[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

[RandA lThor]

My reads of others changed, primarily NotBob (since Tommy was up there with you in my strong town reads for awhile as well), and then the logic I just did showed that you were likely to be scum.

[RandA lThor]

Fair enough, I can't deny that my game hasn't been perfect, but it never is.  I am not sure how you see my current game as scummy, especially since I recall being your strongest town read for quite a while.  What changed?

 

Do you also see what I am getting at about the votes?  I'm sure by now the mafia see it.  Darthe is well aware of it, I'm sure. 

 

I have more to say about the symp thing in a bit as soon as I can find the quote, but did anyone notice the soft press by Tommy on that with me? It was as if he was soft fishing to see if I was a symp without totally calling me out on it. 

 

Symps know who the mafia are, but the mafia wouldn't know who their symp was unless they outed in some way.  Is it possible that Tommy was trying to see if I was the symp with him? 

I do like this post though.

 

One thing thats worrying me about Tommy is that I don't know how he plays as scum at all.  He may be good enough to fake what he's doing right now.  I know NotBob and Mynd at least enough to know that they can't fake that well, but idk about Tommy.  That's more paranoia than anything though.

[Myndrunner]

Nevermind about the symp hint.  He just asked.  Nothing more.  I could have sworn it came up again later from him, but I can't find it.  I'll keep looking as I go back through....again. 

 

Did fine a couple interesting posts though......prior to DT flipping town.

 

 

 

Wouldn't be surprised if Clov is the last scum. It's between him and NB based on today's conversation but I'll try to be open minded as I catch up and look for spew in case I'm missing something.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok we just essentially saw scum scramble imo.

I didnt view DT. I was roleblocked. I think Notbob is almost certain scum based on his reactions today and am interested in examining the above two who are the next two on my list in order.

Mynd/Rand effectively cleared themselves today. TG was already clear. That should lock the game.

Pretty asinine of you to fake a scum result and let it get to a lynch. I know you like gambits but that was just dumb. Let's hope you guessed right and he was scum.

I did everything to keep it from getting to a lynch. You and clov were the trigger happy speed hammer. Pretty incredible of you to blame that on me.

Let's agree to disagree. Maybe yell at you later.

 

 

 

 

This was my interaction with Tommy on the symp possibility.  Again, I could have sworn it came up again.  If it did, I'll find it. But yeah, I thought I had him......maybe it was a dream? ahahahahahahahahah..... *cries*

 

 

 

 

 

Assuming DT flips scum (can't see why not at this point), we don't really have much to worry about. A more updated case coming soon, but for now Clov has risen above TG as potential scum.

@Tommy - are you sure there is only one scum left? Maybe a mafia symp?

@Darthe - before I potentially muddy the waters with my full updated case, are you pretty sure among who you are going to view tonight? I'm pretty sure you will survive the night again. Not by my hands but I'm pretty sure.

A traitor role in a basic game?

 

 

Yeah, I would say no way but that was before I learned that "BASIC" in DM could mean a vig, a symp, a killer, etc. 

 

The character Dillinger from the movie would make a good symp character.  He was the same actor who played Sark and MCP.   Flynn would likely be a cop while Tron would either be a doc or vig role. 

 

 

 

[Myndrunner]

@Rand -  What have I done that has been scummy to you?  More so than Clov/NotBob/Tommy ?

[Tommyrod]

Notice how everytime we bring up the DrunkTank dogpile, Tommy gets fussy? It's almost like he is mad at himself for doing it in the first place. In an otherwise flawless game, that may be the one thing that does him in and he knows it.

 

I'm leaning on a Tommy/Clov team with NotBob swappable in either slot.

"Gets fussy?" I'd love for you to show me that. I've made observations on who pushed that as an actual scum tell and when, but this is my first time addressing it outright because of how stupid it is. What do you expect me to do -- allow myself to get lynched for something out of my control?

 

Calling my play "flawless" points to your own reasoning being bad. If I played a flawless scum game in your eyes, then you should realize it's unlikely I would do something so garish just to out myself.

 

This is basic.

[Myndrunner]

 

Notice how everytime we bring up the DrunkTank dogpile, Tommy gets fussy? It's almost like he is mad at himself for doing it in the first place. In an otherwise flawless game, that may be the one thing that does him in and he knows it.

 

I'm leaning on a Tommy/Clov team with NotBob swappable in either slot.

"Gets fussy?" I'd love for you to show me that. I've made observations on who pushed that as an actual scum tell and when, but this is my first time addressing it outright because of how stupid it is. What do you expect me to do -- allow myself to get lynched for something out of my control?

 

Calling my play "flawless" points to your own reasoning being bad. If I played a flawless scum game in your eyes, then you should realize it's unlikely I would do something so garish just to out myself.

 

This is basic.

 

 

Ok, let's clear the table and play out in the open.

 

Why did you rush-vote DrunkTank when we had plenty of time for him to respond?

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Fair enough, I can't deny that my game hasn't been perfect, but it never is. I am not sure how you see my current game as scummy, especially since I recall being your strongest town read for quite a while. What changed?

 

Do you also see what I am getting at about the votes? I'm sure by now the mafia see it. Darthe is well aware of it, I'm sure.

 

I have more to say about the symp thing in a bit as soon as I can find the quote, but did anyone notice the soft press by Tommy on that with me? It was as if he was soft fishing to see if I was a symp without totally calling me out on it.

 

Symps know who the mafia are, but the mafia wouldn't know who their symp was unless they outed in some way. Is it possible that Tommy was trying to see if I was the symp with him?

I do like this post though.

 

One thing thats worrying me about Tommy is that I don't know how he plays as scum at all. He may be good enough to fake what he's doing right now. I know NotBob and Mynd at least enough to know that they can't fake that well, but idk about Tommy. That's more paranoia than anything though.

I'm either the best or one of the best scum players on this site. Darthe and I met in the "game of champions" where I was a wolf and he was a villager and I fooled him most of the way and earned scum MVP for that game (we won). So the truth is that I could fake my way out of almost anything, which is why I'm just flabbergasted at some of the arguments being used against me. I'm often one of the clearest players at endgame because of my deep unfettered scum swag.

 

It's kind of sad that my meta is "if you think Tommy's town he's scum and if you think Tommy's scum he's town" but it kind of is. And it's not that I prefer one alignment to the other, I just put my foot in my own mouth and pinball around as town because I don't have the game solved yet; as scum I can be much more smooth and leave myself in a good position in endgame because I have the destinations and can predict the journeys to get there.

 

So being called scum for generically scummy behavior is annoying because I never exhibit that generically scummy behavior when I'm scum. And obviously there's a lot of inherent WIFOM there but I think I Darthe would back me up on that.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

Notice how everytime we bring up the DrunkTank dogpile, Tommy gets fussy? It's almost like he is mad at himself for doing it in the first place. In an otherwise flawless game, that may be the one thing that does him in and he knows it.

 

I'm leaning on a Tommy/Clov team with NotBob swappable in either slot.

"Gets fussy?" I'd love for you to show me that. I've made observations on who pushed that as an actual scum tell and when, but this is my first time addressing it outright because of how stupid it is. What do you expect me to do -- allow myself to get lynched for something out of my control?

 

Calling my play "flawless" points to your own reasoning being bad. If I played a flawless scum game in your eyes, then you should realize it's unlikely I would do something so garish just to out myself.

 

This is basic.

Ok, let's clear the table and play out in the open.

 

Why did you rush-vote DrunkTank when we had plenty of time for him to respond?

Started losing interest in waiting for outed scum that wasn't gonna show, saw Rand losing interest too, made a snap decision on the subway home to invite someone to hammer him because I was curious who would do so, posted, saw Clov had cross posted with me, found it funny that someone I thought had scum potential did the same thing I did, my response was a little delayed when train went underground, never expected it to become a thing.

[Myndrunner]

So being called scum for generically scummy behavior is annoying because I never exhibit that generically scummy behavior when I'm scum. And obviously there's a lot of inherent WIFOM there but I think I Darthe would back me up on that.

 

 

So if you are acting townish, then you are likely scum?  Sounds like this game in a nutshell. 

[Tommyrod]

 

 

So being called scum for generically scummy behavior is annoying because I never exhibit that generically scummy behavior when I'm scum. And obviously there's a lot of inherent WIFOM there but I think I Darthe would back me up on that.

 

So if you are acting townish, then you are likely scum? Sounds like this game in a nutshell.

You can't argue that point because you already argued that I'm scum for scummy behavior.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

I'm back to Tommy as scum.  He laid the hammer...most likely with Mynd.  

[Myndrunner]

 

 

 

 

Notice how everytime we bring up the DrunkTank dogpile, Tommy gets fussy? It's almost like he is mad at himself for doing it in the first place. In an otherwise flawless game, that may be the one thing that does him in and he knows it.

 

I'm leaning on a Tommy/Clov team with NotBob swappable in either slot.

"Gets fussy?" I'd love for you to show me that. I've made observations on who pushed that as an actual scum tell and when, but this is my first time addressing it outright because of how stupid it is. What do you expect me to do -- allow myself to get lynched for something out of my control?

 

Calling my play "flawless" points to your own reasoning being bad. If I played a flawless scum game in your eyes, then you should realize it's unlikely I would do something so garish just to out myself.

 

This is basic.

Ok, let's clear the table and play out in the open.

 

Why did you rush-vote DrunkTank when we had plenty of time for him to respond?

[\spoiler]

Started losing interest in waiting for outed scum that wasn't gonna show, saw Rand losing interest too, made a snap decision on the subway home to invite someone to hammer him because I was curious who would do so, posted, saw Clov had cross posted with me, found it funny that someone I thought had scum potential did the same thing I did, my response was a little delayed when train went underground, never expected it to become a thing.

 

 

You have to understand that boredom is no excuse though.  Still, I have to go back to my original assumption that both of you couldn't have done that in collusion unless it was an incredibad derp mafia moment.  I find it hard to believe that you and Clov would both be scum and do that.  I could see a scrub mafia team doing that, but not you two. 

 

So....let's take Tommy/Clov off the table then.

 

That would mean either Tommy/NotBob with incredible distancing.

 

or.....Clov/NotBob.

 

I think this calls for a burrito. 

[Myndrunner]

I'm back to Tommy as scum.  He laid the hammer...most likely with Mynd.  

 

but....I.....um......didn't vote Drunk Tank.   I did as Darthe instructed. 

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

 

 

 

 

Notice how everytime we bring up the DrunkTank dogpile, Tommy gets fussy? It's almost like he is mad at himself for doing it in the first place. In an otherwise flawless game, that may be the one thing that does him in and he knows it.

 

I'm leaning on a Tommy/Clov team with NotBob swappable in either slot.

"Gets fussy?" I'd love for you to show me that. I've made observations on who pushed that as an actual scum tell and when, but this is my first time addressing it outright because of how stupid it is. What do you expect me to do -- allow myself to get lynched for something out of my control?

 

Calling my play "flawless" points to your own reasoning being bad. If I played a flawless scum game in your eyes, then you should realize it's unlikely I would do something so garish just to out myself.

 

This is basic.

Ok, let's clear the table and play out in the open.

 

Why did you rush-vote DrunkTank when we had plenty of time for him to respond?

[\spoiler]

Started losing interest in waiting for outed scum that wasn't gonna show, saw Rand losing interest too, made a snap decision on the subway home to invite someone to hammer him because I was curious who would do so, posted, saw Clov had cross posted with me, found it funny that someone I thought had scum potential did the same thing I did, my response was a little delayed when train went underground, never expected it to become a thing.

 

 

You have to understand that boredom is no excuse though.  Still, I have to go back to my original assumption that both of you couldn't have done that in collusion unless it was an incredibad derp mafia moment.  I find it hard to believe that you and Clov would both be scum and do that.  I could see a scrub mafia team doing that, but not you two. 

 

So....let's take Tommy/Clov off the table then.

 

That would mean either Tommy/NotBob with incredible distancing.

 

or.....Clov/NotBob.

 

I think this calls for a burrito. 

 

 

Pretty sure it you and Tommy now.

 

Good luck

[Myndrunner]

[unvote]

 

Nope.   Dude is town.  I see it now. 

 

Its Clov/Notbob or maybe hell, even Rand/Clov or Rand/Notbob. 

 

(Out of character, this has been a real challenge.  I may have made it more challenging than it should have been, but its been a blast and a lot of fun playing with you all. )

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

I'm back to Tommy as scum.  He laid the hammer...most likely with Mynd.  

 

but....I.....um......didn't vote Drunk Tank.   I did as Darthe instructed. 

 

 

Yes, but like what was said...maybe derp mafia...has scum mates pull that...not Clov and Tommy...Tommy saw a quick opportunity...took it...then you echo my arguments from yesterday to earn town cred while bussing Tommy.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

[unvote]

 

Nope.   Dude is town.  I see it now. 

 

Its Clov/Notbob or maybe hell, even Rand/Clov or Rand/Notbob. 

 

(Out of character, this has been a real challenge.  I may have made it more challenging than it should have been, but its been a blast and a lot of fun playing with you all. )

 

^^^This^^^

[Tommyrod]

I don't like how Mynd has been subtly suggesting the inferences people should make without explicitly stating them.

 

Stuff like: "we should think about why Vos and Salami were killed."

 

"TG, do you see what Tommy is doing?"

 

"An experienced player like Tommy should know better." [Well that should indicate I didn't do a goofy coordinated hammer!]

 

"Mafia is just about votes, isn't it?" [implying the DT hammer is the most important event in the game]

 

"Tommy shouldn't be implicated by the night kill because he white knighted TG" [which contradicts the above point anyway]

 

"Notice how Tom gets fussy?"

 

"What about a no lynch?"

 

 

Lots of stuff like the above in the past couple days.

 

Mynd; if you're town, knock it off.

[RandA lThor]

I'm back to Tommy as scum.  He laid the hammer...most likely with Mynd.  

You're taking Clov out?  One thing I'd like to mention here is that often when people keep talking and talking you find scummy things and go for them as scum.  Sometimes the opposite happens with towntells.  Don't start switching out on Clov just because he hasn't posted yet.  I feel pretty good about Clov mafia.

 

Mynd, like I said, its less you doing scummy things (but the top of my list would be that weird symp post (felt awkward) and some things from yesterday (game yesterday not RL yesterday) that I can't remember on the top of my head but I think I mentioned there).  Its more people rising above you in terms of towntells, and definitely more of my scumhunting/logic mix.

 

I agree though, this is ending an excellent and thrilling game.

[Tommyrod]

I'm town now? Just like that? Wish it was always this easy.

[Tommyrod]

I'm back to Tommy as scum.  He laid the hammer...most likely with Mynd.

 

You are such an odd little creature.

[RandA lThor]

I'm town now? Just like that? Wish it was always this easy.

 

This may seem really small, but as mafia I generally don't comment on people's townreads of me, I kind of just stay away from it so that it doesn't ever change.  Sometimes do this as town, but definitely as mafia.  So I guess with a combination of my three possibilities.

 

NB/Clov

 

Mynd/Clov

 

Mynd/Tommy

 

and Tommy with my biggest read we're left with

 

NB/Clov

 

Mynd/Clov

 

which means, surprise, surprise, Clov is still at the top.  Can we all just get along and lynch Clov?

 

Lol Darthe's gonna have a good chunk to read through and a good amount of mind changing.

[Tommyrod]

Anyway, mafia 101:

 

Is scum playing awesome or just getting by?

 

Generally it's the latter.

 

This points to NB and Clov.

[Clovdyx]

 

NotBob reads now.

 

Still don't like hammer...so Tommy and Clov

 

Don't like Mynd's play...could vote him...his case is exactly what I'd expect from scum to get me to vote with him.

 

My plan is to play follow the Cop except when votes me.  lol

 

 

The problem with this is you know the cop doesn't know who mafia is, so....????

 

 

Rules

1. This a Basic game. All the normal rules applicable to Basic games are applicable here.

2. You can Vote and Unvote using the Voting Tags here at DM. The code is [v ]Xthrax[/v ] without the spaces and [ unvote] without the space and also without the slash "/". You must Unvote before making a new Vote or they will not be counted.

3. You may Self-vote or Vote for No Lynch.

4. This is a Hybrid Hammer Game. Majority can be achieved but it isn't required. The player with the highest votes will be lynched. In an event of a tie, Random.org will decide the Lynch.

5. Lenlo will be helping me to do the VC's.

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8. No quoting the mod. You may paraphrase but no direct quotes from communications with me.  No editing.

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10.  All Night Actions occur simultaneously.

11. If I find you breaking any rules, you will be Mod-killed immediately without being given any explanation. If you think you are crossing a line or breaking a Rule, you probably are. If are still in confusion, ask me and I will help you out. 

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13. Play to your win condition which will be given in the Role PM which you'll recieve.

14. Be civil. I understand that this is a Mafia game but anything outside the spirit of the game or personal attacks and I will take action.

15. As Mod I reserve the right to change the rules.

 

Please Do not post until I say so.

 

I had to double check, but right above rule #4 is rule #3, which states that we can self-vote or vote no lynch.  Do you think No Lynch is an option? 

 

 

Uh....no.  Unless you want to be in this exact same situation tomorrow with one less townie in the game.  Why would you propose that?

Blowing my mind a little bit just how much weight people are giving to the xpost DT hammer. It can't be just scum pushing the issue because too many of you are bringing it up. Not that you should believe me, but the probability I make that move with my scumbro when neither of us is clear and DT was highly likely to be lynched regardless is exactly zero. I like to have fun as scum, but that's TOO blatant and blows cover too severely. Phyrric victories aren't my style.

 

Mynd, there's no reason to no lynch today. With doc dead, the only player in this setup who would be dying tonight is Darthe, the only ~confirmed townie. You're advocating for us to go into F5 without the advantage of a known pro-town voice. Your "the only thing that matters in mafia votes" comment is being hugely results oriented; mafia isn't black and white, as much as Darthe dislikes to admit it. Motivation and justification, rather than results, should be your focus. And right now I'm wondering -- what's your motivation in suggesting we go to LyLo without a confirmed townie?

 

I've been feeling pretty good about you Tom, but let's be perfectly fair - bold is one of those "If I were scum, I would not do X...I would do Y" kind of posts.  Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't, but EXACTLY ZERO is the number of people that should put stock into your statement.

 

 

 

Actually I'm starting to agree with Tommy here.  Mynd and Clov most likely at this point.  I'll wait for Darthe.  Although I'm not sure you can convince him I'm not scum.

 

Quotes cut down for brevity, but that was a fast switch lol.  This I think is one of your worst posts.  Near the end game, mafia becomes very malleable to changing their reads as long as they can get a lynch secured on a townie.  The fact that you switch from Tommy to Mynd secures this idea.  If you are scum, so is Clov.

 

So if NotBob is scum, so is Clov.

 

If Clov isn't scum, Tommy and Mynd are.

 

If Clov is scum, Tommy isn't.

 

If Tommy is scum, Clov isn't, NotBob isn't (frustration between the two), so that means Mynd is.

 

So possible teams are

 

NB/Clov

 

Mynd/Clov

 

Mynd/Tommy

 

Wow, I did not expect it to be that short and clean. :P

 

 

Walk me through this analysis.  I don't understand why you think my top two lynches for the day are the two people I'm most likely to be partnered with.  What interactions in the game make you think we're likely teammates?

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

I'm back to Tommy as scum.  He laid the hammer...most likely with Mynd.  

You're taking Clov out?  One thing I'd like to mention here is that often when people keep talking and talking you find scummy things and go for them as scum.  Sometimes the opposite happens with towntells.  Don't start switching out on Clov just because he hasn't posted yet.  I feel pretty good about Clov mafia.

 

Mynd, like I said, its less you doing scummy things (but the top of my list would be that weird symp post (felt awkward) and some things from yesterday (game yesterday not RL yesterday) that I can't remember on the top of my head but I think I mentioned there).  Its more people rising above you in terms of towntells, and definitely more of my scumhunting/logic mix.

 

I agree though, this is ending an excellent and thrilling game.

 

 

Agree that Clov needs to contribute...just...of the two who hammered DT...Tommy more likely scum.