Darkfriends and the Wolfkin

[Matalina]

why have the wolfkin never had evil characters in the books? Probably because it's such a rare "talent" that you just haven't stumbled across an evil character who can talk to the wolves.

 

The Dark One dislikes wolves because they CAN smell trollocs and they are the bane of trollocs and fades, wolves go out of their way to destroy his creations. Wouldn't that upset you?

 

I personally don't see why the kin would care about assassins. Assassins are not darkfriends.

 

So you would rather restrict role play between two whole divisions? In case of the Warders it was sided on the fact that the few were getting the shaft because there wasn't enough darkfriend warders. Here, SG can't RP with an entire division based on this rule <shrugs> and Kin can't RP with an entire division.

 

I'm not questioning the rules and I really don't care one way or the other. But I really don't see how the wolves can smell darkfriends... evil yes, but darkfriends unless doing soemthing evil or have evil intentions should not be detected... much the same way a sniffer or a theif catcher smells evil of the deeds done and can follow it.

 

A normal darkfriend sitting in the woods gathering herbs for his family and friends should be no different than a man who is light bound doing the same thing. However if the man was gathering herbs to kill someone that the should smell, that would be something I think is acceptable, not just smelling someone minding their own business with no evil intentions.

 

Mat

[Liitha]

just as a side note i dont see us limited from RPing with this div...i have and one our chosen is about to...

[Matalina]

General rule: If someone finds out you are a darkfriend, they have every right to kill your character... unless this has changed this has been a long standing rule <shrugs>

 

So this limits my RPs with a Wolfkin cause I'm not about to have to deal with finding a solution ot the problem with out either one dying or killing either character.

[Wayfarer]

This might help one way or the other. Book one, page 343 around the bottom. This is the chapter where Perrin and Egwene are telling Elyas a lie about how they got there. Elyas says they're lying and says:

 

"Dapple says she smelled Halfmen and Trollocs in your minds while you were telling that fool story. They all did."

 

The wolves can definitely read thoughts then, or get the scent of them. Perhaps a darkfriend would be fine as long as they manage not to think anything darkfriendy :) I don't think the connotation of the thought matters, the fact that it is thought.

 

I am unsure whether Wolfkin have the same ability, maybe some could develop it but others not? For example that would be a very handy trick for a Watcher.

[CorenYi]

I would like to point something out. Someone earlier in the thread compared the Wolf/wolfkin's ability to smell evil to the Warder's ability to sense shadowspawn. I believe that this is a an extremely apt and valid comparison. The two abilities, as described by the books, are nearly identical. The books also make it abundantly clear that Warders cannot sense Darkfriends because they are not shadowspawn. They simply do not radiate the evil in the same way that Shadowspawn do. I cannot find the passage(or rather I know around where it is but simply do not feel like figuring out which book it's in, but it's one of the first 4), but I know that there is a point where Lan actually tells Perin that he cannot sense Graymen and Darkfriends because they have not gone far enough into the shadow. However it was clear that he could sense Fain. When combined with the number of times that Perrin and the wolves were around DarkFriends and did not know that they were DarkFriends leads me to the conclusion that the wolves smell the evil in a manner that is very similar to the way a Warder senses the evil.

 

Therefore I posit that Wolves/Wolfkin would not be able to smell all darkfriends. They may be able to get a sense that something wasn't right, they can certainly smell lies (our body chemisty changes when we lie, unless we have been trained specifically to keep it from doing so), and they could smell anyone as far gone as Fain, but a regular DarkFriend would simply smell like a person to them unless they were actively plotting something of Dark intent.

 

I believe that this is the only logical conclusion that is true to the information provided by the books.

[Quibby]

One thing that I'd like to point out is that when Perrin was travelling with Ingtar, he was still resisting his abilities. The impression that I took from the books is that in order for the abilities of a Wolfkin to fully manifest, they have to accept them. Perrin never began to truly accept them until later in the series. By the time a Wolfkin reaches a certain stage, I'd think that they'd be able to 'smell' the Darkfriend-ness (I like my new word) of somebody who's far enough in the Shadow. Some punk kid who only swore because it would be the 'cool' thing to do would not have such a smell, but one who would actually plot to aid in the Great Lord's plans would probably have a stench of darkness about him. It would depend on the sense of smell of the Wolfkin in question.

 

But that's just my two cents.

[CorenYi]

That actually isn't opposed to the opinion I put forth. A darkfriend has to be progressed a certain ways along the path in order for a Wolf/Wolfkin to identify them... it seems as though the question is now, how far is that?

[Matalina]

Hmmm.... something new to add to my "issue"...

 

Just so those actually reading this know I'm putting out a formal "complaint/issue" on this for Owen to have the staff look into.

 

I will point the direction of the thead so they'll have the sources of some things.

 

Mat

[Darin Saine]

I realize it's been a LONG time since this topic had a reply, but it's really been bothering me. In the Great Hunt when Perrin's traveling with Ingtar, he says several times that wolves can't smell Darkfriends, just Shadowspawn. They make no distinction between humans at all, the pack he senses near Falme has no interest at all in humans, and takes a good amount of persuading to go and investigate the CoL legion nearby.

[Wayfarer]

Not sure what was decided on this, I'll PM the people involved at the time and get them to weigh in here.

[Arette]

I doubt that anything was decided and the WK AGL has changed since February since the topic was raised. Crista is coming back from her LOA in 4 days so we should wait on her. I don't feel that a substitute can make the call.

 

If you want to give feedback and opinions in the meanwhile, you're most welcomed to and they will be taken into account :)

[Guest Estel]

actually, I think it's changed twice since February

 

decisions in the past have been that wolves can smell out Darkfriends (when I first made Aleeza three years ago she was going to be a Darkfriend, but I was not allowed to do this).  however, policies can change so perhaps come up with a bunch of good reasons why wolves should not be allowed to sense Darkfriends that isn't based on "the book says this".

[Darin Saine]

Sounds good to me, some points I'd like to put forward:

 

-Trollocs and Fades, any Shadowspawn for that matter, would have a different smell, and so it's likely that, rather than a mark placed on them that the wolves can smell.

 

-Darkfriends are humans, and from what I've read, Darkfriends just swear oaths, they are not marked by the DO himself. I'm pretty sure words don't have smells.