[Advanced] Twilight Mafia Game over - Mafia win

[Clovdyx]

That's because Tom seemed very town to me earlier. I'm starting to rethink that now because I am very confused as to why he was siding with me...he would but make any good progress from that so if was kind of pointless for him to do.

 

What you said about Des and Darthe it's EXACTLY why I thought they were scum..."there's no plausible reason for them to focus on attacking each other"

 

And HALLIA is the one with the most inconsistent reads-to-actions.

 

And I don't even remember why I read you as scum earlier...that has changed now. You are probably town.

 

Bold - But there is a good reason for them to focus on attacking each other.  At least one felt the other was town.  If either was town (we now know Darthe was, and Des has looked better over the past couple phases), he wouldn't have any idea what the other's alignment was.  You have to expect that townies aren't going to see eye to eye all the time, and I'm not sure how else they SHOULD have acted....not push somebody they were highly suspicious of?

 

Underlined - I can work with that.  What examples are you referring to?

[Tommyrod]

That's because Tom seemed very town to me earlier. I'm starting to rethink that now because I am very confused as to why he was siding with me...he would but make any good progress from that so if was kind of pointless for him to do.

 

What you said about Des and Darthe it's EXACTLY why I thought they were scum..."there's no plausible reason for them to focus on attacking each other"

 

And HALLIA is the one with the most inconsistent reads-to-actions.

 

And I don't even remember why I read you as scum earlier...that has changed now. You are probably town.

What do you mean by this? 

 

What did Clov do to become town to you? 

[Clovdyx]

 

That's because Tom seemed very town to me earlier. I'm starting to rethink that now because I am very confused as to why he was siding with me...he would but make any good progress from that so if was kind of pointless for him to do.

 

What you said about Des and Darthe it's EXACTLY why I thought they were scum..."there's no plausible reason for them to focus on attacking each other"

 

And HALLIA is the one with the most inconsistent reads-to-actions.

 

And I don't even remember why I read you as scum earlier...that has changed now. You are probably town.

 

Bold - But there is a good reason for them to focus on attacking each other.  At least one felt the other was town.  If either was town (we now know Darthe was, and Des has looked better over the past couple phases), he wouldn't have any idea what the other's alignment was.  You have to expect that townies aren't going to see eye to eye all the time, and I'm not sure how else they SHOULD have acted....not push somebody they were highly suspicious of?

 

Underlined - I can work with that.  What examples are you referring to?

 

 

I just re-read the entire thread beginning when Hallia came back, and I didn't see anything where she seemed inconsistent.  The most notable thing she's done this game IMO was her role in vetting Tina's claim.  She made it clear she had reason to trust what Tina was saying and could justify her trust in Tina.  She never COMPLETELY cleared Tina as town.  Tom asked if she'd lynch Tina at L-1 to avoid punishment, Hallia said yes, she ended up voting to avoid punishment. 

 

She made it clear who she thought was scum during the phase and was on him for a majority of it.  Her vouching for Verb today seems in line with how she handled the Tina situation. 

 

What did you think was off?

[Hallia]

Exactly. Her constantly misconstruing anything I say is scummy as all get out.

 

Vote Dawn

[Clovdyx]

 

That's because Tom seemed very town to me earlier. I'm starting to rethink that now because I am very confused as to why he was siding with me...he would but make any good progress from that so if was kind of pointless for him to do.

 

What you said about Des and Darthe it's EXACTLY why I thought they were scum..."there's no plausible reason for them to focus on attacking each other"

 

And HALLIA is the one with the most inconsistent reads-to-actions.

 

And I don't even remember why I read you as scum earlier...that has changed now. You are probably town.

 

Bold - But there is a good reason for them to focus on attacking each other.  At least one felt the other was town.  If either was town (we now know Darthe was, and Des has looked better over the past couple phases), he wouldn't have any idea what the other's alignment was.  You have to expect that townies aren't going to see eye to eye all the time, and I'm not sure how else they SHOULD have acted....not push somebody they were highly suspicious of?

 

Underlined - I can work with that.  What examples are you referring to?

 

 

 

That's because Tom seemed very town to me earlier. I'm starting to rethink that now because I am very confused as to why he was siding with me...he would but make any good progress from that so if was kind of pointless for him to do.

 

What you said about Des and Darthe it's EXACTLY why I thought they were scum..."there's no plausible reason for them to focus on attacking each other"

 

And HALLIA is the one with the most inconsistent reads-to-actions.

 

And I don't even remember why I read you as scum earlier...that has changed now. You are probably town.

What do you mean by this? 

 

What did Clov do to become town to you? 

 

 

Exactly. Her constantly misconstruing anything I say is scummy as all get out.

 

Vote Dawn

 

Dudette bolted.

[Tommyrod]

C'mon guys, this is sad.

[Verbal32]

C'mon guys, this is sad.

This isn't the kind of response I was hoping for....

[Tommyrod]

 

C'mon guys, this is sad.

This isn't the kind of response I was hoping for....

 

Buzz off. 

[Verbal32]

Ok, because you aske.........wait.

 

YOU ALMOST HAD ME.

[Verbal32]

I don't want to vote yet. I think Tom is scum....but I want the whole team.

 

Let's talk more.

[Tommyrod]

I just want people to at least pretend to be interested. Attack me, if you want. Do SOMETHING. I've had a handful of weak detractors pester me today, including you, but now people aren't doing anything. Dawn left, I'm not even sure if Clov still thinks I'm scum, Pral is never around, Des doesn't seem to care, Hallia is Hallia... etc.

[Tommyrod]

I don't want to vote yet. I think Tom is scum....but I want the whole team.

 

Let's talk more.

Thank you. Let's do this. Come at me, bro.

[Tommyrod]

I know someone is going to snarkily ask me "why aren't you going crazy on the thread?"

The answer is because I hate you.

 

The real answer is because I'm exhausted and want someone else to pitch in for a while. If I get it wrong today, we probably lose. Woop. 

[Leelou]

Vote Count

 

Tommy (1) - Clov

Clov (1) - Tommy

Lenlo (1) - Des

Hallia (1) - Dawn

Dawn (1) - Hallia

 

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to vote

[Verbal32]

 

I don't want to vote yet. I think Tom is scum....but I want the whole team.

 

Let's talk more.

Thank you. Let's do this. Come at me, bro.

 

 

Heh,  You are defending with snark and terse replies.  It looks like you're trying to fabricate the emotion a townie would respond with.  Townies fire back in emorage, and then explain once they settle.  You're doing the first, and then not coming back with anything.

 

I know you'll say we've not presented anything, but I disagree.  Clov did, and pretty well I thought.  I sensed this about you late yesterday, and it was pretty much what I lead off with today.  I even displayed my hesitation to go through with the Tina lynch, and it was in large part due to 2 things:

 

1.  Hallia's weird reveal/unreveal/whatever that was.

 

2.  The way you were "priming" me to bluster forward with Tina's lynch.  It was too transparent.  It was too faked.  Townies don't post like that.  They don't use words like "excite" when it comes to a lynch we had planned on vetting via NAs.

 

 

What are the odds you're lynched today versus say, me?  We need to hit scum today - without the Doc, we might be in a complete LYLO right now with 3 scum left.  Mislynch and a successful NK means scum equal town.

 

This is crunch time, baby.  There's no scenario where I'm not pushing the lynch I want through in crunch time.  So you best show me why it shouldn't be you.  But take your time.  I like reading your posts.

[Pralaya]

Wow, I don't know what Des was thinking when he vig-ged Darthe.  Yeah, he mentioned that his role was weak and not much loss because of it, but I disagree. Hitting town has definitely put us under pressure today. Lenlo was supposed to clear townies today and I think his role has been wasted.

 

Anyway, I don't think we should be rushing today as Verbal correctly pointed out that we are in a LyLo situation here. 

 

Looking at the remaining members, we have claimed or almost confirmed PRs, VTs and unknowns

 

Des - Vig

Lenlo - Oracle

Hallia - unknown PR

 

Dawn - Claimed VT

Tommy - Claimed VT

 

Verbal - unknown

Clov - unknown

Me - unknown

 

If we assume all the claimed PRs to be town, that would mean that there are only 1 or 2 VTs in the game (taking out 3 scums who are remaining). I personally feel that it is too low for a non-role madness, 14 player game. Which makes me think that one of the claimed PRs is most probably a scum and hiding in plain sight.

 

Of the claims, I think Des and Len are more or less believable. Yes, Len was cornered with the questions he could ask based on the discussion during the game. He could have modified the answers to his questions once he saw the coroner reports of Darthe and Dice. But, if he was scum, i doubt he will be  trying to clear the remaining townie. I am sure he could have improvised with the wordings of his questions and creating more doubts, but he did not attempt any of that and that makes me believe his claim. If we consider Len as town, then Des is also cleared as town. I am really doubtful about Hallia. One, her PR is just based on the fact that Tina watched her visit Cory, which could be either a town or scum PR. I am more concerned about her gameplay, some of which i have cased in my post yesterday, and based on that I think she is scum.

 

Between Dawn and Tommy, I  am confident that Dawn's claim of VT is true. She has been scum in two games she has played and she has been very different in this game. As a town, this would be her first non-scum game and her claim matches with that behaviour. I am already very suspicious of Tommy as I mentioned earlier in my post yesterday.

 

Verbal and Clov are null for me right now. Both have seemed very townish and I agree with their views and opinions. The third scum is definitely one of the two but at this point I am frankly not sure who. 

 

I would vote Hally or Tommy today because I am fairly confident both are scum

[Tommyrod]

 

 

I don't want to vote yet. I think Tom is scum....but I want the whole team.

 

Let's talk more.

Thank you. Let's do this. Come at me, bro.

 

 

Heh,  You are defending with snark and terse replies.  It looks like you're trying to fabricate the emotion a townie would respond with.  Townies fire back in emorage, and then explain once they settle.  You're doing the first, and then not coming back with anything.

 

I know you'll say we've not presented anything, but I disagree.  Clov did, and pretty well I thought.  I sensed this about you late yesterday, and it was pretty much what I lead off with today.  I even displayed my hesitation to go through with the Tina lynch, and it was in large part due to 2 things:

 

1.  Hallia's weird reveal/unreveal/whatever that was.

 

2.  The way you were "priming" me to bluster forward with Tina's lynch.  It was too transparent.  It was too faked.  Townies don't post like that.  They don't use words like "excite" when it comes to a lynch we had planned on vetting via NAs.

 

 

What are the odds you're lynched today versus say, me?  We need to hit scum today - without the Doc, we might be in a complete LYLO right now with 3 scum left.  Mislynch and a successful NK means scum equal town.

 

This is crunch time, baby.  There's no scenario where I'm not pushing the lynch I want through in crunch time.  So you best show me why it shouldn't be you.  But take your time.  I like reading your posts.

 

The blue is the part I agree with. The rest I chalk up to cultural differences. That moment when I asked why you weren't excited -- I was suspicious of your change in behavior, not forcing your hand. What's funny is some of the things you say are inherently wolfy or "a townie never does this" are de facto villager behavior on 2+2 and I am apparently indoctrinated. (It really can be a whole different game and culture there, you should check it out for kicks. You'll understand why tone reading becomes important when people are primarily posting and arguing in real-time.) I don't think you're a good lynch today for a couple reasons, one being Hallia vetted you with something, but more importantly, you've got good tone (I know you hate it) and I'm not sure you would or could get this snarky with me as scum. I don't think I have any scum meta on you, so I could be wrong, but that's what my gut is telling me. This evening I'll see what I can find in the thread that will help. It would be nice if you did the same.

[Tommyrod]

 

Wow, I don't know what Des was thinking when he vig-ged Darthe.  Yeah, he mentioned that his role was weak and not much loss because of it, but I disagree. Hitting town has definitely put us under pressure today. Lenlo was supposed to clear townies today and I think his role has been wasted.

 

Anyway, I don't think we should be rushing today as Verbal correctly pointed out that we are in a LyLo situation here. 

 

Looking at the remaining members, we have claimed or almost confirmed PRs, VTs and unknowns

 

Des - Vig

Lenlo - Oracle

Hallia - unknown PR

 

Dawn - Claimed VT

Tommy - Claimed VT

 

Verbal - unknown

Clov - unknown

Me - unknown

 

If we assume all the claimed PRs to be town, that would mean that there are only 1 or 2 VTs in the game (taking out 3 scums who are remaining). I personally feel that it is too low for a non-role madness, 14 player game. Which makes me think that one of the claimed PRs is most probably a scum and hiding in plain sight.

 

Of the claims, I think Des and Len are more or less believable. Yes, Len was cornered with the questions he could ask based on the discussion during the game. He could have modified the answers to his questions once he saw the coroner reports of Darthe and Dice. But, if he was scum, i doubt he will be  trying to clear the remaining townie. I am sure he could have improvised with the wordings of his questions and creating more doubts, but he did not attempt any of that and that makes me believe his claim. If we consider Len as town, then Des is also cleared as town. I am really doubtful about Hallia. One, her PR is just based on the fact that Tina watched her visit Cory, which could be either a town or scum PR. I am more concerned about her gameplay, some of which i have cased in my post yesterday, and based on that I think she is scum.

 

Between Dawn and Tommy, I  am confident that Dawn's claim of VT is true. She has been scum in two games she has played and she has been very different in this game. As a town, this would be her first non-scum game and her claim matches with that behaviour. I am already very suspicious of Tommy as I mentioned earlier in my post yesterday.

 

Verbal and Clov are null for me right now. Both have seemed very townish and I agree with their views and opinions. The third scum is definitely one of the two but at this point I am frankly not sure who. 

 

I would vote Hally or Tommy today because I am fairly confident both are scum

 

 

It seems weird or arbitrary to polarize the players like this. "One of the role claims must be fake," "I trust Dawn's claim but not Tom's" "one of Verb or Clov is definitely scum." Some of the logic seems bad "If Lenlo is town, then Des is town" and I'm a bit uncomfortable that he doesn't have a secret or tinfoil wolf candidate. I'm uncomfortable with him declaring that he completely believes Dawn's claim, notes there aren't enough VT claims, yet is still suspicious of me. Topping it off with Hallia or Tommy? That's a pretty lazy, consensus-y list, and at least half wrong. All in all it's quite the fencesitting post.

 

##Unvote 

 

##Vote Pral

 

Curious if anyone agrees.

[Leelou]

Vote Count

 

Tommy (1) - Clov

Pral (1) - Tommy

Lenlo (1) - Des

Hallia (1) - Dawn

Dawn (1) - Hallia

 

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to vote

[Pralaya]

It seems weird or arbitrary to polarize the players like this. "One of the role claims must be fake," "I trust Dawn's claim but not Tom's" "one of Verb or Clov is definitely scum." Some of the logic seems bad "If Lenlo is town, then Des is town" and I'm a bit uncomfortable that he doesn't have a secret or tinfoil wolf candidate. I'm uncomfortable with him declaring that he completely believes Dawn's claim, notes there aren't enough VT claims, yet is still suspicious of me. Topping it off with Hallia or Tommy? That's a pretty lazy, consensus-y list, and at least half wrong. All in all it's quite the fencesitting post.

 

##Unvote 

 

##Vote Pral

 

Curious if anyone agrees.

 

It is combining a logical thought process, with subjective alignment reads on the players, with reasons. Do you think that all the claims are believable? If not, why?

 

And, how is it fencesitting when I am naming who is scum? You are just making a forced post to vote me now. 

For example - regardin "If Lenlo is town, then Des is town" - Are you saying that the mod was lying when she cleared the "the town aligned role that gets a vig shot after another role/players death"? 

[Tommyrod]

What's up with your formatting?

 

After coffee I'll try to explain further.

[Verbal32]

What's funny is some of the things you say are inherently wolfy or "a townie never does this" are de facto villager behavior on 2+2 and I am apparently indoctrinated. (It really can be a whole different game and culture there, you should check it out for kicks. You'll understand why tone reading becomes important when people are primarily posting and arguing in real-time.)

 

I played in the first Champions game.  ;-)

 

Granted, that was a big bucket of people who were not familiar with 2+2, so I understand the normal playstyle there was not very apparent.  They also burst out of the gates with an insane amount of posts, and they never slowed down on weekends (lol), so I ended up barely staying afloat.  Just when I starting hitting my stride, I was killed.

[Verbal32]

 

It seems weird or arbitrary to polarize the players like this. "One of the role claims must be fake," "I trust Dawn's claim but not Tom's" "one of Verb or Clov is definitely scum." Some of the logic seems bad "If Lenlo is town, then Des is town" and I'm a bit uncomfortable that he doesn't have a secret or tinfoil wolf candidate. I'm uncomfortable with him declaring that he completely believes Dawn's claim, notes there aren't enough VT claims, yet is still suspicious of me. Topping it off with Hallia or Tommy? That's a pretty lazy, consensus-y list, and at least half wrong. All in all it's quite the fencesitting post.

 

##Unvote 

 

##Vote Pral

 

Curious if anyone agrees.

 

It is combining a logical thought process, with subjective alignment reads on the players, with reasons. Do you think that all the claims are believable? If not, why?

 

And, how is it fencesitting when I am naming who is scum? You are just making a forced post to vote me now. 

For example - regardin "If Lenlo is town, then Des is town" - Are you saying that the mod was lying when she cleared the "the town aligned role that gets a vig shot after another role/players death"? 

 

 

Ouch.  Don't do this to me, Pralaya - I've got you as a town read.  What if Lenlo is lying?  You even suggested that before....

[Verbal32]

@Everybody - you guys need to unvote.  We can't afford to have a couple townies jump on the wrong lynch and then have the entire scum team pile on for the win.

 

Let's slow play this day and talk about everything.  No reason to do otherwise.

[Pralaya]

 

 

It is combining a logical thought process, with subjective alignment reads on the players, with reasons. Do you think that all the claims are believable? If not, why?

 

And, how is it fencesitting when I am naming who is scum? You are just making a forced post to vote me now. 

For example - regardin "If Lenlo is town, then Des is town" - Are you saying that the mod was lying when she cleared the "the town aligned role that gets a vig shot after another role/players death"? 

 

 

Ouch.  Don't do this to me, Pralaya - I've got you as a town read.  What if Lenlo is lying?  You even suggested that before....

 

 

You are taking it out of context. I was explaining the logic of how Des is town if Lenlo is town. Of course, I am assuming that Lenlo is not lying if he is town which i think is a fair assumption.