[Advanced] Twilight Mafia Game over - Mafia win

[Tommyrod]

Pral, before I get into this, do you think Lenlo is town or not? You kinda said you did, but I just want a straight answer. And if yes, why?

[Pralaya]

Yes, I think he is town. I have explained why in post #1566

[Tommyrod]

That's great. I can't see post numbers on mobile though. Is your read more based on behavior or claims? What do you make of Des not believing Lenlo's claim? Just town on town violence to you?

 

What's bothering me most about you is:

 

You're UTR. You're rarely around to participate in real time.

 

Your reads feel convenient. Your two scum reads are someone who may be a cop and someone that everyone has suspicion of given we haven't lynched scum yet. Your third is an either/or scenario that leaves your mislynch options open if you are scum.

 

I don't understand how you can say someone's claim is probably fake since we don't have enough VTs and then decide Len is town when his claim is by far the shakiest. Not one, not two, but three questions per night that can confirm role claims? That's insanely powerful and seems like a broken role, so I'm skeptical that it exists. It's also convenient that none of his questions have proven useful to us so far, and cannot be confirmed. His claim would be very easy to fake. So if you can expand on your town read of him, that would be nice.

 

I can't easily follow the progression on your reads. I don't remember you talking about Verb as a scum suspect of yours before today. If you have then correct me, but my other points still have me going ?_? about you.

 

If I put my suspicion of you into one word, it's "disconnected." We have a few players like that here... you, Clov, Dawn, Lenlo all come to mind. And hey, that's my scum group. I'm so good.

[Pralaya]

That's great. I can't see post numbers on mobile though. Is your read more based on behavior or claims? What do you make of Des not believing Lenlo's claim? Just town on town violence to you?

As I said, a bit of logic and a bit of subjective opinion on behavior. Clearing someone as town at this point of time is highly risky to scum and I see Lenlo cleared Des using his questions today. Today is LyLo and all Len had to do was lie about Des' role and would have got a direct lynch. Len is usually a risk-taker and he would have done it if he was scum. But, the fact is that he cleared him. And, that is a big town tell.

 

Des not believing Len is just Des being wrong in his reads, as I see.

 

You're UTR. You're rarely around to participate in real time.

I am not around in real time is because i am half-way around the world from most of you guys. But, I am here now.

 

Your reads feel convenient. Your two scum reads are someone who may be a cop and someone that everyone has suspicion of given we haven't lynched scum yet. Your third is an either/or scenario that leaves your mislynch options open if you are scum.

Again, a bit forced? Why do you think Hallia is cop? Didn't we throw that claim out Day 2? Also, I had my case on you as scum yesterday before lot of people started suspecting you.

 

I don't understand how you can say someone's claim is probably fake since we don't have enough VTs and then decide Len is town when his claim is by far the shakiest. Not one, not two, but three questions per night that can confirm role claims? That's insanely powerful and seems like a broken role, so I'm skeptical that it exists. It's also convenient that none of his questions have proven useful to us so far, and cannot be confirmed. His claim would be very easy to fake. So if you can expand on your town read of him, that would be nice.

See above for Len. Regarding VT, yeah, it is a conjecture based on my experience in mafia, however limited it is.

I don't think we have a cop. Len's role is supposed to be the "cop" in this game. I don't think it is overpowered and has a good chance of failing, like we saw today. It is easy to fake but that I don't see it being faked is what gives a town read on him.

 

I can't easily follow the progression on your reads. I don't remember you talking about Verb as a scum suspect of yours before today. If you have then correct me, but my other points still have me going ?_? about you.

One of Verb/Clov as scum is purely based on Process of Elimination.

 

Did you read my post at all?

 

"Verbal and Clov are null for me right now. Both have seemed very townish and I agree with their views and opinions. The third scum is definitely one of the two but at this point I am frankly not sure who. "

[Tommyrod]

Focusing on the last point: if both Verb and Clov seem very townie to you, shouldn't you be thinking "hmm, am I clearing someone incorrectly?"

[Pralaya]

Yes, that is exactly what I am doing. Today, with LyLo, I had rather go with my scum reads than mislynching on those two.

[Tommyrod]

Yes, that is exactly what I am doing. Today, with LyLo, I had rather go with my scum reads than mislynching on those two.

It looks like you're saying "one of these two townie looking players must be scum."

 

And that's scummy.

 

I don't get why you're lock clearing Dawn. Objectively, she's scummier than most of your stated mafia leans.

[Pralaya]

As I said, that is purely based on PoE. I can see that you are trying to direct the focus there instead of my actual scum reads.

 

I have had Dawn as my town read long back. She is new to mafia and from what I have seen of her as scum, she makes slips which are easier to cath. i don't see that here. She has been more straightforward in her game here.

[Hallia]

Which could easily be indicative of good coaching

[Tommyrod]

As I said, that is purely based on PoE. I can see that you are trying to direct the focus there instead of my actual scum reads.

 

I have had Dawn as my town read long back. She is new to mafia and from what I have seen of her as scum, she makes slips which are easier to cath. i don't see that here. She has been more straightforward in her game here.

Red: lol.

 

Your reasoning reads as far flimsier than my own tone reads, which I can at least explain when prompted.

 

How can you call her straightforward when she barely engages the thread?

[Tommyrod]

Which could easily be indicative of good coaching

Who would you say is capable of this?

[Hallia]

Anyone left, really. Everyone has decent experience that's still alive

[Tommyrod]

You're voting for Dawn, yes? Thoughts on Clov and Pral?

[Verbal32]

 

Which could easily be indicative of good coaching

Who would you say is capable of this?

 

 

If I were to tell you it looks as if you're willing to go in any direction if you think another player is willing to listen, what would you reply with?

[Verbal32]

Pralaya is correct on Lenlo.  If he was scum, he'd simply lie and say that the answers don't support Des......who would be a very likely lynch prospect.  He's been doubted all game, so that would be an easy way for the mafia to achieve a mislynch.

 

But he didn't - he confirmed Des.  Even though it is possible that he's confident we'll mislynch anyway and just in case wants to falsely clear Des (if they are both scum), they are off the table for today.

 

Tom is voting Clov, but looks to be hunting for a better target that people would join.  This is not indicative of townie behavior.

 

 

 

@Hallia - as you can see, this is a must-hit lynch.  If we mislynch, the game is over.  Full reveal - what is your exact role?

[Verbal32]

Also, UNVOTE PEOPLE.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

Which could easily be indicative of good coaching

Who would you say is capable of this?

If I were to tell you it looks as if you're willing to go in any direction if you think another player is willing to listen, what would you reply with?

I'm willing to be cooperative to an extent. I suggest you look elsewhere because if you end up tunneling on me it's gonna make today's lynch difficult. I'm voting for Pral, by the by.

[Verbal32]

I know, but he's off the table for today.  Please unvote.

[Tommyrod]

I know, but he's off the table for today. Please unvote.

##Unvote

 

I'll elaborate a little more on why what you said about me seeking any lynch I can is silly.

 

I was once told that Hallia has eerily good intuition for scumhunting but has difficulty articulating her reasons. If she's town, as I currently believe, then she's read or vetted me as town and has read or vetted Dawn as scum. Seeking her opinion on two of my other suspects isn't hopping around, it's good play to gather as many opinions as possible. Maybe she agrees with me or noticed something I didn't. Doesn't hurt to ask. Not sure why that bothers you tbh.

 

I would guess you're mentally invested in the idea of me being scum and want to match evidence to your hypothesis rather than the other way around. I do that too sometimes. Gets me into hot water XD

[Leelou]

Vote Count

 

Tommy (1) - Clov

Lenlo (1) - Des

Hallia (1) - Dawn

Dawn (1) - Hallia

 

Not voting - Verbal, Lenlo, Pral, Tommy

 

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to vote

[Verbal32]

 

I know, but he's off the table for today. Please unvote.

##Unvote

 

I'll elaborate a little more on why what you said about me seeking any lynch I can is silly.

 

I was once told that Hallia has eerily good intuition for scumhunting but has difficulty articulating her reasons. If she's town, as I currently believe, then she's read or vetted me as town and has read or vetted Dawn as scum. Seeking her opinion on two of my other suspects isn't hopping around, it's good play to gather as many opinions as possible. Maybe she agrees with me or noticed something I didn't. Doesn't hurt to ask. Not sure why that bothers you tbh.

 

I would guess you're mentally invested in the idea of me being scum and want to match evidence to your hypothesis rather than the other way around. I do that too sometimes. Gets me into hot water XD

 

 

Re: Hallia - that was an opinion of somebody, obviously....but I don't share the same opinion.  My opinion of Hallia is that she's still new, but making concerted efforts to remove the lurker tag she still currently has.  When invested in the game, she knows how to play and generally give reads based on how she feels - she's more of a gut player than a logic player.

 

I might be a shortcoming on my part, but I'm not able to mindmeld with gut players that often.  I prefer logic players.  Which brings me to the bold.

 

No.  I'm taking the evidence you're leaving on the thread that both Clov and I are calling out (note: this doesn't make Clov town, btw), and trying to logically think of your reasons for playing that way.  Why would you make those plays - say those things?  What would be the logical objective of a town player?  How about a scum player?

 

After going through that exercise from when you first joined and up until mid-D2, I would have cleared you as town.  But once the latter parts of D2 arrived, I had misgivings about my prior read.  The way you engaged me during Tina's lynch started setting off alarms, and now the way you're handling this D3 is leading me to believe the reasons & plays you've made fit better with the agenda of a scum player.

[Verbal32]

Clov / Des / Dawn / Hallia - PLEASE UNVOTE.

 

 

 

@Leelou - do we have a deadline for D3?

[Leelou]

Friday 6 pm EST

[dawnflower8]

Clov / Des / Dawn / Hallia - PLEASE UNVOTE.

 

 

 

@Leelou - do we have a deadline for D3?

Why do you want us to unvote? 

[Verbal32]

Please don't ask questions that I've already explained within the last couple of pages.

 

Are you town?  If so, and you are wrong about your read and currently voting another townie.....if one more townie piles on, the entire scum team can quick-swap and the game is over.

 

See, you don't even have to read back - I just explained it.