The Hunt For The Black Ajah In The White Tower

[BlueHarry]

First, these scenes are among my favorites. Just wanted to say that.

What I want to know is have we ever found out from RJ what are the three oaths the Black Ajah swears? Also, what are the popular theories? Obliviously one is that a black sister cannot reveal anything about the Black Ajah, or something like that.

Also, is there a number (from RJ?) of how many Aes Sedai there are, how they are divided up into Ajahs, and how many are Black Ajah?

Thanks.

[rd2000]

They work in three-woman teams. Each member of a team knows a single BA sister in another team. There is a supreme council and it consitst of 12 or 13 BA Aes Sedai.

[Guest cwestervelt]

They work in three-woman teams. Each member of a team knows a single BA sister in another team. There is a supreme council and it consitst of 12 or 13 BA Aes Sedai.

 

I'm pretty sure it is 13. Alviarin is the head of the Supreme Council.

 

I don't know of anywhere that states an actually number of Aes Sedai. The most reasonable estimates I have seen point at around 1000' date=' split roughly into 3 equal parts at the moment.

 

Somewhere Jordan gives some information about the number of Darkfriends in the general public. Unfortunately, I can't find the quote right now. One thing I noticed is that, based on what he said, the concentration of Darkfriends within the White Tower would need to be significantly higher than in the general public if that 1000 Aes Sedai number is accurate.

 

Edit: I found the quote. It is in the BWB and I had been looking on line.

A city of one hundred thousand probably contains between five hundred to a thousand Darkfriends. Every town or village visited by merchant caravans probably hosts a cell.

 

Based on that quote, there is between 1/2 to 1 percent of the population in a major city that is a Darkfriend. If percentage holds true for communities of all sizes, you can see why I say the White Tower has an abnormally high concentration if the 1000 Aes Sedai is true. Otherwise, you would get the 13 on the supreme council and not have anyone else left over.

 

Edit 2: I did some further checking on numbers, and New Spring The Novel places the numbers at roughly 1200 total Aes Sedai. It doesn't help get a number to the Black Ajah, but it does confirm an abnormally high concentration based on the number of Black Sisters we have seen so far.

 

The tower had been built to house three thousand sisters' date=' but only four hundred and twenty-three were in residence at the moment, with perhaps twice that many more scattered across the nations.[/quote']

[algspkr]

There are about 300 AS with the rebels. 220-250 with Eliada, she had about 300 but the Black Tower and Dumis Wells cost her. There are about 300 unaccounted for.

 

RJ said roughly 1 in 20 are Darkfriends, but I believe it is closer to 1 in 10 for Aes Sedai.

 

In Alvairin's PoV she said that blacks swear not to betray their Ajah, this was also hinted by Adeleas and Vandene.

[Guest cwestervelt]

There are about 300 AS with the rebels. 220-250 with Eliada' date=' she had about 300 but the Black Tower and Dumis Wells cost her. There are about 300 unaccounted for.

 

RJ said roughly 1 in 20 are Darkfriends, but I believe it is closer to 1 in 10 for Aes Sedai.

 

In Alvairin's PoV she said that blacks swear not to betray their Ajah, this was also hinted by Adeleas and Vandene.[/quote']

 

Where has RJ said 1 in 20 are Darkfriends? The best I can find is in the BWB which gives 500 to 1000 Darkfriends would be in a city of 100,000 people. That is only 1/2 to 1 percent not the 5% you mention.

[BlueHarry]

Uhh... I want to just mention that I have read all the books, but I never read "The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time". I am told that it has a lot of info, but what exactly I don't know. Does this book say anything on the subject?

 

I am guessing that if Ishamael wasn't completely trapped for the 3000 years or so, then could he have had a hand in having more black sisters around? That might have something to do with the numbers. Plus channels are able to be turned against their will. I'm sure it's happened, but RJ isn't going to bother mentioning every last trick the Black Ajah did in their history. End result: if the numbers don't match up with the rest of the populations' percentages, then something else is going on behind the scenes. I doubt it's a mistake on RJ's part.

 

I really wish RJ would have spent another few chapters on the subject. The search by the Tower Aes Sedai is really fascinating. I can't wait to see the end of that story line. I think that the whole Black Ajah is going to either attack everyone else, or run away together and be at the last battle as a group.

[Guest cwestervelt]

That is the book I refered to as the BWB (Big White Book) and is the source of the 500 to 1,000 Darkfriends for a city of 100,000 or 0.5 to 1.0% of the population. The full title is a little much to use regularly.

[stoneface]

The AS are not only women who can channel, but women who are driven enough to put themselves through the drudgery of Novice work and Accepted work, and pass the tests. DFs (including BA) are driven by a desire to put themselves higher than others (DFs may not be after conventional stature; old Cully the beggar has a lot of clout as a DF). Most of the AS are always scheming even though they ostensibly walk in the Light. The AS seem to draw or create a lot of puffed up egos; this seems like fertile ground for DFs. Other positions of power will also draw DFs like flies to a midden.

 

As the saying goes, power tends to corrupt. DFs (including BA) are a systematic and formalized corruption; the many who claim to walk in the Light while serving only their own interests are also corrupt. (Hats off to RJ for creating such richness in the WoT world.)

 

Regarding the BA oaths, there are many references to the oaths that normal DFs have taken. Apparently the BA has three oaths sworn on the oath rod (to maintain the ageless look due to the "binder" effect); I expect that the BA oaths are similar to the DF oaths, but made specific to the BA. Serving the DO and keeping the BA/DF secrets will do for two. Anyone know anything definite?

[BlueHarry]

Good point. You know, if the Aes Sedai would be considered Black Ajah because of personal corruption or just being really bad people, I think half the tower would be BA. But in RJ's books, evil has to swear to the Dark One first, so that's a big save for the majority of Aes Sedai. But if we would make them accountable for their actions... I wouldn't think any of the Aes Sedai could be considered that they walk in the Light.

[Luckers]

Unfortunately Aes Sedai trainign presents itself for that kind of corruption. To pass you are required to assume that you are better then other people.

 

Also, Elaida's numbers are fairly low. She had between 270 and 290 and lost 51 to the black tower and 27 to Dumai's Wells. Another 11 arn't allowed back in the tower. so shes lost 89. Which makes her numbers between 181 and 201.

[BlueHarry]

Does anyone know if there is a thread where fans throw around their ideas what RJ will do with the Black Ajah search in the WT in book 12?

(I don't know if I should post ideas here, because of spoiler warnings?) (I'm a bit confused about when exactly it's okay to go off on a rant...) :(

[Naudran Grimnir]

Don't know if there is an older thread but you can always request a thread in the Structured Discussion Board.

 

Post your request here.

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9971