#Gamergate

[Verbal32]

Apparently one of the few places left to discuss Gamergate openly, The Escapist forums, was DDOS'd yesterday. Specifically the Gamergate thread.

Still wondering how far this thing is going to go. 

 

Meanwhile here's a nice parody from /v/ before moot nuked 4chan for his girlfriend.

 

 

I don't understand what you mean.  How was a specific thread DDOSed?  That isn't how DDOSing works, so I'm thinking I misunderstood.

[Verbal32]

These people don't know what the hell they're doing.

They can't review games in any meaningful way that's relevant to the people actually buying games.

Put all of the other negative crap aside and you are still left with companies that are incompetent at best and malicious to the very industry they're supposed to cover at worst.

 

Dunno man, a review is at its core very subjective.  I think people realize that.  If they don't, then that is their problem.  I've read some reviews that were excellent, and others that left me wondering if they tried the same game I did, lol.  Either way, I think most gamers find a reviewer they seem to agree with, and just follow their advice a little more than the rest.

[Nolder]

 

Apparently one of the few places left to discuss Gamergate openly, The Escapist forums, was DDOS'd yesterday. Specifically the Gamergate thread.

 

I don't understand what you mean.  How was a specific thread DDOSed?  That isn't how DDOSing works, so I'm thinking I misunderstood.

 

Right? I am not a technical wizard so I don't understand that either.

I'm guessing the entire site was attacked.

Regardless this came directly from a co-founder of Escapist though so it is legit.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/09/20/the-escapist-forums-brought-down-in-ddos-attack/

 

 

These people don't know what the hell they're doing.

They can't review games in any meaningful way that's relevant to the people actually buying games.

Put all of the other negative crap aside and you are still left with companies that are incompetent at best and malicious to the very industry they're supposed to cover at worst.

 

Dunno man, a review is at its core very subjective.  I think people realize that.  If they don't, then that is their problem.  I've read some reviews that were excellent, and others that left me wondering if they tried the same game I did, lol.  Either way, I think most gamers find a reviewer they seem to agree with, and just follow their advice a little more than the rest.

 

Yes reviews are subjective, but many of these writers are clearly ideologically driven (Patricia Hernandez, Leigh Alexander, etc) and often do not understand the games they're reviewing. This isn't a matter of disagreeing with opinion it's a matter of these people don't know what they're doing and they don't give a damn. They're writing for an industry they don't like and making money off the backs of enthusiasts while openly mocking and attacking them.

 

Let me relate this back to something I think people here can understand easier.

Dragonmount used to post a lot of news and opinions regarding Wheel of Time and related stuff.

I don't know if that still happens since the series ended since I stopped checking the front page.

But imagine a few people are brought in to write about Wheel of Time. They hate fantasy. They think you're all virgin loser nerds for liking Wheel of Time.

They throw a lot of vile rhetoric out about Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson, and hell others like Neil Gaiman and Terry Brooks. Imagine the worst criticisms you've seen over the years and then imagine that ramped up even higher with more vitriol. They say those authors are bad people for what they write and you're bad people for enjoying it. You're likened to neo nazis and the KKK. All the examples they give show they've never read any of the books, in fact they openly admit they don't like to read. Many people who are movie and TV buffs read and comment on these articles, joining in on the trash talking of WoT/RJ/Fantasy/books/etc. Fans comment and defend but are quickly shouted down and insulted if not banned by administration. Meanwhile the writers are making money while trashing the things you love. Now it's going mainstream and major newspapers and magazines are talking about WoT but not in a good way. "Fans of a violent and racist book series harassed and threatened renowned book critic for a well thought out piece they viewed as attacking their sub culture. Book reviewer said some comments were scary and are now reporting these trolls to law enforcement. Due to this a major studio which had optioned the series has now sold the rights wanting nothing to do with the controversy. Wife of the late author disgusted that people would do such a thing and condemns these harassers." Suddenly you're not criticizing someone who wormed their way into your hobby, you're now guilty of harassment and publicly branded as one of those people.

 

This is what's going on. We're not just fighting against some people with opinions we don't like we're fighting for our hobby and culture here.

If we lose gamer becomes a dirty word again for a long time and I don't even want to think about what's going to happen to games themselves.

Game devs are often dependent on the journalists for interviews and promotion. What happens when a game dev makes a game these ideologically driven thugs don't like? You can bet they'll be blacklisted, it's already happened. And then we see devs changing their games to suit the journalists. Imagine GTA where you can't kill random civilians. Imagine Mortal Kombat without fatalities. Imagine an Elder Scrolls game without Imperials, Nords, and Bretons. Imagine Gears of War with no blood. That's the future of games if this goes wrong. Mark my words.

[Nolder]

#GamerGate in 60 seconds

 

[Nolder]

For those interested, Erik Kain of Forbes held a livestream earlier today with Greg Tito (editor in chief at The Escapist), Janelle Bonanno (editor in chief at Gamefront.com), and TotalBiscuit discussing #Gamergate.

 

If you don't know, The Escapist has been one of the very few places on the web where you can talk freely about these issues. It's been that way from the start. So props to Greg there, especially after Ben Kuchera pressured him in the GameJournoPros emails to take down discussion on his website and censor the issue like everyone else. That said while watching the livestream I really had to question Greg's motivations. I have come to two conclusions, one cynical and one...less so. The cynical side of me thinks Greg and the Escapist are playing damage control for their buddies. Discussion is only allowed in order to observe and possibly influence the narrative taking shape. The things Greg said during the livestream were really offputting and flat out wrong in my opinion. The other option is that Greg is benevolent but simply does not understand the issue. He doesn't understand Gamergate or why it's important. He's simply lost in another world and isn't able to see things from the common gamers point of view. But at least he's giving people a place to talk and trying to wrap his head around what's going on. Regardless TotalBiscuit called him out on the things he got wrong so there's that.

 

Here's the livestream if you'd like to watch. It clocks in at a little over an hour.

 

And here's Erik Kain's thoughts following the livestream.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/10/06/its-time-for-video-game-journalists-to-engage-with-gamergate/

[Nolder]

Oh also today some guy from Dell compared Gamergate to ISIS and University of Advanced Technology pulled advertising from Gamasutra.

[Nolder]

Christina Hoff Sommers husband passed away the other day.

Gamergate came together and signed a condolence book as well as raising nearly $300 for flowers.

http://www.dearbasedmom.com/

http://yiannopoulos.net/2014/10/08/flowers-for-based-mom/

[Nolder]

MSNBC ran a smear piece on Gamergate today. It was pretty much what you'd expect. Women being harassed and fleeing for their lives from evil misogynist gamers on the internet.

 

Also today Boogie was banned from Neogaf for his pro Gamergate stance.

 

http://theralphretort.com/disgraceful-neogaf-finally-bans-peaceful-boogie2988/

[Nolder]

A response to MSNBC's piece

 

[Nolder]

Mainstream media is really starting to pick up on this finally.

 

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/gamergate-and-sexism-and-misogyny-in-video-game-culture-/5437df2b78c90a43d9000be8

[Nolder]

Women of Gamergate crushing it on HuffPo

 

[Nolder]

Annnnnd Gawker continues to solidify themselves as the perfect example of corporate irresponsibility in journalism and media.

 

AKA they're clickbaiting bastards who have no morals and no shame.

 

http://theralphretort.com/gawker-refuses-denounce-advocacy-bullying/

[Nolder]

I guess The Guardian was against us from the getgo

 

http://theralphretort.com/internal-email-shows-guardian-mind-made-gamergate/

[Nolder]

Mercedes left Gawker after Gawker refused to condone their employee who promoted bullying.

These guys are their own worst enemy. We don't even have to actually DO anything half the time.

 

http://theralphretort.com/mercedes-pulls-ads-gawker/

[WWWwombat]

Interesting.  I'm glad it seems like there's actually some honest discussion going on.

[Nolder]

Interesting.  I'm glad it seems like there's actually some honest discussion going on.

Honest discussion?

No, not really.

 

These people are being dragged into the light, kicking and screaming the whole way, and taught how to act like decent human beings.

The very little press coverage this has gotten has been with the clear goal of smearing and discrediting what we want. We have been pejoratively called tea partiers, conspiracy nuts, the technology worlds ISIS, worse than Ebola, and murderous lunatics among the usual insults such as nerds, misogynists, pissbabies, neckbeards, virgins, basement dwellers, and manchildren. We have been the subject of several proven false flags including rape threats and school shootings. Hell they even hired a botnet out of Indonesia (ironically enough also used by ISIS) to push the hashtag #Stopgamergate2014 which lasted for about a day and is now fading into obscurity. The Guardian was caught red handed having a clear bias against us and it's pretty obvious other mainstream outlets do as well. They've tried to doxx people through several third party outlets including Patreon and Humble Bundle. They have actually doxxed some people through other means. I can go on and on. Recently Brianna Wu bad mouthed a European fruit vendor thinking she was talking to the game studio DICE. Turns out the guy is a gamer and pitched an idea for a fruit vendor simulator game with the profits going to food charities for third world countries. Speaking of charities IIRC Gamergate has raised over $90,000 for causes such as anti bullying, promoting women developers, suicide prevention, and children's hospitals so far and this number is expected to continue to rise. Meanwhile Gawker editor in chief Max Read makes fun of kids with autism. This is why Gamergate is winning. Not because there is "honest discussion" taking place, but because the people on the other side are committed to NOT having an honest discussion and are so clearly vile and willing to do anything they can to hurt us that no one halfway decent wants to touch them. Advertisers are running for the hills and the Gamergate hashtag is soaring to new heights almost every day.

 

The ride doesn't end until we get some ethical and unbiased journalism.

It's all we ever wanted and we'll burn these sites to the ground to get it if need be.

[Nolder]

[Lanthirrhos]

I'd like to push this one out there...

 

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sd2cag

 

and add that most pro-GGers aren't actually informed enough to participate in an actual discussion (beyond saying "Journalistic Ethics good. Nepotism bad." Most of them are not displaying a knowledge of how their industry works, or how it needs to change to support/enforce Journalistic Ethics. It also seems like most of them cannot point out a  breach of journalistic Ethics outside of a couple major headlines like Zoe Quinn and GerstmannGate. And this is where a lack of leadership kills them. They're a bunch of tiny repetitious voices that decry, and proselytize, but they can't properly illustrate the problem with examples, or support a method of progress because their individual voice is never heard over their peers... or the deafening uproar over the harassment shouting.

[Lanthirrhos]

At the moment, GGers, outside of the industry itself, sound like they are spouting harsh, repetitive, unsubstantiated rhetoric... when in actuality, they DO have something to shout about, but the masses will never articulate it intelligibly.

 

Which would lead the mass of uninitiated outsiders to look upon the movement less favorably, even without the help of media to perpetuate the misogyny stereotype.

[Nolder]

and add that most pro-GGers aren't actually informed enough to participate in an actual discussion (beyond saying "Journalistic Ethics good. Nepotism bad."

Have you spent much time in the Gamergate hashtag? /r/KIA? /gg/? Maybe /v/ or /pol/ before 4chan was kill? Have you visited the Burgers and Fries chatroom? Have you watched any of the livestreams? I think you're wrong. I think the average member of Gamergate understands exactly why they're there.

 

They're not misogynists.

They're not right wing conspiracy tea partiers.

They know that reviewing someone's game while they're your roommate (and romantic partner?) is wrong.

They know having a relationship with someone and promoting their game is wrong.

They know judging a game that you are financially invested in is wrong.

They know reporting on someone you are donating to on Patreon every month is wrong.

 

These things are not difficult to understand.

The conflicts of interest are very clear and simple disclosure would have been enough.

The Escapist knows it, that's why they changed their policy.

Kotaku knows it, even though they're still crap, which is why they changed their policy.

Polygon knows it, even though they refused to change their policy.

 

These things would not have happened if there wasn't a clear cut message.

 

Most of them are not displaying a knowledge of how their industry works,

This is true. It's been a learning experience for many and a lot of stuff had to be learned on the fly.

The fact of the matter is the consumers should have never have had to do the journalists job for them.

 

or how it needs to change to support/enforce Journalistic Ethics.

No. You're wrong.

Everyone agrees they need to adhere to this.

http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp

 

It also seems like most of them cannot point out a  breach of journalistic Ethics outside of a couple major headlines like Zoe Quinn and GerstmannGate.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

Who, exactly, do you think found these breach of ethics in the first place?

Protip: it wasn't journalists.

 

And this is where a lack of leadership kills them.

Kills?

HAHAHAHAHA

 

http://topsy.com/analytics?q1=%23gamergate&q2=%23notyourshield&via=Topsy

 

They're a bunch of tiny repetitious voices

Totalbiscuit

1.8M subs on Youtube

360K followers on Twitter

 

Boogie2988

2M subs on Youtube

180k followers on Twitter

 

Christina Hoff Sommers

22.5k followers on Twitter

 

Internet Aristocrat

93K subs on Youtube

19.8k followers on Twitter

 

Sargon of Akkad

24K subs on Youtube

 

Milo Yiannpoulos

33.5k followers on Twitter

 

That's just the names I know.

There are others that I don't.

These people are not small voices, but even if they were it wouldn't matter.

This is the kind of thing where numbers and actions speak louder than words.

 

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/gamasutra.com

 

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/rockpapershotgun.com

 

that decry, and proselytize, but they can't properly illustrate the problem with examples,

Bullshit.

That's just not true.

Who do you think is making the infographics, the youtube videos, etc?

If we couldn't properly explain the issues with examples do you think we would have gotten so much traction?

Hell didn't this all start from the awful example of Zoe Quinn and Nathan Grayson?

Or do you want to go to the deeper matter of Stephen Totilo being A OK with that happening and denying it was even an issue?

What went down with Indiecade, IGF, Polytron, and FEZ wasn't clear enough for you?

 

or support a method of progress because their individual voice is never heard over their peers... or the deafening uproar over the harassment shouting.

Ask anyone in Gamergate whether this is ok. Ask everyone you want. The answer will always be yes.

 

http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp

 

 

At the moment, GGers, outside of the industry itself, sound like they are spouting harsh, repetitive, unsubstantiated rhetoric... when in actuality, they DO have something to shout about, but the masses will never articulate it intelligibly.

 

Which would lead the mass of uninitiated outsiders to look upon the movement less favorably, even without the help of media to perpetuate the misogyny stereotype.

Well, you know, it would be a little easier to explain to people what we are all about if the press would stop smearing us.

Honestly it seems like you read about Gamergate on some publication like The Verge or NYT or something and took what they said as what's going on.

[WWWwombat]

 

Interesting.  I'm glad it seems like there's actually some honest discussion going on.

Honest discussion?

No, not really.

 

Idk man, I watched part of that Huff Post video you posted.  Seemed like a step in the right direction to me.

[Nolder]

 

 

Interesting.  I'm glad it seems like there's actually some honest discussion going on.

Honest discussion?

No, not really.

 

 

Idk man, I watched part of that Huff Post video you posted.  Seemed like a step in the right direction to me.

 

Ok yes but my point is it was forced.

No one wanted to touch this. They preferred to ignore it, censor it, and smear it.

And at every turn that got more and more people involved because they can see these things for the tactics they are and they don't like it.

 

 

Let me put it this way. If you asked HuffPo to do this a month ago they would have ignored or refused despite this being just as much of a story then as it is now.

[WWWwombat]

True, but how it happened is not as relevant as the fact that it is happening.

[WWWwombat]

And there is something to be said for a grassroots movement managing to change the discourse for the better.

[WWWwombat]

Also, I think the journalists are overestimating their position here.  Ultimately, dollars speak, and hardcore gamers are still the most important demographic in the industry imo.