[Advanced] Woodstock 1969 Mafia - Town wins

[csarmi]

DT is highly likely to be not mafia faction given his reaction. Either that or he's highly savvy.

Yes I liked his reaction too. I didn't like Dice's reaction.

[csarmi]

Okay I'll be around a little real-time while programming. Ask away.

[Tommyrod]

Maybe it is just Krak. I believe from Des's analysis Krak looked most suspect, no?

 

I'm annoyed at this gamestate though. Something's off.

 

Des why were you clearing Dice again? How do you tell scum dice from town dice?

[csarmi]

Tommy I'm even tinfoiling a little on Dice AND Des TBH. I don't see why Des would be clear (and he's talkign way too much for a Des on how he is clear).

 

Yes his bussing/voting pattern is pro.

 

My current take.

 

Dice is 35% scum (from 5% yesterday)

Despo is up to 20% or so

Drunk is pure wifom (50%?)

Tommy 0% scum

Thane 10% scum (Tommy, if you are absolutely sure that he is doc by his earlier hinting and the way he claimed we can clear him I like his play this game a lot)

Krak honestly dunno. He gave me town vibes. I'd put him under Dice actually.

Vos: 0% scum

[Krakalakachkn]

Will someone seriously tell me why Des is so lock clear?

[Krakalakachkn]

Because his last few posts are really bad

[csarmi]

@Tommy - I used to think I would catch Dice by D2 if he was scum (and did it several time). I think it was about his approach and especially his reaction to pressure (he would get very speculative on setup, prone to switching to defensive/WiFoM mode, skips discussing stuff that matter). I didn't see that here so I gave him town lean.

 

Now he jumped on my radar but I may be very wrong. Somehow he gets mislynched a LOT in late game which is nonsensical cause as scum he tends to get caught D1-D3 anyway.

[csarmi]

Tommy, can you tell me that Des is town here for sure? Why are you guys clearing him? Serious question.

[Tommyrod]

I would not say he's lock clear but his effort has gone up since the emo died down. His persistence is notable. He reads like town to me. He's current and trying to lead. Scum Des rarely leads; he eggs on from behind and is perpetually not caught up with the thread.

[csarmi]

Will someone seriously tell me why Des is so lock clear?

Seconded. And unless you believe both Krak AND me are scum, you should take it seriously.

 

Tell me.

[Tommyrod]

Because his last few posts are really bad

Please counter it.

[Tommyrod]

You guys should be actively showing me why Des is scummy instead of passively asking me why he's clear.

[Krakalakachkn]

First off he comes in to defend DT.  I can believe that someone is more likely to see DT's slip as a mistake.  The way Des charges in though does not seem like Town!Des.

[csarmi]

I would not say he's lock clear but his effort has gone up since the emo died down. His persistence is notable. He reads like town to me. He's current and trying to lead. Scum Des rarely leads; he eggs on from behind and is perpetually not caught up with the thread.

I can agree with this assessment actually. Gameplay-wise (in total) he looks town to me.

[csarmi]

FTR, I agree with Des, from Drunk messing up his char claim you can only infer a lot of WiFoM (either a townie not paying enough attention or a scumster being savvy). Obviously he must be what he claimed for the second time.

[Thane Vakarian]

i'm still thinking that DT messed up... if you claim, be certain of it. Doesn't matter if you're town or scum, it's bad for you

[csarmi]

i'm still thinking that DT messed up... if you claim, be certain of it. Doesn't matter if you're town or scum, it's bad for you

Sure. But we wanna lynch the scum, not the bad players.

[Thane Vakarian]

playing bad doesn't exclude you from being scum, as we have witnessed

[Krakalakachkn]

You guys are dumb dumb dumb

 

It was confirmed long ago that the characters mean nothing in this game. Scum will have valid musicians as well, they just got possessed by baddies from the future.

 

So taking DT's slip as a "scumslip" is retarded. It in no way confirms him as scum.

 

Furthermore while I don't like his attitude, everything about his behavior today screams that he isn't scum. Just an apathetic townie. Does it make it so that he deserves to be lynched anyways? Possibly. But he basically has like zero chance of being scum now in my mind. He isn't fighting his lynch whatsoever, realizes town can afford mislynches. Scum might be disheartened by everything and not put up MUCH of a fight, but if they truly didn't care about resisting their lynch at all they'd just go ahead and either concede or admit to being scum.

 

Tbh all this does is make me think Csarmi is scum for the way he's trying to act about it and urge DT to self-hammer (he is always up for policy voting someone who self-votes).

 

But yeah, DT is town so lynching him is pointless, unless yall think it would shame him for being apathetic. I doubt it would affect him at all.

 

Last scum is either Krak or Csarmi. Or both maybe, and they had more than normal to counter all the town PR's. I'd be down to lynch either.

 

Not wasting my vote on a townie when it's possible we can win this today.

 

It's not about the character DT claimed, it's about the fact that he claimed a character someone else already claimed.  If I had claimed Joe Cocker and CS had reminded everyone he had already claimed Joe, my lynch would have finished up lightning quick with Des all over my claim.

 

Now he's suddenly off his bulldog tunnel vision and CS is in the running for scum.

 

 

And look at his reasoning for why DT is town.  And not just town, "basically has like zero chance to be scum."

 

His first line sets up his argument, cool.  Second line is fluff.  Next two sentences are kinda wtf Des?  Next line does nothing but go back to his original argument w/out offering anything.  This sentence finally gives up a reason, he's not fighting his lynch.  Wifom.  End of defense. Not a great case for someone he's suddenly 100% is town.

 

Also, the whole "DT is town so lynching him is pointless, unless yall think it would shame him for being apathetic. I doubt it would affect him at all."

is weird to me.  Why would town!Des be willing to entertain this notion, and not only entertain it but offer it as a viable play at this point?  Yeah I know we have mislynch opportunities here, but I think town!Des would be more focused on finishing the game off instead of trying to teach Drunk a lesson.  He also offers no reasons DT might have slipped in such an obvious way, kinda goes out of his way to ignore it?

[Krakalakachkn]

 

true. [v]Drunk Tank [/v]

 

 

I dont expect he'll have much to say

 

These posts are making me tinfoil slightly about Lan. First of all he cased DT somewhat but didn't actually vote him until Tommy did first, and that's def questionable, but then when Tommy mentions that we can see what DT will say when he gets here Lan says that he doesn't think Lan will have much to say, which looks like him trying to push through the lynch on someone he doesn't think will fight it hard, which is actually pretty scummy

 

 

I'm guessing your talking about me. I've been reading along. I have two other games going elsewhere and frankly checked out after the silly symp thingy.

 

I'm Joe Cocker VT.

You sure?

 

*checks role pm again*

 

 

 

I'm still Joe Cocker and vanilla town FYI.

 

 

Yeah I'm good with my vote where it is.

 

 

And I've claimed it day one.

 

I don't even know what to say...

 

This reaction by Csarmi looks more scummy than townie for him. If he were town he wouldn't pussyfoot around with it, he'd just say "Uh no, I'm Joe Cocker" and either vote him immediately or say he prob screwed up and forgot his character. Csarmi instead overdoes the incredulous act to try and make DT look worse than he did

 

Krak's reaction just looks like a scum that got saved by the bell

 

 

You sure?

 

*checks role pm again*

 

 

derp. I'm sorry I had to go and reread it. It's John Fogerty. Sorry for the confusion. I hadn't read it since day one so yeah whatever. It's the guy from CCR.

 

 

This is totally believable to me that DT could have made this mistake. For instance I don't even remember who my character is, I normally don't care much about that aspect of themed games anyways and this one makes them even less important

 

You could have at least tried to claim cop

 

Lan again doesn't look great here for this comment- Tommy had already claimed cop way back on D1, so DT claiming cop would have been sooooooo much worse and a legit scumslip or something. Lan just looks like he's trying to push through a mislynch, not make sure he's lynching scum

 

If he messed up accidentally that makes him more likely to be town actually. Scum is less likely to forget their character or their fame claim.

 

He could have done it on purpose for wifom as Mafia.

He could have done it by accident as town.

He could have done it by accident as Mafia.

 

In order of likelyhood IMO.

 

Dice what are your thoughts?

 

Besides being happy to end tthe DAyT asap.

 

Oh please. Acting like DT doing that on purpose for wifom is the most likely scenario is one of the most ridiculous things he's said all game, and he's had some doozies.

 

DT is still newer to this site, not new to mafia, but his interest level in games in general here and this game specifically show that he isn't one to go for gambits or stunts regularly.

 

The FAR more likely scenario is exactly what he said- that he forgot his character. They both start with J, and Joe Cocker had been discussed before, and as a VT he likely hadn't checked his PM since the game started.

 

Dice just got +30% scum EV tho. No comment no nothing just spec on how its not close and vote.

 

This is just an opportunistic as hell fos from Salami. Looks like he's trying to set up future lynches, since he could spin this looking bad for Dice whether DT flipped town or scum

 

What can he say? What are the odds csarmi pulls a random name outofI the air on day one and it just happens to be the same as DT's role?

 

Again with the "What can he say?" line, as if DT's scumminess is already assured

 

 

Drunk pls if you are town, show it. Give your thoughts on people. We need your take. Just play a little more.

 

I couldn't remember my guys name and besides you may as well lynch me and see I'm VT and move along. We have most of the scum dead so my mislynch is irrelevant.

 

 

Again much more likely to be an apathetic townie reaction than a scum trying to AtE out of a lynch at L-1 or disheartened scum giving up

 

Meh.

 

He has until I get to work then I banner if he shows no cooperation.

 

Csarmi trying to keep his hands clean off the lynch and instead urging DT to self-hammer is ridonkulous scummy

 

Dice Translation:

 

"I know that Drunk is town (from my role PM) but I'm votign him anyway for pressure. When he flips town I'll push Krak/Des."

 

Again an opportunistic push and imo Salami trying to set up Dice's lynch.

 

So Salami acts like he is sure DT needs to be lynched today because he's likely scum, even tho that's dumb, then is already trying to make Dice look worse with a DT townflip. Salami looking absurdly scummy and opportunistic with his last few posts.

 

Also worried there's more than one scum after all, since that would make sense for how Csarmi is acting, like they might only be two mislynches away from winning or something

 

So, Des.. Krak or Csarmi ey?

 

well... i can change back to Krak or vote Csarms. The slip on DT's part though was very weird. I sincerely doubt that you don't get your character right when you claim, especially since the name was already claimed D1.... 

 

Those two are def my highest choices for scum, altho I'm tinfoiling on Lan a bit.

 

The slip on DT's part is a bit weird I guess, but def doesn't make him look scummy in any way. Scum don't need fake claims in this game.

 

 

First off Des previously stated he was saving any tin foiling for after my lynch, should I flip town.  Now he's tin foiling on Lan when he was previously 100% convinced I was scum.

 

His next set of posts are worthless bc he's crafting a metanarrative and engaging in meta wifom.

 

Defends DT by saying he can' even remember his own character name.  That's a backhanded attempt at a town tell right there from Des, for both himself and Drunk.  He's trying to say only town would be likely to forget their characters because scum need to be on top of that shiz.  Again, who cares about that, the point is that he claimed the character CS had already claimed.  He fake claimed and got it wrong.

 

Weak push on Lan.

 

Lol didn't realize Des came out and claimed his hidden town!tell on the first read.  His point about Salami's attempt at a wifom puzzle is ill-advised, but I love the whole "They both start with J" argument.

 

Salami is setting up lynches….what is Des doing with his tin foiling on Lan and recent claims that CS is scum?  When he was still convinced I'm 100% the last scum.

 

Next is ???

 

My last point to address is his last bit on Salami.  Yeah, I don't really like the "translation" thing, but at this point several people are basically setting up future lynches, yourself included.  To pin that on CS is to pin it on yourself.

[csarmi]

@Tommy - what is it that makes you tinfoil on me, that distracts you from being able to clear me? How can I help you to read me properly?

[hazelkrs1]

Maybe it is just Krak. I believe from Des's analysis Krak looked most suspect, no?

 

I'm annoyed at this gamestate though. Something's off.

 

Des why were you clearing Dice again? How do you tell scum dice from town dice?

 

I cleared Dice much earlier in the game due to him holding to his stance. Was a tone and meta read but I felt very confident in it. I gauged him again later on, he passed. TG spew tho confirmed him as town even more so.

 

SPECIFICALLY the "Des spewed Dice as scum" jargon that TG tried pushing for a while, then mistakenly thinking Dice had chainsaw defended me by attacking Csarmi, even tho Dice had done the exact opposite.

 

Dice is not TG's teammate this game.

 

You guys should be actively showing me why Des is scummy instead of passively asking me why he's clear.

 

This

 

First off he comes in to defend DT.  I can believe that someone is more likely to see DT's slip as a mistake.  The way Des charges in though does not seem like Town!Des.

 

Bold is soft push and also wrong. Town!Des (which I am this game) gets irritated when he sees CFD's happen on stupid reasoning when the game is close to being won for town.

 

 

I would not say he's lock clear but his effort has gone up since the emo died down. His persistence is notable. He reads like town to me. He's current and trying to lead. Scum Des rarely leads; he eggs on from behind and is perpetually not caught up with the thread.

I can agree with this assessment actually. Gameplay-wise (in total) he looks town to me.

 

 

Pfft. You say this while alternatively continuously saying you're tinfoiling on me or trying to keep me as a viable suspect.

 

Salami talking out of both corners of his mouth like it's a thing to do

 

i'm still thinking that DT messed up... if you claim, be certain of it. Doesn't matter if you're town or scum, it's bad for you

 

DT def messed up, but his mistake doesn't in any way confirm him as scum or even make him look more likely to be scum.

 

 

i'm still thinking that DT messed up... if you claim, be certain of it. Doesn't matter if you're town or scum, it's bad for you

Sure. But we wanna lynch the scum, not the bad players.

 

 

This. Glad we can agree on something Salami (tho you're still prob scum here)

[hazelkrs1]

 

You guys are dumb dumb dumb

 

It was confirmed long ago that the characters mean nothing in this game. Scum will have valid musicians as well, they just got possessed by baddies from the future.

 

So taking DT's slip as a "scumslip" is retarded. It in no way confirms him as scum.

 

Furthermore while I don't like his attitude, everything about his behavior today screams that he isn't scum. Just an apathetic townie. Does it make it so that he deserves to be lynched anyways? Possibly. But he basically has like zero chance of being scum now in my mind. He isn't fighting his lynch whatsoever, realizes town can afford mislynches. Scum might be disheartened by everything and not put up MUCH of a fight, but if they truly didn't care about resisting their lynch at all they'd just go ahead and either concede or admit to being scum.

 

Tbh all this does is make me think Csarmi is scum for the way he's trying to act about it and urge DT to self-hammer (he is always up for policy voting someone who self-votes).

 

But yeah, DT is town so lynching him is pointless, unless yall think it would shame him for being apathetic. I doubt it would affect him at all.

 

Last scum is either Krak or Csarmi. Or both maybe, and they had more than normal to counter all the town PR's. I'd be down to lynch either.

 

Not wasting my vote on a townie when it's possible we can win this today.

 

It's not about the character DT claimed, it's about the fact that he claimed a character someone else already claimed.  If I had claimed Joe Cocker and CS had reminded everyone he had already claimed Joe, my lynch would have finished up lightning quick with Des all over my claim.

 

Now he's suddenly off his bulldog tunnel vision and CS is in the running for scum.

 

 

And look at his reasoning for why DT is town.  And not just town, "basically has like zero chance to be scum."

 

His first line sets up his argument, cool.  Second line is fluff.  Next two sentences are kinda wtf Des?  Next line does nothing but go back to his original argument w/out offering anything.  This sentence finally gives up a reason, he's not fighting his lynch.  Wifom.  End of defense. Not a great case for someone he's suddenly 100% is town.

 

Also, the whole "DT is town so lynching him is pointless, unless yall think it would shame him for being apathetic. I doubt it would affect him at all."

is weird to me. Why would town!Des be willing to entertain this notion, and not only entertain it but offer it as a viable play at this point? Yeah I know we have mislynch opportunities here, but I think town!Des would be more focused on finishing the game off instead of trying to teach Drunk a lesson. He also offers no reasons DT might have slipped in such an obvious way, kinda goes out of his way to ignore it?

 

 

I wouldn't have given two flips about the character claim thing REGARDLESS of who it came from. And don't try to act like you know how I would have behaved in a certain situation when you don't. Character claims are absolutely meaningless in this game. Entirely for flavor. Scum could be any musician.

 

I still think you're scum but momentum is dying on your lynch. Csarmi in the meanwhile is looking terrible in the last day, and he hasn't looked great all game tbh.

 

My wording of "zero chance to be scum" isn't really that important- what's important is the reasoning behind it. DT reacted in exactly how I would expect an apathetic townie to react once he started getting pressure. He was at L-1 and still completely ambivalent about being lynched. Disheartened scum just concedes or scumclaims or self votes there. Doesn't do the laziest AtE attempt ever in a try at saving their skin.

 

Last paragraph is either misrepping me or completely misunderstanding what I was saying. I WASN'T really entertaining it as a viable option. I think lynching DT to "punish" him for not properly defending himself is stupid, and I certainly wouldn't support it.

 

And the last line, about me not offering any reasons why DT slipped, is absolute hogwash horseshit. I believe I mentioned numerous times, at least twice and maybe thrice, that DT as a VT, and an apathetic townie, likely hadn't checked his role PM since the start of the game, and that he prob saw Joe Cocker being mentioned earlier and that bled through into his subconscious. It's reasonable and makes sense and regardless, scum don't need fake claims so him slipping doesn't make him look any worse AT ALL.

 

Krak still absurdly likely to be scum btw.

 

1. First off Des previously stated he was saving any tin foiling for after my lynch, should I flip town.  Now he's tin foiling on Lan when he was previously 100% convinced I was scum.

 

2. His next set of posts are worthless bc he's crafting a metanarrative and engaging in meta wifom.

 

3. Defends DT by saying he can' even remember his own character name.  That's a backhanded attempt at a town tell right there from Des, for both himself and Drunk.  He's trying to say only town would be likely to forget their characters because scum need to be on top of that shiz.  Again, who cares about that, the point is that he claimed the character CS had already claimed.  He fake claimed and got it wrong.

 

4. Weak push on Lan.

 

5. Lol didn't realize Des came out and claimed his hidden town!tell on the first read.  His point about Salami's attempt at a wifom puzzle is ill-advised, but I love the whole "They both start with J" argument.

 

6. Salami is setting up lynches….what is Des doing with his tin foiling on Lan and recent claims that CS is scum?  When he was still convinced I'm 100% the last scum.

 

7. Next is ???

 

8. My last point to address is his last bit on Salami.  Yeah, I don't really like the "translation" thing, but at this point several people are basically setting up future lynches, yourself included.  To pin that on CS is to pin it on yourself.

 

1. Momentum stalled on your lynch. I can't help but react to recent developments. But while you're partially correct here, this also reeks of opportunism at you trying to "catch" me in something I said before.

 

2. buzzword buzzword buzzword and also you're completely wrong here- meta honestly had nothing to do with what I was saying. I was studying his reaction to DT's slip and coming to the conclusion that it looked fake and more likely to come from scum!Salami.

 

3. Not remembering your character's name isn't a towntell, and I never tried acting like it was. It's also not a scumtell, not in this setup. IT IS A NULLTELL. Characters are pointless outside of flavor, so someone forgetting their character means nothing to me. And scum would have NO REASON TO FAKE CLAIM. The ONLY reason I brought up how I forgot my own character's name is to speculate how DT might have gotten it wrong.

 

4. How is it weak? Don't just say something without backing it up. I CLEARLY stated how Lan's posts looked kinda bad, like he was trying to push through a mislynch with how he kept saying "What could he say?" as if DT's scumminess was already predetermined or something.

 

5. I don't even get what you're trying to say here. Are you actually trying to say anything here? Legit question

 

6. I'm stating my suspicions. I'm not trying to set someone else up for a lynch based on how someone else flips. Csarmi was trying to act like Dice knew DT would flip town. ERGO, if DT flipped town Csarmi could attack Dice on TMI. My suspicions atm aren't very associative, most of my reads I'm pretty confident in. I think you're very likely to be scum, I think Csarmi is very likely to be scum, and I think there is a slight chance Lan might be scum after all.

 

7. ??? Again, are you trying to say anything here?

 

8. I'm not trying to set up any lynches based on how someone flips. I have a very limited pool of candidates that scum could be hiding within. I think if town lynches from that pool we are essentially guaranteed to win. You otoh, are trying to get anyone but you and Csarmi lynched. Pretty much anyone. Csarmi is "tinfoiling" on people on very poor reasoning and is trying to get DT to self-hammer while also setting it up to make Dice look bad if DT flips town. That's ridic scummy, and for you to compare that to what I'm doing is insane.

[hazelkrs1]

Also wanna point out an absolute blatant contradiction from Csarmi recently-

 

He sees a couple of votes on him, so acts all non-chalant BUT states that people should wait to lynch him so he can get reads out because he's been skimming (which is dogshit btw, he's been posting here and in the moment and paying attention, I don't buy for a second that he would need to gather himself to get reads out)

 

THEN, when he sees Tommy switch track and vote him, Csarmi self-votes

 

THIS COMPLETELY CONTRADICTS WHAT HE JUST SAID

 

If Csarmi was trying to act all protown and keep from getting speedhammered before he could get out reads WHY IN THE WORLD would he then self-vote to make it more likely that a scum can come in and ninjahammer, or a townie derp and ninjahammer?

 

This does not in ANY way make sense from a town!Csarmi perspective.

 

Furthermore this is now the second time Csarmi has pulled the self-vote card, even tho I've seen him scold others for the same type of behavior in other game and even in this one somewhat by trying to scold DT for bailing out.

 

Anyone who thinks this is a town!Csarmi needs to GTFO.

[Tommyrod]

Des can you remind me what spew points to Krak as scum