[Basic] The Circle Mafia - Game over

[Tommyrod]

Plus if Darthe actually is the survivor then I can take his list as the "bizzaro list" ; the people he DOESNT think are mafia so that he can stay under the mafia's radar and just coast to the end. Voting for Hallu is another way of not taking a stance. It shouldn't offend town or mafia.

[_CLOUD]

@Tom: What do you find suspicious about Key?

[Tommyrod]

All my thoughts were in the open, I changed my read on Key being definite mafia through the course of reading. Lowered to potential mafia. She's got a lot of WIM at least. I'll talk more about it later. Going to work now.

[keyholder21]

 

 Des you need to step your game up if you're town, this looks completely bonkers stupid to me and I am reading it for the first time

 

If I stepped up my game anymore the maf team would just whine about the game being imbalanced cause I wasn't scum with them

 

 

 

If stepping out has no bearing on alignment...why not vote Golden's replacement? It seems like you're concerned with how you are viewed and I'm getting a scum vibe here.

Wow, are you serious with this?

 

Stepping out doesn't matter, but PLAY does.  I am not going to vote Krak based on his predecessor's play.  

 

You also thought Golden was scummy and voted him, so where is your vote on Krak?    Oh, that's right.  You said:

 

 

Was suspicious of Golden...but as he's been replaced will allow Krak to speak. Krak please participate!

 

 

Hypocrite.

 

Also, I am doing an ISO on you because darthe specifically ASKED me for thoughts on you and rather than jumping at something just because of a few posts (which bit me earlier in the game), I wanted to look at all your posts.

 

For your reference:

 

 

Back to the fun?

 

Hey Key, I think you're town. What did you think of Kaylees reactions in the last few pages? I found them to be poor and my forming rhoughts on her are becoming quickly escalated by how universally ignored those reactions are.

 

 

 

!!!! Noice! Found a major scumtell! (emphasis mine btw)

 

Starting off any defending post with "Wow, are you serious of this?" is one of the strongest scumtells in the book.

 

Obvious scum here, people!!!

 

My guess for scum:  des, dice, and now possibly kay.  Still have to go back and look at people.  Got busy at work this morning.

 

And my guess is out of that group Dice is the teammate you felt obligated to add. Easy guess tbh, since I know I'm town

 

Yeah, I argued against it because of this post:

 

GE stepping out of the game makes me feel he was Town, were he scum, he would have had his scummates calming him down in the QT. Same with Aid, so that being said, for now I feel alright about Krak and Tom. I know I'm Town, so there's three Town leans right there for me.

 

 

 

He should not be auto cleared because he stepped out.

 

Okay, I'll go through your post on me then and comment.

 

Ishy never said he was auto-cleared... twist words more please?

 

Ishy responded and said he never said auto-cleared, but that he felt GE was town. Key word there being "felt", as in a feeling, not a sure as stone strike it in the earth autoclear.

 

And then Key responded by saying "yeah, that doesn't autoclear him"

 

*eyebrow ridge pinch*

 

 

Bold:  I didn't know incredulity is strictly something only scum can do.  

 

 

 

How can you say that I wouldn't know enough to say definitively? I have played several games with Kaylee. Some as Town together and another where I was scum and her Town. I would say I am fairly familiar with her play. Also don't like how you are stating that you could vote either me or Ishy. Looks like you're seeing which might gain traction first so you can park your vote there.

 

Eh, I don't remember Kaylee playing that many games recently, and I know you're still fairly new.

 

As for bolded- seriously? You serious with that line? 

 

So anyone who ever fos'es more than one person in a post is suspect? That's a complete line of garbage, that reasoning there. Am I already voting you this game?

 

 

 

Emphasis mine.  Does this mean you're my teammate? 

 

Underlined:  Like I explained after that, I don't think that matters that Ishy should auto clear him for it. I never said that he was autoclearing GE for everyone.  I don't see what the big deal is about this exchange.  

[keyholder21]

*matters so much.  

[_CLOUD]

All my thoughts were in the open, I changed my read on Key being definite mafia through the course of reading. Lowered to potential mafia. She's got a lot of WIM at least. I'll talk more about it later. Going to work now.

 

What does WIM stand for?

[Tommyrod]

WIM is "win it more" -- the idea that people trying really hard are more likely to be town.

[keyholder21]

Holy lord this is 40 pages on Word. Several posts on Des ISO coming up.

Des ISO (part 1)

 

 

 

My point to you was before she made that point, three may be something to it, maybe not.

 

Your vote was about self preservation, not her being afraid of making a mistake. One's about her looking bad (mistake) yours about her wanting to stay alive.

 

I agree with Cloud about this, those pretty much ARE the same things in this circumstance. You backpedal away from this later on, but you trying to weasel your way between words here is highly suspect to me.

I agree with this. I think it’s semantics.

 

 

no wonder she is worried about mistakes lol that woulda scared the beelzebub outta me first game or 2.

 

Cloud your vote stands out cause its the third vote she has recieved already. a joke vote from me, GND and then you.

 

I don't count my votes because I don't care how my play comes across. It's about time that this game gets started.

 

Tbh, I actually think this stands out, but for diff reasons. I think Cloud was intentionally trying to drop a "towntell" here. I believe a townie shouldn't be as concerned with how they are perceived as scum are, however that being said you obviously have to be somewhat aware, otherwise you might not get much support when you case someone or something.

 

Anyways, him dropping this out there piques my interest.

I don’t actually agree with the bold, personally. I think if you want to win the game, you care, no matter what side you’re on.

 

 

I was only pressuring her for something that stood out to me. It was also the first game related thing that I noticed and I thought it was a good opportunity to start the game and go into serious mode.

 

Don't you agree that my action falls into "going after something that might get us nowhere" and "Letting things slide and ignoring possible leads/connections no matter how small gets us nowhere"?

Very possibly that's why I questioned you and didn't jump to a quick vote on you. I like to be sure ite at least talk things out before placing a vote. Why? Because it leads to more information later in the game.

 

Very possibly? Either it is or it isn't. Kaylee looking like scum here. If anything, nudging (questioning someone or commenting on their "scumminess" but not voting looks scummier to me than just voting outright. Votes often prompt discussion, whereas nudging allows scum to look like they're involved in the game without having to clearly come down on one side of an issue.

I agree with him here.

 

 

 

 

Hello Luci! So wonderful to see you again. I look forward to our match. In response to your queries I will be happy to explain my reasoning. However, doing so requires a bit of history.

First you should know that Ishy and I go back to my first game where we were mafia together. For some reason we have always been pretty dead on with reading one another, probably due in large part to that.

 

Second, reading people is not only my hobby but also is a large part of my professional and academic life. In the time that I have played with these (and other) fine folk I have learned that some things are fairly universal weaknesses. One of my favorites to use is the disoriented and fractured composure of someone who is just settling into a game, attempting to start things for themselves and attempting to reconcile their role PM. Thus, for me, the smallest hints in tone and phrasing in a persons first few posts are vulnerable to their true intentions and allow me to gain a rapid insight into their motivations. While not always effective this has provided rather good results so far. Allow me to show what I saw and how I analyzed it.

First note that all that Ishy has done was place a vote here. One with a period at the end of it, probably not even intended but rather a tic of proper punctuation stating that he does this with resolution. This is, for him, an obvious thing to do based on his relationship with Key. He didn't attempt to joke about it or play around, he simply did as he always does. We can consider this a safe and null investment.

 

More to follow.

 

 

 

Here we get a bit of playful banter. He is relaxed, passive. He is keeping things simple and not trying to blend in.

 

And then we see a redundant example of this. What is shown here can better be explained as meta in hypermode. This is not a player stepping into a role or position. This isn't someone who intends much of anything. He has no need to start and thus no concern for presence or performance. Now, the question of what about this makes him town? Nothing. It simply makes him less lilely to be mafia as compared to people who fail to do these things. Since I speak definitively in mafia and my goal for the day is to narrow my list of suspects to increase my chances of finding mafia, even if superficial in nature, what you get from my ascertained tells is "Ishy is obv town" which helps me watch him react to it, see what others do in response to such an early concrete statement, and even has some truth behind it to my eyes.

 

Now, normally I don't bother explaining things like this because it is disbelieved and because I don't want people to watch themselves more from the get-go but today I did because A) you're kind and I like you and B) people assumed I wouldn't.

 

What is Mat Cuathons #1 rule of warfare?

 

 

 

 

 

^Darthe's psych-speak

 

Sheesh. No wonder you normally don't say why you think someone is town

 

What a bunch of jargon. I completely believe that YOU believe that kind of stuff, but wow lol. Still you tho Darthe.

 

Buddying up to darthe? Looking back on it, I thought it was completely ridiculous BS that darthe just trotted out as an ‘explanation’ because he thought it was ridiculous of Luci to ask for reads early on D1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[keyholder21]

Des ISO (part 2)

 

 

 

Lol at Darthe..your explanation on your day 1 reads. Very funny.

 

No explain your vote on me.

 

/sits back in chair, arms crossed.

 

And anyone voting Darthe on Day 1 is pretty silly. He never gets past day 2 without a cop viewing anyway. Waste of time.

Imma laugh SOOOOO hard if it turns out Darthe is a GF and you tried to help get him viewed

 

 

#stickingyourneckoutforDarthenotverysmurt

 

There isn’t a GF possibility in the game. Down below, when peace questions him he admits that he forgot it was open setup. Could be scum skimming for what looks ‘scummy’ or trying to make peace and darthe look bad, could be a townie who literally forgot. Worth remembering.

Anyways. Unvote, Vote Kaylee. Came out a bit aggressive for her, and had a painful looking backtrack about her fos on Cloud.

I agree about the aggressiveness; even Kaylee does.

 

Ah yeah, forgot it was open setup. I retract that statement. I do NOT retract the laughie face.

 

Really sad that there's only one person with more than one vote on them at this point. We need more voting activity people.

Fair point.

 

I'm not even in this game but I'm supposed to be voting Key.

 

Wait, I am?

 

Unvote, Vote Key

 

No explanation. Probably because of my vote on Kaylee, but didn’t say it. Also worth noting, imo, that this is after Ishy’s vote on me and then there were several votes for other people inbetween. Perhaps a scummate trying to get my train rolling again? Null tell, imo, since my vote at that particular juncture does seem super sketch and I’m still catching flack for it.

 

Don't like the emo martyr play from Kaylee but it does seem kinda genuine.

Oh wait, here he likes Kaylee and says she seems genuine.

 

AJ, your vote on me is poopie once again. You don't really explain why my votes "stand out". Once again I suspect you might be scum.

 

I switched to Key cause Kaylee's reactions, while containing a bit of AtE, didn't seem that bad to me. Key was the next highest train, I figured I'd bandwagon to get some reactions from her as well.

 

Don't really remember anything else I needed/wanted to comment on. Still need more activity in general.

When asked for an explanation, he provides it. Suspects AJ (who flipped town) might be scum. Null tell. Could be just a townie attacking another townie since he obv doesn’t know alignment.

Bold: Lie. I had one vote on me, just like everyone else at the time except for Kaylee.

I don't know if you noticed this about me, but I tend to be active with my vote, especially on day 1. Most are too hesitant with their vote early on, I try to compensate.

Vote on Snow was semi-jokey. Trying to get the game started somewhat. Vote on Kaylee was me thinking she was off, seemed overaggressive for her. Vote on Key was both for reactions and to keep the gameplay going.

More answering to AJ. This is fine, to me. No contradictions that I can see, so null to town tell here.

 

Ishy and AJ both defending Kaylee like this makes me nervous. Ishy not as much, although he had an earlier post I didn't like; he knows Kay's meta enough to make that determination (tho I disagree about his saying she always liked getting the game started). AJ doesn't really know enough to say yet, and in general his defense of her just strikes me as off. Thinking of switching to either.

This is the first post where upon reread, I start to think Ishy and des might be on a team together. Scumtell for teammates, imo, to throw out a post where you cast some suspicion on a teammate, but then provide some reasoning for why that suspicion could be voided since you don’t want that person to actually look bad.

Thinking of switching to either but chooses the townie. Slight scum read.

 

Cloud, Peace, Key scum team?

This was the post I was referring to of Ishy's, this came after Darthe "asked" if people were still voting Kaylee. Cloud, Peace, and Key were the only ones voting Kay at the time.

 

Ishy is experienced enough to know how unlikely it would be that a whole train on someone day 1 would consist solely if mafia. Seems like fake scumhunting to me

 

Again, this reads to me like making a scummate look bad, but for a reason that could easily be voided.

IMO, Des is an experienced enough player to read this as the joke that it fairly clearly was.

And oh yeah- I remember AJ also asking about where Kay backtracked- it was on her fos of Cloud, where she quibbled over the difference between two things that were the same, and later admitted so. I think she even admitted it was backtracking, can't remember.

 

 

Ishy and AJ both defending Kaylee like this makes me nervous. Ishy not as much, although he had an earlier post I didn't like; he knows Kay's meta enough to make that determination (tho I disagree about his saying she always liked getting the game started). AJ doesn't really know enough to say yet, and in general his defense of her just strikes me as off. Thinking of switching to either.

Nuff said.

 

Yeahhhhh AJ is trying to play this all "too cool for school".

 

Obvious scum.

 

Unvote, Vote AJ

 

This is the game where we just have to bold, right?

 

“Obvious scum” didn’t work out well.

 

 

 

[keyholder21]

des ISO (part 3)

 

 

How can you say that I wouldn't know enough to say definitively? I have played several games with Kaylee. Some as Town together and another where I was scum and her Town. I would say I am fairly familiar with her play. Also don't like how you are stating that you could vote either me or Ishy. Looks like you're seeing which might gain traction first so you can park your vote there.

 

Eh, I don't remember Kaylee playing that many games recently, and I know you're still fairly new.

 

As for bolded- seriously? You serious with that line?

 

So anyone who ever fos'es more than one person in a post is suspect? That's a complete line of garbage, that reasoning there. Am I already voting you this game?

I agree with questioning AJ; des would know more about how long someone has been around than I would.

I get the incredulity and UNLIKE des, I don’t think of it as a scumtell.

I agree with the last few sentences. Null to town read from this post.

 

Also I came out aggressive because I had the opportunity to be active and wanted to go after anything that might go somewhere as I've said before.

 

Here's where she herself essentially admits that she came out more aggressive than she usually does. Otherwise, why explain why she came out aggressively this game? If this was normal for her level of aggressiveness, don't you think she wouldn't have explained why like this?

 

So yes, FOS @ Ishy and AJ for trying to meta-defend her and say she wasn't that aggressive.

While I kind of agree with the reasoning for the FOS, imo it’s worth noting that it could be another semi-distancing post.

 

From Cloud: I find it scummy that you later made a distinction about self-preservation and her being afraid to make a mistake so that you could justify your initial FoS on me and your agreement with Key.

 

No, I was explaining my original thoughts to you about why I called you out. Key then made a comment about Aidanna that seemed like it could be something. It had nothing to do with justifying my FoS. As I said to Key, I'm pointing out anything that could be something.

 

First paragraph is from Cloud, second paragraph is Kaylee's. In case someone doesn't remember, they were talking about Aidanna's post about worrying about getting (mod)killed. Cloud said she seemed like she was too concerned with self-preservation. Kaylee fos'd him for that. Key then came in pretty much said the same thing as Cloud, that Aidanna seemed too concerned with trying to stay alive... and then Kaylee quotes Key and said something along the lines of "Huh, I didnt think about that". Even tho Key said pretty much the same thing as Cloud, Kay fos'd Cloud for it and not Key. This stood out to me early on.

 

Here she explains herself, not a very good defense at that point. I'm thinking now that Kaylee might have just not been paying close attention at the time mebbe.

 

I was only pressuring her for something that stood out to me. It was also the first game related thing that I noticed and I thought it was a good opportunity to start the game and go into serious mode.

 

Don't you agree that my action falls into "going after something that might get us nowhere" and "Letting things slide and ignoring possible leads/connections no matter how small gets us nowhere"?

Very possibly that's why I questioned you and didn't jump to a quick vote on you. I like to be sure ite at least talk things out before placing a vote. Why? Because it leads to more information later in the game.

 

And here's where she backtracks from her fos on Cloud. "Very possibly..." also stood out to me early on, and I mentioned so.

 

What changed my mind about Kaylee's play was that she first said I could be scum after ... AJ I think it was?... asked her for scum reads, and then almost immediately after said she thought I was town. Looks more like sloppy town play to me than scum moves, which wouldn't display such a contradiction so quickly next to a previous post.

I thought her genuine emotion/reactions is what changed your mind. The rest is resolved below, so I’ll comment there.

@AJ: I guess I was mistaken about you asking her for reads, I even said I wasn't sure tho. Point still stands however. You saying she hasn't posted since you joined means she IS paying attention to the thread? Eh? Don't get what you're saying there at all bro.

Questioning AJ. Null tell.

 

 

 

I disagree that Kaylee seemed overaggressive. Besides, I doubt scum would put themselves in the spotlight like that early on.

 

The METAL game by Darthe game me a good insight in Kaylee's game. She was aggressive then, presenting cases and using the NKs as evidence. I thought she was scum that game because of it and never fully trusted her, which bit me in the @$$ later because we lost. I like her game now.

 

Here's you saying she wasn't being abnormally aggressive for her.

 

 

Kay likes to get the game started and out of the joke phase. I admire that. The first person to make that move always catches heat. I'm not going to penalize her over that.

 

And here's Ishy pretty much agreeing with you. Don't like either post.

 

And dude. Come on. Gonna start calling you Bill Clinton with your wordplay. She was explaining why she came out more aggressive. Wordtwist more, please.

Going pretty hard after AJ, though I agree with why he’s questioning him. Back to possible town.

 

 

 

No.

 

I'm saying that you mixing me up with whomever else (I haven't seen anyone ask Kaylee specifically for reads) means that you aren't paying attention, which is exactly what you accuse her of.

 

 

Dude you BETTER end up being scum for making me go back and fetch so many quotes for you.

 

Bold: How I feel about des right now .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[keyholder21]

ah sh-t. You can ignore that one if you want. Here it is in spoiler:

 

 

 

 

 

How can you say that I wouldn't know enough to say definitively? I have played several games with Kaylee. Some as Town together and another where I was scum and her Town. I would say I am fairly familiar with her play. Also don't like how you are stating that you could vote either me or Ishy. Looks like you're seeing which might gain traction first so you can park your vote there.

 

Eh, I don't remember Kaylee playing that many games recently, and I know you're still fairly new.

 

As for bolded- seriously? You serious with that line?

 

So anyone who ever fos'es more than one person in a post is suspect? That's a complete line of garbage, that reasoning there. Am I already voting you this game?

I agree with questioning AJ; des would know more about how long someone has been around than I would.

I get the incredulity and UNLIKE des, I don’t think of it as a scumtell.

I agree with the last few sentences. Null to town read from this post.

 

Also I came out aggressive because I had the opportunity to be active and wanted to go after anything that might go somewhere as I've said before.

 

Here's where she herself essentially admits that she came out more aggressive than she usually does. Otherwise, why explain why she came out aggressively this game? If this was normal for her level of aggressiveness, don't you think she wouldn't have explained why like this?

 

So yes, FOS @ Ishy and AJ for trying to meta-defend her and say she wasn't that aggressive.

While I kind of agree with the reasoning for the FOS, imo it’s worth noting that it could be another semi-distancing post.

 

From Cloud: I find it scummy that you later made a distinction about self-preservation and her being afraid to make a mistake so that you could justify your initial FoS on me and your agreement with Key.

 

No, I was explaining my original thoughts to you about why I called you out. Key then made a comment about Aidanna that seemed like it could be something. It had nothing to do with justifying my FoS. As I said to Key, I'm pointing out anything that could be something.

 

First paragraph is from Cloud, second paragraph is Kaylee's. In case someone doesn't remember, they were talking about Aidanna's post about worrying about getting (mod)killed. Cloud said she seemed like she was too concerned with self-preservation. Kaylee fos'd him for that. Key then came in pretty much said the same thing as Cloud, that Aidanna seemed too concerned with trying to stay alive... and then Kaylee quotes Key and said something along the lines of "Huh, I didnt think about that". Even tho Key said pretty much the same thing as Cloud, Kay fos'd Cloud for it and not Key. This stood out to me early on.

 

Here she explains herself, not a very good defense at that point. I'm thinking now that Kaylee might have just not been paying close attention at the time mebbe.

 

I was only pressuring her for something that stood out to me. It was also the first game related thing that I noticed and I thought it was a good opportunity to start the game and go into serious mode.

 

Don't you agree that my action falls into "going after something that might get us nowhere" and "Letting things slide and ignoring possible leads/connections no matter how small gets us nowhere"?

Very possibly that's why I questioned you and didn't jump to a quick vote on you. I like to be sure ite at least talk things out before placing a vote. Why? Because it leads to more information later in the game.

 

And here's where she backtracks from her fos on Cloud. "Very possibly..." also stood out to me early on, and I mentioned so.

 

What changed my mind about Kaylee's play was that she first said I could be scum after ... AJ I think it was?... asked her for scum reads, and then almost immediately after said she thought I was town. Looks more like sloppy town play to me than scum moves, which wouldn't display such a contradiction so quickly next to a previous post.

I thought her genuine emotion/reactions is what changed your mind. The rest is resolved below, so I’ll comment there.

@AJ: I guess I was mistaken about you asking her for reads, I even said I wasn't sure tho. Point still stands however. You saying she hasn't posted since you joined means she IS paying attention to the thread? Eh? Don't get what you're saying there at all bro.

Questioning AJ. Null tell.

 

 

 

I disagree that Kaylee seemed overaggressive. Besides, I doubt scum would put themselves in the spotlight like that early on.

 

The METAL game by Darthe game me a good insight in Kaylee's game. She was aggressive then, presenting cases and using the NKs as evidence. I thought she was scum that game because of it and never fully trusted her, which bit me in the @$$ later because we lost. I like her game now.

 

Here's you saying she wasn't being abnormally aggressive for her.

 

 

Kay likes to get the game started and out of the joke phase. I admire that. The first person to make that move always catches heat. I'm not going to penalize her over that.

 

And here's Ishy pretty much agreeing with you. Don't like either post.

 

And dude. Come on. Gonna start calling you Bill Clinton with your wordplay. She was explaining why she came out more aggressive. Wordtwist more, please.

Going pretty hard after AJ, though I agree with why he’s questioning him. Back to possible town.

 

 

 

No.

 

I'm saying that you mixing me up with whomever else (I haven't seen anyone ask Kaylee specifically for reads) means that you aren't paying attention, which is exactly what you accuse her of.

 

 

Dude you BETTER end up being scum for making me go back and fetch so many quotes for you.

 

Bold: How I feel about des right now .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[keyholder21]

Des iso (part 4)

 

 

 

 

So Kaylee do you have any scum or town reads?

 

BOOM. Guess it was Cloud, my bad.

 

 

Des:Very possibly? Either it is or it isn't.

 

Yes and I can't possibly know his alignment so I don't know if it is the same or not. In fact looking back his "Don't you agree that my action falls into "going after something that might get us nowhere" and "Letting things slide and ignoring possible leads/connections no matter how small gets us nowhere"?

 

Stands out. Like he's saying see I'm doing the same as you I am in your side.

 

I could be wrong, but it's what I feel .

 

Vote Cloud

 

 

 

Ninja'd by Cloud . It's early for me to say. I don't trust anyone to start out...still working in my reads.

 

I actually did misread however, so I kinda feel stupid now. I thought when she said my name she was answering Cloud about scum reads... but right after she said she got ninjad. Anyways, to continue showing you my original line of thought (I might have to go back on my town read of Kaylee now)

Could be a genuine oops. Owns up to mistake. Looking more town now.

 

 

Glad I remembered to do this:

 

Message to all games: I'm now off work for 4 days, so I might be a little less active than normal, but will be back at work monday night.

 

This was the only thing I posted after.

 

 

Despo appears to be scum hunting ship I'm getting a town vibe from him.

 

And then here was Kaylee's next post. In my mind, she had said I could be scum when Cloud asked for reads, and then soon after she said I seemed town. Seemed more like she was going back through and actually reading again for reads, instead of just fabricating some, since she seemingly went back on a scum read of me to say town.

 

Now that I caught the part about her being ninja'd however, apparently the only read she could come up with was me looking town... This makes me feel not good about her again.

 

Still, don't like you AJ. The way you're defending her, twisting words around... the only difference is now instead of me thinking you wer buddying a townie, I think you were defending a teammate.

 

Is there still a train on Kaylee? Could go for either her or AJ atm.

 

Ooooooh AJ do you think I'm seeing which lynch will get more traction? Oh noes, I am so caught redhanded!!!

 

Wavers again on Kay.

 

Also most of you boys that play on here have such big egos.

 

 

 

That quote is garbage btw.

 

I literally say there that I don't find Kay being overly aggressive because I saw her play a similar way in a game where SHE WAS TOWN.

 

Lame.

 

 

 

I never said that she wasn't that aggressive as you put it.

 

How would you like your crow served, monsieur?

 

 

And it's fine to meta-defend her, I just don't find it to be true. I think Kaylee DID start off this game way more aggressive than I'm used to seeing her start off games. Usually she coasts for a while. She is VURRRY good at endgame however. I've seen her win a few games for town with expert play at endgame.

Underlined: But he FOS’d Ishy and AJ earlier for doing so.

 

 

 

WTL Des and AJ. Just because they talk a lot without saying anything.

 

 

And you've said almost nothing in the way of gameplay this game. WTL you pretty much any game. Imma call you Tim "The Toolman" Taylor's sidekick, cause you're acting like a toolbag

I don’t know what WTL means. The context isn’t really helping me either. I do get the prodding at darthe, though.

 

 

This game's activity got really blah but I do think were at least on the right course for a lynch. AJ asking a Survivor to come forward and claim seems antitown on many levels. Mostly for distracting town however.

I thought we were doing better with activity by this point, actually.

Prods AJ’s lynch along.

 

 

Just finished my reread... found something funny out. @Mish: I never voted AJ... but you have me listed 1st on his train in the VC. I voted Kay, which you counted, then unvoted and voted Key... I might have to grab quotes to show what I mean. Funny thing tho, heh. We actually weren't supposed to be able to secure a lynch yesterday. I would have voted him had my name not already been on the train, but still funny.

 

Also funny that some who were so ready to analyze my votes and question me for them, yet never asked why I was voting AJ or where that came from. Hmmm.

 

Anyways, lot of muddled stuff during my reread, but Darthe... is scum this game. Could be survivor. Not town, definitely not. Dude hasn't really contributed the entire game.

 

Vote Darthe.

Bold: First sentence. I am SO confused by this. What do you mean “we actually weren’t supposed to be able to secure a lynch yesterday”?

Second sentence – easy thing to say as scum, but was already going after him, so null to town feeling on that.

Last sentence of bold – Stupid. Way to try and make others look bad without naming any particular names. Also, as you admit to later, you already were voting AJ.

I understand the want for darthe to step it up and the vote. Because that’s generally how des rolls – accuse and vote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[keyholder21]

frig. Fixed that one too:

 

Part 4 again correctly:

 

 

 

 

So Kaylee do you have any scum or town reads?

BOOM. Guess it was Cloud, my bad.

 

 

Des:Very possibly? Either it is or it isn't.

 

Yes and I can't possibly know his alignment so I don't know if it is the same or not. In fact looking back his "Don't you agree that my action falls into "going after something that might get us nowhere" and "Letting things slide and ignoring possible leads/connections no matter how small gets us nowhere"?

 

Stands out. Like he's saying see I'm doing the same as you I am in your side.

 

I could be wrong, but it's what I feel .

 

Vote Cloud

 

Ninja'd by Cloud . It's early for me to say. I don't trust anyone to start out...still working in my reads.

I actually did misread however, so I kinda feel stupid now. I thought when she said my name she was answering Cloud about scum reads... but right after she said she got ninjad. Anyways, to continue showing you my original line of thought (I might have to go back on my town read of Kaylee now)

 

Could be a genuine oops. Owns up to mistake. Looking more town now.

 

Despo appears to be scum hunting ship I'm getting a town vibe from him.

And then here was Kaylee's next post. In my mind, she had said I could be scum when Cloud asked for reads, and then soon after she said I seemed town. Seemed more like she was going back through and actually reading again for reads, instead of just fabricating some, since she seemingly went back on a scum read of me to say town.

 

Now that I caught the part about her being ninja'd however, apparently the only read she could come up with was me looking town... This makes me feel not good about her again.

 

Still, don't like you AJ. The way you're defending her, twisting words around... the only difference is now instead of me thinking you wer buddying a townie, I think you were defending a teammate.

 

Is there still a train on Kaylee? Could go for either her or AJ atm.

 

Ooooooh AJ do you think I'm seeing which lynch will get more traction? Oh noes, I am so caught redhanded!!!

 

 

Wavers again on Kay.

 

Also most of you boys that play on here have such big egos.

 

 

That quote is garbage btw.

 

I literally say there that I don't find Kay being overly aggressive because I saw her play a similar way in a game where SHE WAS TOWN.

 

Lame.

 

I never said that she wasn't that aggressive as you put it.

How would you like your crow served, monsieur?

 

 

And it's fine to meta-defend her, I just don't find it to be true. I think Kaylee DID start off this game way more aggressive than I'm used to seeing her start off games. Usually she coasts for a while. She is VURRRY good at endgame however. I've seen her win a few games for town with expert play at endgame.

 

Underlined: But he FOS’d Ishy and AJ earlier for doing so.

 

 

WTL Des and AJ. Just because they talk a lot without saying anything.

 

And you've said almost nothing in the way of gameplay this game. WTL you pretty much any game. Imma call you Tim "The Toolman" Taylor's sidekick, cause you're acting like a toolbag

 

I don’t know what WTL means. The context isn’t really helping me either. I do get the prodding at darthe, though.

This game's activity got really blah but I do think were at least on the right course for a lynch. AJ asking a Survivor to come forward and claim seems antitown on many levels. Mostly for distracting town however.

I thought we were doing better with activity by this point, actually.

Prods AJ’s lynch along.

 

Just finished my reread... found something funny out. @Mish: I never voted AJ... but you have me listed 1st on his train in the VC. I voted Kay, which you counted, then unvoted and voted Key... I might have to grab quotes to show what I mean. Funny thing tho, heh. We actually weren't supposed to be able to secure a lynch yesterday. I would have voted him had my name not already been on the train, but still funny.

 

Also funny that some who were so ready to analyze my votes and question me for them, yet never asked why I was voting AJ or where that came from. Hmmm.

 

Anyways, lot of muddled stuff during my reread, but Darthe... is scum this game. Could be survivor. Not town, definitely not. Dude hasn't really contributed the entire game.

 

Vote Darthe.

Bold: First sentence. I am SO confused by this. What do you mean “we actually weren’t supposed to be able to secure a lynch yesterday”?

Second sentence – easy thing to say as scum, but was already going after him, so null to town feeling on that.

Last sentence of bold – Stupid. Way to try and make others look bad without naming any particular names. Also, as you admit to later, you already were voting AJ.

I understand the want for darthe to step it up and the vote. Because that’s generally how des rolls – accuse and vote.

 

 

 

Ishy and AJ both defending Kaylee like this makes me nervous. Ishy not as much, although he had an earlier post I didn't like; he knows Kay's meta enough to make that determination (tho I disagree about his saying she always liked getting the game started). AJ doesn't really know enough to say yet, and in general his defense of her just strikes me as off. Thinking of switching to either.

Nuff said.

 

Yeahhhhh AJ is trying to play this all "too cool for school".

 

Obvious scum.

 

Unvote, Vote AJ

 

This is the game where we just have to bold, right?

 

Never mind, I found it, I'm a moron. Prob in too many games at once as well

 

Vote on Darthe stands tho.

 

Admits mistake. This post generally makes me feel good about him, although could have been teammates prodding him with a need to clear this up because it would make him look bad.

 

**Edited out his quotes on darthe because this thing is already long enough. I will go back and get them if asked. ** Because I did that, I lost the quote box, but the following is what des said. I can go back and find the quote if necessary:

Half of those posts barely qualify as gameplay posts. Dude shows no interest whatsoever in trying to lynch scum. Let's make it easy for him.

 

Here we go lynch Darthe, here we go!

I’ll comment on darthe when I do an ISO on him next. It’s true that darthe has shown barely any interest in the game, so this is null to town for me.

 

 

[keyholder21]

des iso (part 5):

 

 

 

 

GE stepping out of the game makes me feel he was Town, were he scum, he would have had his scummates calming him down in the QT. Same with Aid, so that being said, for now I feel alright about Krak and Tom. I know I'm Town, so there's three Town leans right there for me.

 

The whole Kay-Key-Luci lovefest feels staged to me. I don't think all three are scum, but think two of the three are. Not sure which two, but Key has been my strongest scum read since D1 and nothing has changed that so far. Think one of Luci-Kay are scum number two.

 

Scum number three for me is between Cloud-Darthe. Total gut feeling, but starting to think Darthes "Ishy is obv Town" manuever is completely to earn cred. And Cloud's tunneling on Kay reads as distancing to me. Could go with either of the two.

 

So to conclude:

 

Key

Kay-Luci

Darthe-Cloud

 

We have until Friday night, so I'm in no hurry. Will wait to see others chime in.

I think I love you this game Ishy

 

I pretty much agree with everything you say here. One point I would disagree with is what Key said, tbh I think scum tend to ask for replacement more. But usually that's cause they went inactive, not emo. So in this instance, I still kinda agree with you. Not sure if I'm ready to clear either Tom or Krak as town yet, but I love the points you make against the players you did.

 

Key is pretty high on my scumdar as well, and I find it odd that Key and Kay went at eachother a bit day 1, yet for a while now Kay has been following along a LOT with stuff Key says. Something fishy there. Don't really see the Luci connection to them tho tbh. In her place I would say Dice mebbe, both Key and Dice have lobbed some fos's here and there at eachother without ever looking like they planned on voting the other.

 

Here’s where I go back to thinking des is scum. This pings me HARDCORE.

“I disagree with you, but still kind of agree with you”

“Not sure if I'm ready to clear either Tom or Krak as town yet, but I love the points you make against the players you did”

More ways to possibly make a teammate looks scummy, but not really.

Mostly, though, it pings me because after Ishy’s post I have a post asking for evidence of the kay-key-luci lovefest and des does NOT go back and retrieve it. I have NEVER known des to give up an opportunity to prove someone wrong/make someone look bad for something they have done earlier on thread.

Underlined: I already responded to this on thread. -- Twisty BS. You can FOS people without having to vote them on the spot. You can also think someone is scummy, but vote for who you think is scummier. Just because I said FOS and voted for Golden does not mean that I didn't think dice was scummy.

 

And egads we need more voting activity!

 

Here, I'll start things off:

 

Unvote, Vote Key

Null tell. He’s said he’s suspicious of me anyway.

 

 

@darthe & Ishy - Saying there is no need for insults is hardly "taking it to heart" or "getting my panties in a wad", if you're referring to me. Even if you're not, generally insulting play NOT people is how things go on DM. If he's entitled to insults, then others are entitled to voice their dislike of those insults. He's a big boy, I'm sure he can take someone saying they didn't like he was rude. Or not, as the case may be. Making it out like those people who voiced their dislike of insults should be ashamed is quite ridiculous.

 

 

I'll have to give more game thoughts later. Headed home now and on baby duty (big surprise, I know).

This also seemed like - Buzzword Alert! - a bit overdefensive here, like Key was trying to act indignant about the issue.

 

Personally while I found GE to be a tad aggressive, I never found what he was saying to be rude or anything. I think a few peeps went a bit overboard in admonishing him for his play

 

I also responded to this on thread:

 

This also seemed like - Buzzword Alert! - a bit overdefensive here, like Key was trying to act indignant about the issue.

Personally while I found GE to be a tad aggressive, I never found what he was saying to be rude or anything. I think a few peeps went a bit overboard in admonishing him for his play

Bold: You're going to read it how you want to see it. It was not meant indignantly, more like commenting that darthe and Ishy are being hypocritical, so it's silly of them to even comment on the matter. If throwing insults is acceptable, then people saying they don't like those insults should also be acceptable.

 

Underlined: Well, that's you. Hence why you didn't comment on thinking it was rude. People think differently. While I had absolutely no problem with his play, it was his comment about the people being tedious that I thought was unnecessary and rude. Tedious has negative implications every time it's used, so yes, it sounds like an insult. Insult the play, not the person, imo. We're all just trying to have a good time.

 

 

I agreed with what Key pointed out about Golden. That's it for this day phase.

Bad post. You get called out for following Key, so solidify your stance in following her? Not good at all.

 

I read it more like she was trying to say she hasn’t done much today. But, meh, I can see the argument. Could also be scum trying to make someone look bad.

 

Anyone summarizing for you would give their own leanings on everything. Please don't be lazy andreread, shouldn't take that long.

Totally understand this feeling, but it’s a null tell. Better for scum and town to have someone read and present their own thoughts.

 

 

Tom: I did a breakdown of a few players. Read that and also look art those not listed.

Lol funny. I got ninja'd, but yeahhhhh. Telling a replacement player to look at your reads list for a summary is just terribad.

 

True, it is bad, but she also tells him to read what’s not there, so meh. I can see both sides of this one, null tell to me.

 

Tommy looks pretty town judging from his catchup posts. Although I don't like him switching his vote off of Key rather prematurely.

 

And btw, I wasn't trying to be a jerk when I told him not to be lazy. I sincerely wanted him to scan through the thread on his own without getting any summaries or opinions from others. This makes it easier to read whether someone in his position had a predisposed slant or lean while they are catching up, and more importantly had he been told to look for certain interactions and exchanges he might have missed others that would have been valuable to point out.

HUGE ping here too. Tommy said he was on page FIVE of the game when he made that vote.

 

^^^ Scum.

 

Although Hallucination DOES need to step it up big time.

 

But Darthe looks like he's trying to cover for his teammate.

Scum lines refers to darthe. So do darthe and Hallu push out dice and kay of those you think are scum?

 

 

key i looked again and owe u an apology golden was on the final train. However you complaining he made AJ the largest train close to deadline doesn't work for me. It was close to deadline someone had to become the largest train. If it had been anyone else would u have complained?

 

vote key

Nice bus vote Dice.

 

I want to go back and look at dice’s posts (on one hand, thank goodness there aren’t as many of his as there are of des’s. On the other hand, he obviously needs to step it up). Not throwing out the possibility that des and dice are on the same team. Des tends to also bus his teammates.

 

 

Des you need to step your game up if you're town, this looks completely bonkers stupid to me and I am reading it for the first time

If I stepped up my game anymore the maf team would just whine about the game being imbalanced cause I wasn't scum with them

 

All you boys that play this game have such high egos.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If stepping out has no bearing on alignment...why not vote Golden's replacement? It seems like you're concerned with how you are viewed and I'm getting a scum vibe here.

Wow, are you serious with this?

 

Stepping out doesn't matter, but PLAY does. I am not going to vote Krak based on his predecessor's play.

 

You also thought Golden was scummy and voted him, so where is your vote on Krak? Oh, that's right. You said:

 

 

 

Was suspicious of Golden...but as he's been replaced will allow Krak to speak. Krak please participate!

 

Hypocrite.

 

Also, I am doing an ISO on you because darthe specifically ASKED me for thoughts on you and rather than jumping at something just because of a few posts (which bit me earlier in the game), I wanted to look at all your posts.

 

For your reference:

 

 

 

Back to the fun?

 

Hey Key, I think you're town. What did you think of Kaylees reactions in the last few pages? I found them to be poor and my forming rhoughts on her are becoming quickly escalated by how universally ignored those reactions are.

 

!!!! Noice! Found a major scumtell! (emphasis mine btw)

 

Starting off any defending post with "Wow, are you serious of this?" is one of the strongest scumtells in the book.

 

Obvious scum here, people!!!

 

What about the rest of what I said, des? No responding to it because it made too much sense?

 

My guess for scum: des, dice, and now possibly kay. Still have to go back and look at people. Got busy at work this morning.

And my guess is out of that group Dice is the teammate you felt obligated to add. Easy guess tbh, since I know I'm town

 

How many people do you think are on the mafia team? Right now, you have me, dice, darthe and hallu. Mish said in OP that there were only 3.

 

 

Darthe seems really disinterested since mid game which is not what I am used to with him

Ishi is floating pretty heavy as well

 

You guys aren't making this game easier :/

Actually, this is Ishy at his finest (no offense Ishy). He normally doesn't have a ton of lengthy scumhunting type posts. Plays by intuition, ignores all the bells and whistles. He's like The Who's Tommy of DM Mafia.

 

Darthe otoh has acted this disinterested in all his games lately. Doesn't give him a free pass in this one however.

 

Idk about finest, but I agree that he usually doesn’t post WoTs.

Agree on darthe.

 

 

Screw finishing the read before I place a vote. I'm on page 20.

 

 

vote dice

Sorry Krak, but Tommy's catchup posts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your catchup posts.

 

True.

 

 

[keyholder21]

des iso (part 6):

 

 

 

 

I find it funny that every one is commenting on my Dice comment except Dice himself.

Is everyone commenting on that? I don't remember commenting on that. I could give two flips about that post.

 

 

 

 

Hmmm. Post your current reads list of each player, with explanations for each.

I don't have to, I made my decision. You pretty much admitted to being scum

 

 

 

Wow, is that supposed to make me feel bad or panic or something? Nothing for me to panic about, if you lynch me you''ll be lynching another townie, Good luck with that.

Why do you assume I'm town?

 

 

He was clearly showing that you might have known him to be town, which would likely make you scum. He wasn't admitting to being scum.

 

Not sure if this is a newbie mistake or a OMGUS vote (wasn't Tommy voting Luci at the time?)

 

Or he could have been saying that to show her you shouldn’t believe everything someone says.

 

 

I was joking with Dice, you all jumped down my throat for it.

Wow. You seem REALLY defensive about that post. "You all"? "Jumped down" your "throat"? I think like 2 people commented on it initially iirc.

 

True, she does seem very defensive.

 

 

Right now you all are scum to me. I go back to my original statement.

 

Everyone is guilty.

There's a player in SG who says something like this everytime they end up being mafia. Leaning scum on you from these last few posts Luci.

 

Ok, let’s add Luci to that list of people you think are my scummates. Now there’s me, dice, darthe, hallu, and Luci.

 

 

So who am I lynching and why?

Yourself, and to save us the trouble.

 

^ I lol’d.

 

 

Oh, I get it. I thought the search for posts thing showed only this thread but it was a post he made in a different game. SORRY, NOT ADMISSIBLE EVIDENCE

 

The rest stands though

Protip: a great way to iso here at DM is to go to the thread you want to search through, click on the magnifying glass in the top right corner (on full site, not mobile) and leave the field blank btw. On the next page, put the person's name you want to iso in the "Find Author" field, it has to be exact however. Then you also prob wanna list then as posts, not topic lists. Then hit submit and BOOM, tough acting tenactin a great iso method.

 

Good to know about the iso. Glad you told him, even though I asked for it earlier . Also, you haven’t given me a or face yet. Makes me sad.

 

Scum reads: Key (obvious), Dice, Cloud, Luci

 

Feels like Cloud hasn't posted in a while btw. Cloud, what are your thoughts on all the players still alive?

No longer darthe and hallu? That’s also four.

I agree that Cloud should post more.

 

 

 

TL;DR (I don’t blame you, though you should read it)

 

I had a lot of null reads, and some reads that looked town to me as well. Personally, though, I can’t ignore the major pings that stood out to me. Des is a good player. I know he's bound to have posts that sound townie when he's scum. Unfortunately, they happen to be in the middle of the ISO so you actually have to read what I said in order to find them. Part 5 is where most of them are. I can separate them out if anyone wants. Mostly it’s his interactions with Ishy, and des not looking back for the ‘lovefest’ posts. I have NEVER known des to give up an opportunity to prove someone wrong/make someone look bad for something they have done earlier on thread. Additionally, he says he doesn’t like Tommy removing his vote off me prematurely when Tommy had said he was on page FIVE when he put that vote on.

 

Perhaps it’s because it’s me that I am feeling so strongly about it, but it appears that des and Ishy REALLY want me gone and are working in tandem to see it through.

[Kaylee]

That's plausible

[Kaylee]

By that I mean I see your point

[keyholder21]

sorry for the mistakes when it came to posting the quotes.  I didn't know about the preview posts until I messed up on part 4.  I will make sure to do that from now on. 

 

I will have to get to the darthe ISO later.  Hopefully this afternoon while I'm still at work.  Need to get to grading though, as grades are due by end of work today.

 

For now, I will have to change my reads to ishy and des being scum.  I want to look at dice's posts (somewhat thankful there aren't many) to see if he's scummy or just floating along.  I keep going back and forth on Kay.  Luci, I think is a case of newbie-itis, but I'll look back at her posts again too.  I will try to get to this all this afternoon.

[John E. Kelley]

As you said:

 

TL;DR

[_CLOUD]

That's plausible

So Key is all of a sudden town for you again?

[_CLOUD]

Also Key feel free to just summarize your points. You really don't have to go through so much effort because most people won't read it anyway.

[Kaylee]

I didn't say that. Just that her points against Despo made sense.

[_CLOUD]

What do you think of Ishy?

[Kaylee]

I've said what I think about Ishy, ignore it or skim over it?

[Kaylee]

You don't like having to repeat yourself but you have no problem asking others to do it.

 

I said I didn't trust him and he's on my scum list to sum it up.