[Advanced] Twilight Mafia Game over - Mafia win

[Tommyrod]

 

Ok, here are my reads (scum to town)

Darthe 

Clov

Despo

Lenlo

Hallia

Dice

Verb

Tommy

 

And I have absolutely no clue about Laya. 

I'm getting a bit more suspicious of Lenlo. At first I completely believed his claim because he said it at a time where not everyone was trying to lynch him, which is a time a lot of mafia will fake claim, I think (because when I've been scum in other games, people would tell me to make fake claims as a last resort as soon as a lot of people tried to lynch me. I never did it though) But now, not so much - 2 of the 3 questions he asked would be pretty easy to figure out on his own. (And maybe the other, but I don't know what that role is so I can't say so.) And the other comments he has made after making that claim are kind of strange. 

 

Hallia's vote on me was really random. She just came in and voted me with no comment on my gameplay. I'm null on her right now just because of how confused I am by this.

 

And I've read a lot of Tommy's posts. I normally will not be confident that anyone's town, but he seems very trustworthy.

I think I just found the smoking gun. Check out this progression on reads. First, these are the only posts where Dawn mentions Clov before he becomes her #2 candidate. But even better, take a look at her list of reads. She's got Darthe at the bottom at me at the top when really she has no business giving me the strongest town lean in the game by that point; she said I 'sounded trustworthy' or some other made up read like that, I'm guessing someone told her not to push me. But by this point she's talked about her scumread on Des for like... ten or one dozen posts, and hasn't discussed Clov at all, yet there he is, scumread #2.

 

And who does she have no lean on?

 

Pral.

 

BOOM.

 

 

Seriously, you are overreaching if you are saying that we are connected because she put my name specifically as null that early in the game. I mean, not even a newbie would do something as obvious as that. Anyway, I am not sure why she put me like that but her responses are weak related to that.

 

 

To all: check out how this goes down.

 

1. Clov attacks Dawn for being inconsistent.

 

2. Dawn shifts the focus to how other people are scummy. Hallia, Des, Darthe. (Never talks about Clov himself. Never discussed why Clov was her #2 scumread earlier in the game. Never discusses why she moves him into lock clear town category after he nips at her heels for several days.)

 

3. Clov gives Dawn an "out" to work with him on pinning someone else. 

 

Classic distancing. And pretty sneakily executed, too.

 

 

I do agree somewhat to the connection between Clov and her though. Rather than naming someone, not mentioning or discussing someone is a bigger scumtell. Still not a definite but I can see what you are looking at.

 

 

[Tommyrod]

I meant to emphasize your post more, but yeah. What a gross thing to say right now.

[Pralaya]

Well, you are trying to link me with her based on something SHE said, not me. Which I frankly see as a very weak point because it doesn't make sense strategically.

 

However, I do not know why she did that. She clarified that I was not as active at the time but I find that point hard to believe because there were so many others like Hallia, Dice with similar postcount as me and I had a lot of content (very less fluff posts). 

[Clovdyx]

Am I the only person here with a dayjob?  I get on yesterday and try to generate activity, and nobody says anything until 5 in the morning.  Sheesh.

 

Anyways, to answer your question Verbal, I am a rolecop.  I obviously don't get any alignment information, and I don't get any character information (names or flavor).  I checked Tina N1 because I was suspicious of the trio and came up watcher.  This is why when people were questioning her I said that she wouldn't be in my bottom four at the time.  Checked Hallia last night based on her seemingly hinting at being the cop (and then retracting it), she came up as a JOAT.  Can't rule her out as scum because of it, but I like her chances to be town based on her being forthcoming with her role information earlier.

 

Right now, Despot is lock clear based on Darthe's death pretty much outing his character.  I'll clear Hallia because her claim matches my own results, and it doesn't seem like anything bad happened to Verbal (and Cory only died because his lover did).  That leaves Dawn, Tom, Verbal, Pral, and Lenlo.  I've made it perfectly clear how I feel about Dawn and Tom, so I'd be happy with either one of them.  Dawn still hasn't been able to back up her stance on Hallia, and Tom looked god awful to start the phase.

[Tommyrod]

Well, you are trying to link me with her based on something SHE said, not me. Which I frankly see as a very weak point because it doesn't make sense strategically.

 

However, I do not know why she did that. She clarified that I was not as active at the time but I find that point hard to believe because there were so many others like Hallia, Dice with similar postcount as me and I had a lot of content (very less fluff posts). 

 

...which would mean her reasoning makes little sense, right? Meaning... she's likely to be scum?

[Tommyrod]

Am I the only person here with a dayjob?  I get on yesterday and try to generate activity, and nobody says anything until 5 in the morning.  Sheesh.

 

Anyways, to answer your question Verbal, I am a rolecop.  I obviously don't get any alignment information, and I don't get any character information (names or flavor).  I checked Tina N1 because I was suspicious of the trio and came up watcher.  This is why when people were questioning her I said that she wouldn't be in my bottom four at the time.  Checked Hallia last night based on her seemingly hinting at being the cop (and then retracting it), she came up as a JOAT.  Can't rule her out as scum because of it, but I like her chances to be town based on her being forthcoming with her role information earlier.

 

Right now, Despot is lock clear based on Darthe's death pretty much outing his character.  I'll clear Hallia because her claim matches my own results, and it doesn't seem like anything bad happened to Verbal (and Cory only died because his lover did).  That leaves Dawn, Tom, Verbal, Pral, and Lenlo.  I've made it perfectly clear how I feel about Dawn and Tom, so I'd be happy with either one of them.  Dawn still hasn't been able to back up her stance on Hallia, and Tom looked god awful to start the phase.

 

Yay, captain condescenion is here! Read today and tell me if you think I still look "god awful."

[Tommyrod]

Role cop on one dead player and one claimed player is pretty convenient. 

[Tommyrod]

Could be a scum role cop as well, right?

[Clovdyx]

Role cop on one dead player and one claimed player is pretty convenient. 

 

There's been two night phases, and of the eight people alive, I make the seventh to have claimed.  Who exactly do you want me to provide results for? 

[Tommyrod]

 

Role cop on one dead player and one claimed player is pretty convenient. 

 

There's been two night phases, and of the eight people alive, I make the seventh to have claimed.  Who exactly do you want me to provide results for? 

 

 

It's the same problem as with Len: an unconfirmable claim.

[Tommyrod]

Since Verb is the character hinting king, Verb, does a role cop make sense for this theme?

[Clovdyx]

 

 

Role cop on one dead player and one claimed player is pretty convenient. 

 

There's been two night phases, and of the eight people alive, I make the seventh to have claimed.  Who exactly do you want me to provide results for? 

 

 

It's the same problem as with Len: an unconfirmable claim.

 

 

Currently, you're absolutely right.  You cannot confirm that I am a role cop right now.  You CAN, however, confirm that my reasoning for my targets is logical, and you CAN confirm I at least saw enough in Tina to not only abstain from voting for her D2 but kept her out of my suspects.  You'd think if I was scum, I'd have interest in hopping on somebody's lynch after they claim watcher.

[Tommyrod]

Same Q for you as to Pral, then. What's the scumteam? And don't include me in it, obviously.

[Clovdyx]

Same Q for you as to Pral, then. What's the scumteam? And don't include me in it, obviously.

 

....You want me to come up a scumteam that doesn't include you, the person I've been pushing the most this day phase because I'm convinced you're scum?  Is that a serious question?

[Tommyrod]

 

Same Q for you as to Pral, then. What's the scumteam? And don't include me in it, obviously.

 

....You want me to come up a scumteam that doesn't include you, the person I've been pushing the most this day phase because I'm convinced you're scum?  Is that a serious question?

 

Absolutely. 

[Clovdyx]

 

 

Same Q for you as to Pral, then. What's the scumteam? And don't include me in it, obviously.

 

....You want me to come up a scumteam that doesn't include you, the person I've been pushing the most this day phase because I'm convinced you're scum?  Is that a serious question?

 

 

Absolutely. 

 

 

If you're not in it, Dawn/Lenlo/Pral, I guess.  I have a feeling I know what Verbal's role is, and it's the least logical scumrole imaginable. 

[Tommyrod]

He openly claimed his role...

 

Why didn't you scan Lenlo last night? Why Hallia?

[Pralaya]

Well, I am looking at Hallia and her play with dawn. I know that they have pretty much going against each other today, without actually casing each other or pulling out past reads.

 

These were the only mentions of Dawn that Hallia has made in the game (except a beginning one which was mostly fluff)

 

Mmmmm.  Baked buffalo chicken and biscuits XD

 

10 page in break.

 

 

Des – Started out strong with the whymefryme case against Jack, his omgsus was sketchy looking. (although with Jack now having flipped town, I'm dubious against my own judgement.  I always think you're town.)

 

Darthe could've been trying to get town credit for saying Jack looked awkward rather than scummy.

 

Dawn – Her posting style is so erratic, I have a very hard time reading her.  I don't know if she's just naturally a fluffy poster like I am, er was..am/was?

This is when Hallia was back from her JCon and started reading the thread. She gives her reads based on it but these are the only three reads that she gives, which is interesting. Des and Darthe, I can understand - because they have been pretty active in the game and had been giving good cases. But, that mention of Dawn along with them is odd. Also, fencesitting on her - not explicityly saying anything.

 

 

I see how you could both easily be town.  You're both passionate players, Des just does it with more words, and you do it with a touch more sarcasm.  I'm leaning town on town right now.

I see how this could be likely, actually. I highly doubt that one is mafia and not the other.

 

 

 

Wait, what you just said contradicted.  You agree that they're both town, but when you say you doubt that one is mafia and not the other, that would indicate that you think one is mafia and one is town.  Which one did ya mean?

 

 

 

Wait, what you just said contradicted.  You agree that they're both town, but when you say you doubt that one is mafia and not the other, that would indicate that you think one is mafia and one is town.  Which one did ya mean?

I didn't contradict at all, I guess the way I worded it was confusing. I was trying to say that I think they are either both mafia or both town. I do not think that 1 is mafia and the other is town.

 

 

 

No worries Dawn!  I was there as a new player myself, I believe help is better to give than criticism.

 

Much better  Which do you think is more likely for the two of them?  I'm leaning town, what about you?

 

 

She's voting me so it shouldn't be a hard guess.

 

 

That's very true. 

 

Vote Dawn

 

 

 

That's very true. 

 

Vote Dawn

 

Well, that vote was random.

 

Then, there was this exchange somewhere along Day 2. Hallias vote on Dawn was pretty much random, as Dawn points out, and sudden. Either this was an opportunistic vote on hallia's part (which I am mostly think is) or a classic distancing move.

 

Verb, Dawn, mayyyybe Tom at the moment are who smell funky to me.

And, then she starts this thing during N2 and has pretty much had a back-and-forth (not extensice) come D3.

 

 

There are some interesting links between her and dawn but again I am thinking it has to do a lot with Hallia trying to bait her .

[Hallia]

He said why he went for me, and it kinda makes sense (He mentioned the whole me hinting at cop then retracting)

 

 

If I had to pick one person it'd be Dawn.

[Clovdyx]

He openly claimed his role...

 

Why didn't you scan Lenlo last night? Why Hallia?

 

I'd rather find out information on somebody who I don't have an opinion of, rather than somebody who I'm leaning one way or another.  I've stated several times that I thought Lenlo's claim seemed too OP'ed to be realistic, and it seemed like people were content lynching him down the road regardless of alignment to verify his information.  I was trying to clear/condemn the person who hinted at her role, then retracted it.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Oh I see what you're saying. Well I can guarantee I'm a VT, in the event you are as well, that would mean at least one role claim is a lie. Most likely would be Len, from a claims perspective maybe Hallia because JOAT could be scum and a cop view on Cory is an easy claim, and I'm not sure why Dawn threw in her VT claim with mine. This is why I hate claim games.

 

I hate claim games, too.  But this has come to that.  I also hate flavorspeccing, but it occurring anyway.

 

There is a 0% chance that Alice is not in this game.  Nobody else has claimed anything that could be even remotely construed as a role attributable to her.  If there was, that person would be up Lenlo's @$$ by now.  Nobody is.  Conclusion:  Lenlo is town and is not the lynch today, or any day.

 

There is a 0% chance that Jacob is not in this game.  Des' claim resembles what his role would be like.  Nobody is up Des' @$$ either.  Conclusion:  Des is town and is not the lynch today, or any day.

 

 

My role:  I can get a copy of whatever information a player gets in a night.  I targeted BFG on Night 1 and didn't receive anything, and then Hallia on Night 2.  The info I received was that I visited her.  This means she tracked me.  She has claimed JOAT and her N2 action was a track of me, which I can confirm.  This does not make her town or scum - she could be either.  That said, I'm getting a townie vibe (strong one) from Hallia, and I will not vote her today.  Conclusion:  Hallia is likely town and is not the lynch today.....but could be potentially considered for a future day.

 

Dawn, Tom, Pralaya have all claimed VT.

Pralaya - I have a strong town read on him, which I've documented well before this.  Conclusion:  Pralaya is likely town and is not the lynch today.....but could be potentially considered for a future day.

Dawn - I'm conflicted.  Has played this game like she's being coached, and was being obtuse about unvoting earlier.  I'm not sure if her being obtuse in that situation is simply due to being young and new......but I'm strongly leaning towards her being scum.  Conclusion:  Dawn is possible scum and on the table for a lynch today.

Tom - I think I've made my thoughts on him pretty well known by now.  Conclusion:  Tom is possible scum and on the table for a lynch today.

 

Clov is the wildcard that has not revealed yet.  We need his reveal.

 

 

Totes agree with all the reasoning in this post pretty much

 

I'm not really sure.

 

But I'll tell you right now that I am NOT SCUM. I'm not really expecting you to believe me though, based on how stupid the town is in this game. You are only focusing on how these 3 specific people might be scum. (Me, Clov, and Pral.) I'm actually laughing right now at how clueless you are and how much you seem to think I'm scum.

 

Also, Tommy: How come earlier in the game you were being friendly with me and thinking I was town, but now you think I'm scum? You question every single time I change what I think  someone's alignment is. Now I'm questioning yours.

 

Eww. Scummiest post of the game.

 

 

The point is the only evidence of you being town that you have, or apparently can, provide is "I am town."

 

This is not a defense, it's AtE at best, and kind of sad.

 

Show us who the scum are. Pretty simple.

So you want me to tell you who my scummates are? I can't tell you, 'cause I don't have any. I'm town. Maybe Pral and Clov are scum, but I can't tell you if they are. 

 

I think YOU are scum.

 

 

Oh gawrsh. This is... this is rull bad.

 

 

I read why you wanted me to unvote. I just didn't want to because I thought it was silly, since I'd probably end up voting Hallia again. 

might have, I don't know.

 

 

Pral seems the second most town to me after Verbal.

Good lord.  You have me in crunch time as your #1 town read, but you're questioning me and thinking my advice is silly?  Don't you think I'd have the town's best interests in mind by calling for an unvote that early in the day?

 

 

And Tom is just beating you senseless in the thunderdome you guys just had.  I mean, badly.

 

 

Tom and Dawn's Thunderdome:

 

 

 

Ok, here are my reads (scum to town)

Darthe 

Clov

Despo

Lenlo

Hallia

Dice

Verb

Tommy

 

And I have absolutely no clue about Laya. 

I'm getting a bit more suspicious of Lenlo. At first I completely believed his claim because he said it at a time where not everyone was trying to lynch him, which is a time a lot of mafia will fake claim, I think (because when I've been scum in other games, people would tell me to make fake claims as a last resort as soon as a lot of people tried to lynch me. I never did it though) But now, not so much - 2 of the 3 questions he asked would be pretty easy to figure out on his own. (And maybe the other, but I don't know what that role is so I can't say so.) And the other comments he has made after making that claim are kind of strange. 

 

Hallia's vote on me was really random. She just came in and voted me with no comment on my gameplay. I'm null on her right now just because of how confused I am by this.

 

And I've read a lot of Tommy's posts. I normally will not be confident that anyone's town, but he seems very trustworthy.

I think I just found the smoking gun. Check out this progression on reads. First, these are the only posts where Dawn mentions Clov before he becomes her #2 candidate. But even better, take a look at her list of reads. She's got Darthe at the bottom at me at the top when really she has no business giving me the strongest town lean in the game by that point; she said I 'sounded trustworthy' or some other made up read like that, I'm guessing someone told her not to push me. But by this point she's talked about her scumread on Des for like... ten or one dozen posts, and hasn't discussed Clov at all, yet there he is, scumread #2.

 

And who does she have no lean on?

 

Pral.

 

BOOM.

 

 

Seriously, you are overreaching if you are saying that we are connected because she put my name specifically as null that early in the game. I mean, not even a newbie would do something as obvious as that. Anyway, I am not sure why she put me like that but her responses are weak related to that.

 

 

To all: check out how this goes down.

 

1. Clov attacks Dawn for being inconsistent.

 

2. Dawn shifts the focus to how other people are scummy. Hallia, Des, Darthe. (Never talks about Clov himself. Never discussed why Clov was her #2 scumread earlier in the game. Never discusses why she moves him into lock clear town category after he nips at her heels for several days.)

 

3. Clov gives Dawn an "out" to work with him on pinning someone else. 

 

Classic distancing. And pretty sneakily executed, too.

 

 

I do agree somewhat to the connection between Clov and her though. Rather than naming someone, not mentioning or discussing someone is a bigger scumtell. Still not a definite but I can see what you are looking at.

 

 

Eww Pray. I had a town read on you until this post. Bleurgh.

 

Am I the only person here with a dayjob?  I get on yesterday and try to generate activity, and nobody says anything until 5 in the morning.  Sheesh.

 

Anyways, to answer your question Verbal, I am a rolecop.  I obviously don't get any alignment information, and I don't get any character information (names or flavor).  I checked Tina N1 because I was suspicious of the trio and came up watcher.  This is why when people were questioning her I said that she wouldn't be in my bottom four at the time.  Checked Hallia last night based on her seemingly hinting at being the cop (and then retracting it), she came up as a JOAT.  Can't rule her out as scum because of it, but I like her chances to be town based on her being forthcoming with her role information earlier.

 

Right now, Despot is lock clear based on Darthe's death pretty much outing his character.  I'll clear Hallia because her claim matches my own results, and it doesn't seem like anything bad happened to Verbal (and Cory only died because his lover did).  That leaves Dawn, Tom, Verbal, Pral, and Lenlo.  I've made it perfectly clear how I feel about Dawn and Tom, so I'd be happy with either one of them.  Dawn still hasn't been able to back up her stance on Hallia, and Tom looked god awful to start the phase.

 

ANOTHER investigative role? Not buying it, not as a town PR at least.

 

Could be a scum role cop as well, right?

 

Role Cops are waaaaay more often scum than town here.

 

And thank you for showing me you care Tommy.

 

Unvote, Vote Dawn

 

Thinking Tommy is right and that it's Dawn/Pray/Clov.

[Tommyrod]

[Leelou]

Vote Count

 

Dawn (2) - Tommy, Des

Not voting - Verbal, Lenlo, Pral, Hallia, Dawn, clov

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to vote 

 

Deadline today 6 pm EST

[Pralaya]

Same Q for you as to Pral, then. What's the scumteam? And don't include me in it, obviously.

Heh, nice try. Tommie, Hallia and I was thinking it could be verb/clov purely on the basis of PoE.

It could be Dawn too but then why would you or Hallia go after her so hard today? Unless you want to get lock cleared after her scum flip today?

[Tommyrod]

 

Same Q for you as to Pral, then. What's the scumteam? And don't include me in it, obviously.

Heh, nice try. Tommie, Hallia and I was thinking it could be verb/clov purely on the basis of PoE.

It could be Dawn too but then why would you or Hallia go after her so hard today? Unless you want to get lock cleared after her scum flip today?