not wanting to be that wrong, heh.....but also how Sili is acting with these votes and rapid changing of them.  Just weird.

 

This felt more wordy than it needed to be.

 

I get your points, but I don't understand why you add so many comparisons in to make them.

[Sili Quirrels]

[unvote]

[Sili Quirrels]

[v]desp[/v]

[unvote]

[unvote]

 

 

 

 

[v]tomripley[/v]

[Sili Quirrels]

[v]tom[/v]

[v]tom[/v]

[v]tom[/v]

[v]tom[/v]

[v]tom[/v]

[Andrej]

Ugh.

[Sili Quirrels]

[v]tom[/v]

[v]tom[/v]

[v]tom[/v]

[v]tom[/v]

[v]tom[/v]

[v]tom[/v]

[Sili Quirrels]

[unvote]

[v]sili quirres[/v]

[Clovdyx]

Also - Hi Clov.

 

Drop some truth ITT

 

Eh, I don't have too much truth to drop.  Today is very likely going to come down to Despot/Sili.  I've made my stance on Sili clear, and I still think Des is likely town, even if I don't understand where he's coming from on some things.  

 

I think Hallia made a good catch IRT to Sili saying there's a ninja.  I'm not sure scum!Hallia catches/pushes that, since she would know whether or not there is one, so I think that's good for her.  She also pointed out that Sili wasn't unvoting during his spam sessions.  

 

Still think Tom could be scum, especially if Sili is.  I spent all of D1 pointing out how the things Sili wasn't doing didn't make any sense from a town POV and Tom wrote him off every time as "he's a wolfy villager".  He immediately lynched Sili after the ninja comment but didn't address whether he thought Sili would make that claim as scum.

[Sili Quirrels]

[v]halia[/v]

[v]clov[/v]

[v]tomripley[/v]

[v]leelou[/v]

[Clovdyx]

Des, can you walk me through your read on Pral?

 

Oh and Pray is LOCK CLEAR as well btw

Hallia voting me with the quickness after Sili's claim looks mighty sketch, with the way she tried acting all cutely aghast

Tom looks MEGA SKETCHY for his terribad point on Yates before, looks Luke he was trying to link Yates and Hallia to either semi clear Hallia with a Yates town flip, or frame Yates with a Hallia scum flip

His point was terribad because Yates is totally right- he SUPPRESSED a CFD on a townie when doing so would actually have INCREASED the chances of scummate-in-this-scenario-Hallia getting lynched. Tommy got all mixed up there by trying to link the two with his point on SP

Alanna looking like she was trying to consider both sides but correcting Tommy about that looks townish imo

  

So right now my #solve is Hallia, Nyn, Leelou, and Tommy. Which is eerily like Pray's, proving once more the dude has terrific instincts

Oh and Tommy's tone with all the mock outrage stuff after EOD was incredibly wolfy. I'll pull stuff up later to show everything I'm talking about. Darlas on the laptop right now

 

 

Is it just that he's reaching the same conclusions you are?

[Clovdyx]

[v]halia[/v]

[v]clov[/v]

[v]tomripley[/v]

[v]leelou[/v]

 

The site rules don't allow me to tell you how annoying this is, but props for the Tom Ripley reference.

[hazelkrs1]

@Clov: Irt Pray- In short, yes, mindmelds, plus I usually find being willing to give out reads that are against the grain to be pretty townish but ESPECIALLY so in Pray's case, and I also thought he responded to others when pushed with good tone. Lastly associative based on who HAS pushed in him so far.

[Andrej]

 

Also - Hi Clov.

 

Drop some truth ITT

 

Eh, I don't have too much truth to drop.  Today is very likely going to come down to Despot/Sili.  I've made my stance on Sili clear, and I still think Des is likely town, even if I don't understand where he's coming from on some things.  

 

I think Hallia made a good catch IRT to Sili saying there's a ninja.  I'm not sure scum!Hallia catches/pushes that, since she would know whether or not there is one, so I think that's good for her.  She also pointed out that Sili wasn't unvoting during his spam sessions.  

 

Still think Tom could be scum, especially if Sili is.  I spent all of D1 pointing out how the things Sili wasn't doing didn't make any sense from a town POV and Tom wrote him off every time as "he's a wolfy villager".  He immediately lynched Sili after the ninja comment but didn't address whether he thought Sili would make that claim as scum.

 

If Sili turns out town/indy I don't think the 'catch' will look very good for Hallia. Even if he is a wolf I don't know if I would rule out w/w anyway - I mean - he's practically begging to get lynched and the 'slip' wasn't very subtle imo. Could also be a wifom seed in the event he does get lynched so now we're all paranoid about roles that may/may not be in the game. I'm not sure why him as a wolf would be trying to take the fall like he is today, if that's the case, but who knows.

 

I know that sounds really tinfoil-y but I seriously can't wrap my head around Sili's play right now. I agree that at this point I think it's probably impossible that someone is controlling him in the moment unless it's something like "spam votes all Day" which imo is extremely out there

[Clovdyx]

@Clov: Irt Pray- In short, yes, mindmelds, plus I usually find being willing to give out reads that are against the grain to be pretty townish but ESPECIALLY so in Pray's case, and I also thought he responded to others when pushed with good tone. Lastly associative based on who HAS pushed in him so far.

 

I'll concede that going against the grain usually looks good, but I don't like his lack of progression.  After his initial reads list (posted on the 13th), I pointed out a lot of issues I had with the reads he posted in the context he presented them.  If he had just recently began pushing Nyn/Leelou/Tommy, I wouldn't have too much of an issue - but remember, he said he formed those reads after the first 50 pages.  The order was basically identical two days later, except that he dropped Sili from null to scum.   That was after pages 51-100.

 

I might be misremembering Pral's town game, but I don't think he's that likely to tunnel the same people and ignore new evidence for them (or against others).

 

1-50 reads:

 

 

 

Back from the weekend and ended up catching the game upto 50 pages. Still 50 more to go. Sigh.

 

Let me clear out my town reads so far in the game.

 

AJ: I like the tone of his posts so far. More like trying to solve the game. It is difficult to just clear him based on meta but from what I have seen, I didn't see any opportunistic votes. his only serious vote was on Wombat and he did not vote him until he was perfectly clear why. This seems town AJ here

 

Des: Des typically tends to focus more on small things and tunnel when he is scum. As town, he is more looking around and changing his reads often early D1. Posts like these makes me trust Des is town

 

All my town reads are fading like a Michael J. Fox picture

 

I disagree with some of his reads though but so far he is looking good.

 

Alanna: Difficult to catch Alanna as scum so early in the game and would need to see her vote patterns before making a read on her. But so far she has clearly given out her reads and made her stances, like in these posts and here. I like those and feel she is genuine here.

 

 

 

Now, on to slightly town reads. 

 

Womby: Again, someone difficult to read early in the game. His post-by-post analysis is what he usually does as town. He voted Sili and since unvoted, which is generally fine as he has given his reasons and detailed analysis. His responses to Tommy and Andrej have seemed good so far. What I didn't like was his entrance declaring that he will be slanking. Now, that is not something that I would have expected from Wombat and that seems slightly bad. 

 

Thane: You can typically catch Thane as he is an instinctive player and tends to do slip slightly in the heat of the game. SO, far I have not seen anything that makes Thane stand out. He has been kind of active initially, which seems a bit odd but I can see that as an initial excitement which he has usually at the start of the game. His response ot pressure of the votes on him seemed townish .... like this and this. 

 

Csarmi: Csarmi has been quite active and in a way his activity points to him being town. His self-vote on getting minor pressure was weird but apparently this is not the first time he has done as town. So, that's a null in itself. Otherwise, he is posting fine.

 

 

 

Now, the nulls and slight scums.

 

Sili: I don't know his meta and frankly his posts have not made a lot of sense to me. I see him make an effort to give reads on players and votes but Will need to see his voting patterns to get better reads.

 

Yates and SP: Null till what I have read. 

 

Verbal: Mainly a gut feel.He goes after an easy catch Thane and nudges csarmi here. Would need to see more from him before getting a good read on him.

 

Clov: His initial Leelou gambit was meh. He clears Tommy quite fast. Here he says that if Tommy is scum, he would come after him for voting Leelou and since he didn't come hard, he feels Tommy is town. But, Tommy did indeed come back later on Clov and it is worrying that he still feels he is town.

 

 

Now the scums:

 

Hally: Lot more playful than I have seen. Something that she did as scum in the Spaceballs game too. Buddies Tom randomly here , votes AJ randomly etc. Her vote on Alanna was fair but follows it by quickly unvoting her and randomly votes Wombat. Something off here. 

  

Leelou: A lot sparse than usual. I read the whole thing that she has been scum 6 straight games. A town Leelou would have questioned lurkers by now and not lurk herself :)

 

Nyn: Her play this game seems odd. On one hand, she is trying well to try and solve the game. But, I feel there are these slight nudges that makes me feel bad about her. Things like these. Subtle hints to vig someone. 

Can someone please vig Clov tonight? mkaythanks.

 

Or, even when she has a scum read on Csarmi, trying to play really safe

 

Salami, spare me.

 

 

 

For the sake of my sanity, I'm gonna be putting Salami on mute for the rest of the game.

 

 

Still game on lynching him, but if everyone else isn't interested then I'll drop it for now.

 

It is a bit difficult to get a good read of Nynaeve and I try to see these subtle posts and that's what makes me feel she is scum. 

 

She is also buddying with Tommy and leelou and both are my scum reads. All three went after Clov. She went after Csarmi along with Tommy. Don't think it is mindmeld !

 

Tommy: I always tinfoil on Tommy. One of the ways that I try to see is if he goes after opportunistic pushes. As town, he is usually shopping around to see how people react to pressure. As scum, he catches small errors by townies and that is exactly what I am seeing in this game. Whether going after Thane talking about his cockiness, or against Clov for his "gambit against Leelou" or against Wombat for his opening tone. Those are all easy pushes and that is what he has been pursuing. Really think he is scum this game.

 

 

 

 

My issues

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with a lot of this stuff.

 

Me - I didn't say anything remotely close to what you're claiming I did.  You're saying I claimed "Tom would address this if he's scum"; I said "He wouldn't address this if he's scum". Him coming at me isn't scumtelling, it's towntelling; he (quite understandably) didn't follow why I was voting her so engaging me gives him an opportunity to evaluate my thought process.  Tom as mafia would know I'm town and doesn't NEED to evaluate my thought process.  The only plausible reason to get at me for it as scum is if he's teammates with Leelou.

 

Leelou - I really don't have any insight on whether or not she would question lurkers, but that seems like a pretty weak suspicion.  Do you associate her town game as really vocal or spammy?  Also, I see nowhere in the first fifty pages she went after me.  If you haven't read the most recent pages, I'm very interested to know where you got the impression she had.

 

Nyn - First, I think you're misrepping her suspicion as a subtle nudge.  Nyn has been the person who put forth the most effort into actually casing/explaining a lean on me IMO, and I'm pretty sure I'm her top scum suspect.  I don't appreciate the vig request, but at the same time, if she's really that convinced....why wouldn't she want me shot?

 

Second, what are you thinking she's buddying them with?  If you're talking about the similar reads, you should be more suspicious of Tom/Leelou.  Nyn was the first person to accuse me, and she went after Csarmi pretty quickly.  Leelou got her vote in first, but Nyn was only a few minutes behind despite doing an ISO on him.  It could have been coordinated, but she's certainly not portraying a sheeping of his read.

 

Tom - First, you said he went at Csarmi (in your Nyn section).  He questioned him once, but I'm pretty sure he was already hard defending Csarmi within the first fifty pages.  I'll go back and check to see, but that seems really inconsistent with how the thread went down.  Also don't like the implication that Wombat, Thane, and me are town Tom is nitpicking, when you only have slight town reads on them and a slight scum read on me.

 

 

 

 

 

Reads seemingly through page 100.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, this is where I am

 

AJ

Des

Alanna

Womby

Thane

Csarmi

Yates

SP

Verbal

Nyn

Tommy

Clov

Hally

Sili

Leelou

 

 

 

 

[hazelkrs1]

Come on AJ, "spam votes all day"? Besides how immediately unlikely that would be, the obv protown move there then would be to just... Walk away

 

 

From the thread and not post much all day

[Clovdyx]

 

 

Also - Hi Clov.

 

Drop some truth ITT

 

Eh, I don't have too much truth to drop.  Today is very likely going to come down to Despot/Sili.  I've made my stance on Sili clear, and I still think Des is likely town, even if I don't understand where he's coming from on some things.  

 

I think Hallia made a good catch IRT to Sili saying there's a ninja.  I'm not sure scum!Hallia catches/pushes that, since she would know whether or not there is one, so I think that's good for her.  She also pointed out that Sili wasn't unvoting during his spam sessions.  

 

Still think Tom could be scum, especially if Sili is.  I spent all of D1 pointing out how the things Sili wasn't doing didn't make any sense from a town POV and Tom wrote him off every time as "he's a wolfy villager".  He immediately lynched Sili after the ninja comment but didn't address whether he thought Sili would make that claim as scum.

 

If Sili turns out town/indy I don't think the 'catch' will look very good for Hallia. Even if he is a wolf I don't know if I would rule out w/w anyway - I mean - he's practically begging to get lynched and the 'slip' wasn't very subtle imo. Could also be a wifom seed in the event he does get lynched so now we're all paranoid about roles that may/may not be in the game. I'm not sure why him as a wolf would be trying to take the fall like he is today, if that's the case, but who knows.

 

I know that sounds really tinfoil-y but I seriously can't wrap my head around Sili's play right now. I agree that at this point I think it's probably impossible that someone is controlling him in the moment unless it's something like "spam votes all Day" which imo is extremely out there

 

 

You're right his statement wasn't subtle at all, but I just don't get the feeling she'd pick up on that as something to push a mislynch on/need to bus a teammate over.  I guess a teammate could have pointed it out on a QT and she used it in the thread.

[Andrej]

I guess Sili could be a goon and he's taking the fall so that his PRs can bus/gain town cred or something like that.

 

This whole thing is just so out there that I don't even know what to think of it.

[hazelkrs1]

I don't think Pray will give much of an easy to follow progression on his reads Clov, when he's trying to catch up to so many pages a day in his limited playing window

 

That right there makes it very likely that there will be big jumps that might not be easy to follow

 

Fact is tho, this IS townie for him, and as town he often has Killer Instincts

 

[hazelkrs1]

Man I loved that game

 

Also, I'm on a roll! That's two badass and relevant pop culture references in a row

 

[hazelkrs1]

I guess Sili could be a goon and he's taking the fall so that his PRs can bus/gain town cred or something like that.

 

This whole thing is just so out there that I don't even know what to think of it.

[hazelkrs1]

Kk that's enough gif spam for me

[Clovdyx]

I don't think Pray will give much of an easy to follow progression on his reads Clov, when he's trying to catch up to so many pages a day in his limited playing window

 

That right there makes it very likely that there will be big jumps that might not be easy to follow

 

Fact is tho, this IS townie for him, and as town he often has Killer Instincts

 

He does have great instincts, but I feel like I can usually understand where he's coming from.  Some of his scumreads seemed to be based on things that were either awful interpretations (Nyn asking her top scum candidate to be vigged) or just factually incorrect from the posts he was working with, though (Hallia being too playful, Leelou going after me).