[Advanced] Twilight Mafia Game over - Mafia win

[Tommyrod]

We're at MyLo and have about eight hours to come to a conclusion. If we lynch me today, the game ends. If we have any holstered claims, let's get it out on the table, there's not much time.

[dawnflower8]

I still think we should lynch Hallia.

[Hallia]

Still waiting on you to provide a legit reasoning

[Tommyrod]

7 hours...

[Hallia]

I'm still not thinking dawn is town. Her refusal to answer questions is silly.

[Tommyrod]

Dawn is on my shortlist.

[Pralaya]

^^

 

How short is it?

[dawnflower8]

I'm still not thinking dawn is town. Her refusal to answer questions is silly.

I'm not refusing, though - I'm answering right now.

 

Still waiting on you to provide a legit reasoning

Because your gameplay is incredibly confusing and you make random accusations without backing them up.

You are doing better now, though.

[Tommyrod]

^^

 

How short is it?

Are you gonna help?

[Tommyrod]

 

I'm still not thinking dawn is town. Her refusal to answer questions is silly.

I'm not refusing, though - I'm answering right now.

 

Still waiting on you to provide a legit reasoning

Because your gameplay is incredibly confusing and you make random accusations without backing them up.

You are doing better now, though.

 

[Verbal32]

Oh I see what you're saying. Well I can guarantee I'm a VT, in the event you are as well, that would mean at least one role claim is a lie. Most likely would be Len, from a claims perspective maybe Hallia because JOAT could be scum and a cop view on Cory is an easy claim, and I'm not sure why Dawn threw in her VT claim with mine. This is why I hate claim games.

 

I hate claim games, too.  But this has come to that.  I also hate flavorspeccing, but it occurring anyway.

 

There is a 0% chance that Alice is not in this game.  Nobody else has claimed anything that could be even remotely construed as a role attributable to her.  If there was, that person would be up Lenlo's @$$ by now.  Nobody is.  Conclusion:  Lenlo is town and is not the lynch today, or any day.

 

There is a 0% chance that Jacob is not in this game.  Des' claim resembles what his role would be like.  Nobody is up Des' @$$ either.  Conclusion:  Des is town and is not the lynch today, or any day.

 

 

My role:  I can get a copy of whatever information a player gets in a night.  I targeted BFG on Night 1 and didn't receive anything, and then Hallia on Night 2.  The info I received was that I visited her.  This means she tracked me.  She has claimed JOAT and her N2 action was a track of me, which I can confirm.  This does not make her town or scum - she could be either.  That said, I'm getting a townie vibe (strong one) from Hallia, and I will not vote her today.  Conclusion:  Hallia is likely town and is not the lynch today.....but could be potentially considered for a future day.

 

Dawn, Tom, Pralaya have all claimed VT.

Pralaya - I have a strong town read on him, which I've documented well before this.  Conclusion:  Pralaya is likely town and is not the lynch today.....but could be potentially considered for a future day.

Dawn - I'm conflicted.  Has played this game like she's being coached, and was being obtuse about unvoting earlier.  I'm not sure if her being obtuse in that situation is simply due to being young and new......but I'm strongly leaning towards her being scum.  Conclusion:  Dawn is possible scum and on the table for a lynch today.

Tom - I think I've made my thoughts on him pretty well known by now.  Conclusion:  Tom is possible scum and on the table for a lynch today.

 

Clov is the wildcard that has not revealed yet.  We need his reveal.

[Verbal32]

 

I'm still not thinking dawn is town. Her refusal to answer questions is silly.

I'm not refusing, though - I'm answering right now.

 

Still waiting on you to provide a legit reasoning

Because your gameplay is incredibly confusing and you make random accusations without backing them up.

You are doing better now, though.

 

 

Is this for real?  Seriously?  No other player in this game has been more confusing and obtuse that you.  None.  And you never said why you were ignoring my repeated requests to unvote.  Either you read the logic I provided and didn't understand it.......or you understood it and ignored it.

 

The first scenario means you should have asked me to explain in more detail, and the second one means you're prob scum.

[Verbal32]

Btw, the way Tom & Hallia are playing this last phase makes me think it is possible that only 1 of them is scum.  Depending on Clov's reveal, I'm probably not entertaining any other lynch than them.....which worries me if only 1 is scum.

[Hallia]

Can we vote her yet?

[Hallia]

Can we vote her yet?

[Hallia]

Double posts >.<

[Verbal32]

Can we vote her yet?

 

Not yet - we need input from Clov.  I lean town on Clov right now, which means I'm misreading at least 1 person.  I want to have all the info I can before making my own decision.

[Verbal32]

Unless it is Tom/Dawn/Pralaya, which would mean Pral fooled me pretty well.  But I'll wait for Clov before I figure that out.

[Tommyrod]

In case we lose today, for post-game bragging rights I think it's Pral, Dawn, Clov.

[Tommyrod]

One upside to a Dawn lynch today is it should be somewhat clearing for me. The interactions we've had so far are never scum/scum and she's talked to me a few times like she knows I'm a townie in awkward spots, especially the way she talked about me and Darthe. Lemme find some of that.

[Hallia]

I do find it odd that Clov seems to be avoiding the thread

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

As someone who loves lynching Darthe, I don't think you can take his "I voted you because you are mafia" line as anything but null. Dry sardonic quips are just him regardless of alignment. If anything, him not trying to impress anyone makes it slightly more likely that he's town than scum. So I'll say he's like 65% town to my eyes just from having talked to him so far; you're like 85%.

I've never played with him before; maybe he does things like that often. But that seems like a very new-player type thing to say.

 

Also, Darthe, what is your read on me? 

 

It's more like a sarcastic "I don't care how I look because I've made up my mind" thing to say. I'm not sure how that merits a scum lean even if someone else said it.  

 

I guess that makes sense, then. 

 

Here's an early example. She was saying that somehow both of Darthe and Des are scum, and while we were arguing about how that could be, I tried explaining why what she said about Darthe is scummy is just null for him (or most people really), and rather than arguing with me (because she kept the Darthe = scum read for days beyond this), she just kind of accepted it. 

 

 

 

Honestly that was really clear if you read any of the previous pages.  I have given nearly a dozen reasons to vote Des and you're flat ignoring each of those dawn?  It makes you appear incompetent at worst and like you just didn't read the thread at best.  

Yes, I know you gave reasons on previous pages. But I'm still wondering why you said it that way, instead of something like "You should know, I've given a bunch of reasons why I think you're scum"

 

 

This is perhaps the most disoriented I've been by a line of reasoning in a mafia game in the past year.

 

 

 

Gibberish, as we're all accustomed to.

 

 

 

No.  A me wrote that for me.  I'm too busy to argue the crappy points that Des selectively made, the people I was working with are either dead or gone and the two I'm left trying to argue a case to are either too ignorant to know what game they are playing or haven't read the thread and so trust the words of someone who is ******** OBVIOUS.  

 

What am I supposed to be but frustrated?  I consistently make the more logical, better reasoned and more tactically efficient play and you're too apathetic a group to recognize it.

 

But you're not using a lot of words and that's scummy

 

How is not using a lot of words scummy, necessarily? I know scum generally are not known to be WoTers, I think, but I'm pretty sure not using a lot of words has no connection to people being scum.

 

Also, you didn't use a lot of words in that post. And neither did I in this. Does that make all of us scum? No XD

 

 

 

And nope, I'm not defending Darthe here...I'm just saying that that was a pretty dumb point.

 

 

After I made a joke about how Darthe is scum for not posting as many words as Despot, she didn't get that it was a joke and ran with it. Doubt that happens if we're scum/scum.

 

He was kidding.

 

 

Yeah, I can see how this could become frustrating.

 

 

I see how you could both easily be town.  You're both passionate players, Des just does it with more words, and you do it with a touch more sarcasm.  I'm leaning town on town right now.

 

 

Wait, what you just said contradicted.  You agree that they're both town, but when you say you doubt that one is mafia and not the other, that would indicate that you think one is mafia and one is town.  Which one did ya mean?

 

 

 

Wait, what you just said contradicted.  You agree that they're both town, but when you say you doubt that one is mafia and not the other, that would indicate that you think one is mafia and one is town.  Which one did ya mean?

I didn't contradict at all, I guess the way I worded it was confusing. I was trying to say that I think they are either both mafia or both town. I do not think that 1 is mafia and the other is town.

 

 

 

No worries Dawn!  I was there as a new player myself, I believe help is better to give than criticism.

 

Much better  Which do you think is more likely for the two of them?  I'm leaning town, what about you?

 

 

She's voting me so it shouldn't be a hard guess.

 

 

That's very true. 

 

Vote Dawn

 

I don't think she'd be aligned with Hallia either.

[Tommyrod]

 

Clov: I don´t understand what he was doing on D1. Des says that he scum slipped. Clov tried to explain that if one of the votes on Des was a scum vote then it would have been Cory´s. But he never goes after Cory. Instead he votes Des himself. He also seems to stand on the side line - a comment here, a question there. At the same time I think he have made some logical posts. I have played with him before but don´t know how he played then or if he was town/mafia. I do get bad vibes here. 

If he actually scum slipped, why didn't more people vote for him? I have been rather suspicious of him since the beginning, but kind of forgot about him - maybe I shouldn't have. I missed him voting Des instead of Cory - that seems really strange.

 

This is a perfect example of a scum/scum distancing post. Why did Dawn single out this one part about Clov when Tina made reads on every player? This post is over a week old; has Dawn even discussed Clov since then? 

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Think about the other 2 games I've played. I was scum in both of those. And I don't think I'm really playing the same way as I did the other games, am I? Other games I was scum and was contributing more (even though I did joke around a lot in my last game.)

 

*flaps wings and clucks like a chicken*

 

This post right here- defending yourself by attempting to use your own meta- only strengthens the scumread I have on you Dawn.

 

Think about it for a sec.

 

How difficult would it be to change your playstyle a bit, after a couple of games as scum, in order to use this exact defense at this point? Not that difficult at all. This makes the point you raised completely moot.

 

Furthermore as a newer player, your meta is much more subject to change than most, but honestly I would contest that your play isn't even all that different. I don't care to compare those games with this one however- in this one, your play has seemed scummy to me. You have pretty much failed to contribute anything to the scumhunt, even tho you've been somewhat active. You extended RVS jokes past the stage where they were relevant. You tried blaming your lack of serious play on your PR, even tho your non-serious play was the reason you got a PR in the first place.

 

So why shouldn't I find you scummy, Dawn?

 

And while we're at it- what do you think of me? Do you think I'm scum? Do you have any confident town reads?

 

What you said about the playstyle is pretty true - especially since, at this point, I am playing worse than I did in my last 2 games (not worse as in scummier, worse as in seeming more new) when I think about it. 

 

I'm not getting very good reads this game. Yes, you are at the top of my list for scum - and not just because you are Team Jacob. If that was the case, I'd probably have unvoted you by now and voted Tina or Clov (the other 2 I have scum reads for) instead. The tone of your posts sounds kind of similar to the tone of someone who happened to be mafia in another game I played.

 

Since 3 seems to be the usual number of scum in a game, I'm guessing that the 3 scum are you, Tina, and Clov. 

 

Honsetly, Csarmi does not seem very scummy to me.

 

 

 

To answer Clov's question, my brother is Iceknight. He's even more of a newbie than I am. He basically makes random accusations and gives NO backup or the backup was  "you were mean to me!" and then starts spamming.

 

 

 

Clov: I don´t understand what he was doing on D1. Des says that he scum slipped. Clov tried to explain that if one of the votes on Des was a scum vote then it would have been Cory´s. But he never goes after Cory. Instead he votes Des himself. He also seems to stand on the side line - a comment here, a question there. At the same time I think he have made some logical posts. I have played with him before but don´t know how he played then or if he was town/mafia. I do get bad vibes here.

If he actually scum slipped, why didn't more people vote for him? I have been rather suspicious of him since the beginning, but kind of forgot about him - maybe I shouldn't have. I missed him voting Des instead of Cory - that seems really strange.

 

 

 

Ok, here are my reads (scum to town)

Darthe 

Clov

Despo

Lenlo

Hallia

Dice

Verb

Tommy

 

And I have absolutely no clue about Laya. 

I'm getting a bit more suspicious of Lenlo. At first I completely believed his claim because he said it at a time where not everyone was trying to lynch him, which is a time a lot of mafia will fake claim, I think (because when I've been scum in other games, people would tell me to make fake claims as a last resort as soon as a lot of people tried to lynch me. I never did it though) But now, not so much - 2 of the 3 questions he asked would be pretty easy to figure out on his own. (And maybe the other, but I don't know what that role is so I can't say so.) And the other comments he has made after making that claim are kind of strange. 

 

Hallia's vote on me was really random. She just came in and voted me with no comment on my gameplay. I'm null on her right now just because of how confused I am by this.

 

And I've read a lot of Tommy's posts. I normally will not be confident that anyone's town, but he seems very trustworthy.

I think I just found the smoking gun. Check out this progression on reads. First, these are the only posts where Dawn mentions Clov before he becomes her #2 candidate. But even better, take a look at her list of reads. She's got Darthe at the bottom at me at the top when really she has no business giving me the strongest town lean in the game by that point; she said I 'sounded trustworthy' or some other made up read like that, I'm guessing someone told her not to push me. But by this point she's talked about her scumread on Des for like... ten or one dozen posts, and hasn't discussed Clov at all, yet there he is, scumread #2.

 

And who does she have no lean on?

 

Pral.

 

BOOM.

[dawnflower8]

One upside to a Dawn lynch today is it should be somewhat clearing for me. The interactions we've had so far are never scum/scum and she's talked to me a few times like she knows I'm a townie in awkward spots, especially the way she talked about me and Darthe. Lemme find some of that.

If you lynch me, town loses the game. 

I wish I was allowed to character reveal.

 

 

One upside to a Dawn lynch today is it should be somewhat clearing for me. The interactions we've had so far are never scum/scum and she's talked to me a few times like she knows I'm a townie in awkward spots, especially the way she talked about me and Darthe. Lemme find some of that.

I don't "know" you are a townie. I'm leaning scum on you, actually. You just seemed trustworthy earlier, but now that I reread those posts, I guess I was just so focused on Darthe being scum that I thought you weren't just because you were siding with me. It makes me feel very gullible. 

 

 

 

Clov: I don´t understand what he was doing on D1. Des says that he scum slipped. Clov tried to explain that if one of the votes on Des was a scum vote then it would have been Cory´s. But he never goes after Cory. Instead he votes Des himself. He also seems to stand on the side line - a comment here, a question there. At the same time I think he have made some logical posts. I have played with him before but don´t know how he played then or if he was town/mafia. I do get bad vibes here. 

If he actually scum slipped, why didn't more people vote for him? I have been rather suspicious of him since the beginning, but kind of forgot about him - maybe I shouldn't have. I missed him voting Des instead of Cory - that seems really strange.

 

This is a perfect example of a scum/scum distancing post. Why did Dawn single out this one part about Clov when Tina made reads on every player? This post is over a week old; has Dawn even discussed Clov since then? 

 

I haven't had much to say about him since he's kind of inactive, I guess.

So did he scum slip or not?

 

 

 

I'm still not thinking dawn is town. Her refusal to answer questions is silly.

I'm not refusing, though - I'm answering right now.

 

Still waiting on you to provide a legit reasoning

Because your gameplay is incredibly confusing and you make random accusations without backing them up.

You are doing better now, though.

 

 

Is this for real?  Seriously?  No other player in this game has been more confusing and obtuse that you.  None.  And you never said why you were ignoring my repeated requests to unvote.  Either you read the logic I provided and didn't understand it.......or you understood it and ignored it.

 

The first scenario means you should have asked me to explain in more detail, and the second one means you're prob scum.

 

I read why you wanted me to unvote. I just didn't want to because I thought it was silly, since I'd probably end up voting Hallia again. 

might have, I don't know.