A Possible Talent?

[Fiera Taishar]

Okay, so I was reading KoD and I got to the part where Elayne discovers Aviendha has a Talent for knowing what Ter'Angereals do. It brought up a slender, flexible stick of some sort that Avie said brought pain when she touched it. Elayne said Nynaeve had already told them that, etc. which made me think back. I think it was in Tel'aran'rhoid that Nynaeve was looking at Ter'angereals on pedestals or something like that and she touch one and recoiled, saying that it felt like pain. As far as I remember, Elayne didn't get the same reaction when she handled it. So, did Nynaeve touch other things and feel what sensations they were associated with? If yes or no, does that mean that sensing feelings related to Ter'angereals is a Talent of some sort that Nynaeve has, like her weather/event predictions?

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

In TSR, Nynaeve examines the male a'dam from the Panarch's Palace in T'A'R. But this causes all women who can channel to feel the sadness/pain, including Elayne, as I recall.

 

Also, Egwene touched one of the Choedan Kal access keys also in the Panarch's Palace in T'A'R, which caused her pain, but I believe that was just because it was broken.

[Luckers]

Nynaeve has an affinity for sensing the history of things, but she is not the only one. Moiraine displays a similar ability at one stage. I imagine its a fairly common Talent.

[ShaidarMudrover]

At what point does Moiraine display this Talent? I must have missed something...

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

At what point does Moiraine display this Talent? I must have missed something...

 

Yeah' date=' I don't remember her ever having displayed this talent either. You'd think through Rhuidean and Tear we would have found out if she had it, with all the *angreal there.

 

Nynaeve can "read ter'angreal", and Elayne of course, and Avi.[/color']

[Fiera Taishar]

In TSR' date=' Nynaeve examines the male a'dam from the Panarch's Palace in T'A'R. But this causes all women who can channel to feel the sadness/pain, including Elayne, as I recall.

 

Also, Egwene touched one of the Choedan Kal access keys also in the Panarch's Palace in T'A'R, which caused her pain, but I believe that was just because it was broken.[/color']

 

no, I got the a'dam & rod mixed up in TAR. maybe it was outside of t'a'r then, because what I'm talking about is a slender, flexible rod that actually delivers pain. I'm pretty sure Elayne can't sense the pain becuase she told Avie "yea, Nyn already told us it causes pain" which to me sounds like she couldn't tell that herself. So does Nyn, have a Talent somewhat like Avie's, though she can't tell the use (as she hadn't figured out some of the ter'angereal she had borrowed) but rather the sensations associated with the t'a?

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Yes, it's thought that she (Nynaeve) does have that talent, POSSIBLY, because she did sense that from the Rod.

 

This is the scene, from TPoD (Unweaving)

 

"Is this the time to be doing that?" Nynaeve asked. She straightened hastily from the small cluster of ter'angreal, grimacing and rubbing her hand on her skirt. "That rod feels like . . . pain," she muttered. The hard-faced woman holding the packhorse's head blinked at the rod and edged away.

 

Elayne eyed the rod — Nynaeve's occasional impressions about objects she touched could be useful — but she did not stop sorting. There had been too much pain lately to need any more, surely. Not that what Nynaeve sensed was always that straightforward. The rod might have been present when a great deal of pain was caused without being the cause in itself.

 

It's not mentioned that Elayne felt anything when she first picked it out of the pannier. OTOH, this is the only mention of Nynaeve ever having any sensitivity or affinity with ter'angreal (other than using them for a pre-defined purpose).

[rd2000]

Can someone have TWO talents? Remember Nyn already has a talent. Weather sensing, or something like that.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Can someone have TWO talents? Remember Nyn already has a talent. Weather sensing' date=' or something like that.[/quote']

 

I think it's very possible. But I guess it depends on what you consider a Talent. Most channelers can Heal to a certain extent, but you can be really Talented in it. Same with Linking, Shielding, Traveling (?), etc.

 

Nynaeve has the Talent of Listening to the Wind, possibly Reading Ter'angreal, and is a very proficient Healer. She can also Travel.

 

Elayne can make Ter'angreal, test Ter'angreal, possibly read them, and Travel...

 

Avhienda can Travel, Read Ter'angreal, sense residues of saidar, and unweave saidar.

 

Egwene is a Dreamer and a Dreamwalker, two different Talents, and can Travel as well.

 

We haven't seen much of men's Talents. Rand is always blundering around so who knows what is just dumb luck and what's a true Talent. Obviously he can Channel. He may have some Talents with the weather or with the earth (in Rhuidean when he kept pulling up water).

[Thor]

Sorry, but Travelling does not count as a talent, not in my eyes anyways.

[Darkloki]

Traveling isnt a talent, it is something based completely with the power. Those who can travel are strong enough, if you know the weave and have enough power, even linked with enogh people to get the power needed, you can travel. Isnt there sometimes in the book where 3 or more people are linked just so they can travel from Saladar. I think that was the place. And the feeling of pain from Nyv, could just be a warning to it causing alot of pain in upcomimng times. Similar to her sensing battles, or storms. Or just that there was alot of pain when it was around, but I don't think she can actually read T'A's , that is for Avi.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=135

 

See above for listings of Talents.

 

Besides, there is some indication that with two channelers of equal strength, one may be able to open a bigger and better gateway than another.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The line between "Talents" and "weaves" is sort of fuzzy, I think intentionally. Travelling does seem to be treated more like a "weave" than a "Talent" even though it is consistently mentioned in lists of Talents on fan sites ... I can't recall it being labeled as such in any of the books ... nor can I recall something like this:

 

Besides, there is some indication that with two channelers of equal strength, one may be able to open a bigger and better gateway than another.

 

Could you point out an example of such an indication? I can't bring any to mind ... which doesn't mean there aren't any, of course, just that I don't remember any. I haven't looked into it too specifically though.

[Thor]

Avi's gateways are always smaller than they should be, but that is due to the mental block of her experience with her first gateway.

[Darkloki]

Figure running through the snow and having some pretty hot sex in the could wouldn't make a block, she would be doing it more often, but that is just my thought. And it does not say it is a talent in the books, just that some are simply not strong enough to form the weaves with out being linked. I tried to look at the site you gave me Wynne Jessal but it did not come up. Sorry, I just don't feel that it is a talent :)

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Avhienda's gateways are a good example. She is just as strong as Elayne, but always struggles with gateways.

 

I'd be curious as to where Thor got that little insight into Avhienda's thought process regarding why she has gateway problems. Where in the books is that stated, I don't recall reading it...

 

I agree, the line between strength and Talent is fuzzy, which is why I first off said:

 

I guess it depends on what you consider a Talent. Most channelers can Heal to a certain extent, but you can be really Talented in it. Same with Linking, Shielding, Traveling (?), etc.

 

And RAW. They're all "fan sites", except for the Tor site, and aside from the QotW, there's not a lot of info there.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Well, again, I guess it depends on how you think of Talents.

 

Certain Talents are obviously things the person just knows how to do, without any prior experience. Like reading ter'angreal, or listening to the wind.

 

But are other Talents things that people are just really really good at?

 

For instance, you probably wouldn't consider shielding another channeler a Talent, since all you have to know is that weave. But in ACoS:

 

"You could burst a blood vessel if you keep at that," Berowin said, almost companionably. "We do not try to reach above our station, but skills are honed with time, and this was always nearly a Talent with me. I could hold one of the Forsaken."

 

Would you say Berowin has a Talent at shielding? Would you say Nynaeve or Flinn has a Talent for Healing? Neither of those three achieve their relative knacks through strength in the Power, but just because they happen to be really really good at it. Others with lesser or greater strength may be as good or not so good at Healing or Shielding. So, that's the question.

 

It's just a matter of opinion in how you look at it, I guess.

[RobertAlexWillis]

And RAW. They're all "fan sites", except for the Tor site, and aside from the QotW, there's not a lot of info there.

 

I know. As a fan myself, I didn't mean that as an insult, simply a description.

 

Avhienda's gateways are a good example. She is just as strong as Elayne, but always struggles with gateways.

 

I'd be curious as to where Thor got that little insight into Avhienda's thought process regarding why she has gateway problems. Where in the books is that stated, I don't recall reading it...

 

Actually, I sort of remember that too, she thought it to herself ... I'm looking for a reference.

 

But again, thats a mental block from a specific incident, not an inherent Talent or lack of Talent.

 

Well, again, I guess it depends on how you think of Talents.

 

It does indeed, which is why we agree that the line is fuzzy ... and likely to stay that way.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

This is the scene from TPoD where she creates the gateway that gives her problems. I don't remember a more thorough description given in any other scene of hers. It seems like she's having problems because she's trying to remember how she did it before, instead of working with the weaves she was given, but it's a pretty vague snippet.

 

Aviendha focused, and the flows wove together, creating identity between this place and the place she and Elayne and Nynaeve had chosen on a map. She gestured as though opening tentflaps. That was no part of the weave Elayne had taught her, but it was almost all she could recall of what she herself had done, long before Egwene made her first gateway. The flows coalesced into a silvery, vertical slash that rotated and became an opening in the air, taller than a man and just as wide. Beyond lay a large clearing surrounded by trees twenty or thirty feet high, miles north of the City, on the far side of the river. Knee-high brown grass came right up to the gateway, swaying through in a small breeze; it had not truly turned, only seemed to. Some of those blades were sliced cleanly, though, some lengthwise. The edges of an opening gateway made a razor seem dull.

 

The gateway filled her with dissatisfaction. Elayne could make this weave with only a part of her strength, yet for some reason it required all but a fraction of Aviendha's. She was sure she could have woven a larger, as large as Elayne could, using the weaves she had made without thought while trying to escape Rand al'Thor what seemed a very long time ago, but no matter how often she tried, only scraps came back to her. She felt no envy — rather, she took pride in her near-sister's accomplishments — but her own failure made shame surge in her heart.

[isleofjib]

i don't think Talents are related to the OP. Dreamwalking is considered a Talent, but you don't need to use the OP to dreamwalk or even be a channeller.

 

personally, i think a lot of what you can do with the OP is based on strength and skill. morgase can barely make a flag move because she weak. some people can't travel because they don't have enough strength in the OP to make the weave. i think proper strength is mentioned repeatedly in the series as a requirement to Travel. i've never seen where it's considered a Talent at all.

 

if i recall correctly, Talents don't require the use of the OP at all to work. It seems that Talents manifest themselves more often in people who can channel. Fortelling, dreamwalking, knowing what a ter'angreal does, etc. all just happen, no channelling needed.

 

wynne: i took berowin's statement to mean that she was exceptionally good at sheilding-better than most. not that sheilding was a Talent. i also looked at it as her using an analogy.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

wynne: i took berowin's statement to mean that she was exceptionally good at sheilding-better than most. not that sheilding was a Talent. i also looked at it as her using an analogy.

 

Well' date=' yes. That is my point.

 

Where is the line drawn between being talented, and being Talented.

 

(And I'm not disputing that being able to Travel takes a certain level of strength. That's stated many times in the books, and it can't be argued.)[/color']

[isleofjib]

i was agreeing with you, wynne. i guess i didn't make that clear. i think there are cetain things that require more than just strength in the power to do (or don't require it at all) that some select few people have. i think these are the Talents and are NOT in any way related to being talented (ie, better at something that others can do). with the exception of dreamwalking, Talents are pretty rare. being talented isn't.

 

i guess the easiest way for me to look at it is that a Talent is a special ability. being talented is just being better than others who can do that same thing.

[Luckers]

At what point does Moiraine display this Talent? I must have missed something...

 

In tFoH she states that the angreal she is holding feels like pain and anguish. This is almost an exact mimic of Nynaeves impressions of objects.

 

Yeah, I don't remember her ever having displayed this talent either. You'd think through Rhuidean and Tear we would have found out if she had it, with all the *angreal there.

 

Nynaeve can "read ter'angreal", and Elayne of course, and Avi

 

Actually neither Nynaeve or Elayne can read ter'angreal. In point of fact Elayne has proven herself rather apt at misreading ter'angreal. Her talent is for making them. Nynaeves talent is merely that she gets impressions of the emotions and sensations of other people when they interacted with an object, and this is similar to Moiraines. This has nothing to do with theym being *angreal, nor does it give her any relevant information about the way those *angreal function.

 

Aviendha detects in their function that they are made to cause pain, but Nynaeve percieves the pain of those that it has actually caused people. If it had never been used Aviendha would still be able to glean its purpose, but Nynaeve never would have.

 

The ability seems entirely subjective, so Moiraine having it in the Stone gives her no particualar reason for it to have been active, or for her to have shared those impressions with anyone else.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Actually neither Nynaeve or Elayne can read ter'angreal. In point of fact Elayne has proven herself rather apt at misreading ter'angreal. Her talent is for making them. Nynaeves talent is merely that she gets impressions of the emotions and sensations of other people when they interacted with an object' date=' and this is similar to Moiraines. This has nothing to do with theym being *angreal, nor does it give her any relevant information about the way those *angreal function.[/quote']

 

Actually they both can read ter'angreal.

 

Or, to be more precise, Elayne can, and Nynaeve may be able to.

 

I don't know if you're maybe confused about the definition of this Talent (as much as such things can have definitions--really only how we glean their meaning from the books), but it encompasses more than picking up something and saying "oh this does this." It also involves a sense of how to activate the ter'angreal, which undisputedly Elayne has a knack for.

 

We already discuessed ad nauseum the reason why Nynaeve may have this Talent to a certain degree. I don't know that I think that she actually has it. I think it was just an anomaly that RJ threw in for S&G. But other sites have her listed as possbily having this Talent, so I throw it out there.

 

And I'm still drawing a blank on this scene you reference from TFoH. What ter'angreal was Moiraine holding, and/or what chapter did this occur in? Can you also please further explain your comment about Elayne's 'talent' for misreading ter'angreal? I'm thinking back (not having reread CoT or KoD in a while) and I'm trying to remember an instance where Elayne has made a serious blunder regarding *angreal, but I'm not really bringing anything up. I'm sure you have some examples to furnish...

[Luckers]

Actually they both can read ter'angreal.

 

Nope.

 

Or, to be more precise, Elayne can, and Nynaeve may be able to.

 

Neither can.

 

I don't know if you're maybe confused about the definition of this Talent (as much as such things can have definitions--really only how we glean their meaning from the books), but it encompasses more than picking up something and saying "oh this does this." It also involves a sense of how to activate the ter'angreal, which undisputedly Elayne has a knack for.

 

No, she doesn't. Elayne has no special ability for recogonising how to acitivate specific ter'angreal. This is proven in tPoD.

 

Sorry.

 

 

We already discuessed ad nauseum the reason why Nynaeve may have this Talent to a certain degree. I don't know that I think that she actually has it. I think it was just an anomaly that RJ threw in for S&G. But other sites have her listed as possbily having this Talent, so I throw it out there.

 

Nynaeve senses people sensations and emotional responses to objects when she touches said object. They need not be terángreal.

 

And I'm still drawing a blank on this scene you reference from TFoH. What ter'angreal was Moiraine holding, and/or what chapter did this occur in? Can you also please further explain your comment about Elayne's 'talent' for misreading ter'angreal? I'm thinking back (not having reread CoT or KoD in a while) and I'm trying to remember an instance where Elayne has made a serious blunder regarding *angreal, but I'm not really bringing anything up. I'm sure you have some examples to furnish...

 

Moiraine. Choices. Chapter 52. The angreal wielded by Lanfear felt of pain and anguish to her.

 

Elayne has no talent for reading ter'angreal, her mishap with the ter'angreal in tPoD shows that. In fact her whole pov there shows no special ability to read ter' angreal. her commenta when Aviendha more then prove that.

 

But honestly, aside from which, Nynaeve never displays a talent for readin terángreal... neither does Elayne... The remarkability of Aviendha's ability was made a point of... i dont get this discusion.