Aes-sadi Warder Bound

[MCauthon]

just wondered i reammber reading in one of the books that after the aes sadi dies here warder dies few years later, so i just wented to know is it a must, or they die just cause they were connected for so long?

and the bond can be broken is some way?

 

 

thx for the help

[RobertAlexWillis]

Here you go:

 

Week 13 Question: Is the White Tower currently aware of any way to completely dissolve/undo the bond between an Aes Sedai and her Warder so that the link no longer exists and all the positive and negative effects of the bond are removed?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: Yes, they are. It is called releasing a Warder, and an Aes Sedai who is very old or injured so badly that she knows she is going to die will, if she has the strength, release him so he doesn't suffer from her death. This does require the two of them to be together, and a little more time that laying on the bond. If they are physically apart, or she doesn't have enough time or strength remaining, tough on him.

 

It has also been used to get rid of a Warder who proved to be unsuitable in some way, such as a man who is discovered to be a thief or who takes reckless chances, a fighter of duels who won't stop without the bond being used to force him. No sister is going to want a Warder who will risk getting himself killed, with all the attendant results to her, for no very good reason.

 

Although use of the bond in that way (controlling) was not unknown in the past, it came to be regarded as a form of Compulsion to use it so except in the slightest forms. Besides, using the bond to control a Warder all the time is a lot of work. An Aes Sedai wants somebody who can watch her back and keep it safe, not somebody she has to work on all the time. (Which is one of the reasons Aes Sedai stopped bonding men against their will. Not ethical concerns or ethical growth, I'm afraid; it was just not very practical really) Better simply to release the fellow who can't measure up and find another who will.

 

By the by, releasing a Warder except for cause (the Aes Sedai's imminent death, his own unsuitability) or because he has asked for release is something that JUST IS NOT DONE! It would gain the sister considerable opprobrium from other sisters. A sister certainly would be looked at askance if she released a Warder who was dying, for example, just to avoid the effects on her of his death. When an Aes Sedai bonds a Warder, she is expected to buy in for the full ride. For that matter, releasing him for unsuitability is considered to reflect on the sister's judgement. She should have known better about him from the start.

 

from: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152

[Thor]

The warder doesn't die after the aes sedai dies.

The warder actually seek death.

 

Yeah warders can be released by their aes sedai.

 

But any other way will result in the warder seeking death.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Generally not a few years later. If he makes it that long, he will probably survive. The reason being is that when an Aes Sedai dies while still bound to her Warder it was likely a sudden and untimely death or Stilling. Sometimes the shock of such an event is enough to kill the Warder out right. If he survives the initial shock, he will likely soon die in an suicidal attempt at revenge.

 

A Warder can be released from his bond. Normally, doing so will reflect poorly on the Aes Sedai who had bonded him though as she will be seen as having shown poor judgement in her choice of Warders. About the only time it won't reflect badly on the Aes Sedai is if she knows her death is approaching, say from old age or terminal illness. At that point it is considered proper for her to release her Warder thus sparing him the effects of her passing.

 

Edit: I really need to stop rewording my posts. When I started writing that, neither Robert or Thor had posted. By the time I was satisfied with what I wrote, both of them had.

[MCauthon]

oh ty guys, so in fact if the man dosnt went to be a warder, nothing will happen to him if the Aes die right?

 

 

u jsut wanderd about the wolf dude (alice somthing dont know how 2 write in english) what happend to his aes sadi...

[Guest cwestervelt]

oh ty guys' date=' so in fact if the man dosnt went to be a warder, nothing will happen to him if the Aes die right?

 

 

u jsut wanderd about the wolf dude (alice somthing dont know how 2 write in english) what happend to his aes sadi...[/quote']

 

To my knowledge Elyas is still very much bound. As such, should something untowards happen to his Aes Sedai, he will go into a suicide rage. It has nothing to do with desire but is an inherent result of the bond.

[Thor]

oh ty guys' date=' so in fact if the man dosnt went to be a warder, nothing will happen to him if the Aes die right?

 

 

u jsut wanderd about the wolf dude (alice somthing dont know how 2 write in english) what happend to his aes sadi...[/quote']

 

I assum you;re talking about Rand then.

 

No, if Alanna dies, Rand will go all suicidal, unless his other three keepers can somehow give him something to live for. :lol:

[Guest cwestervelt]

oh ty guys' date=' so in fact if the man dosnt went to be a warder, nothing will happen to him if the Aes die right?

 

 

u jsut wanderd about the wolf dude (alice somthing dont know how 2 write in english) what happend to his aes sadi...[/quote']

 

I assum you;re talking about Rand then.

 

No, if Alanna dies, Rand will go all suicidal, unless his other three keepers can somehow give him something to live for. :lol:

 

Actually, they don't need to give him something to live for. Just exert enough control through the bond to hold him in check. Of course, your suggestion would be a lot more fun.

[MCauthon]

nope was talking about Elyas, he killed some aes sadi didnt he? or warder? how cant he still be bound?

 

i think somthing dont make seanse in this connction, its vert easy to do, but gains the one who does that alot of power over the other pearson..

if one of the chosen will use it on rand, according 2 what u say if hell die then rand will go into frenzy?

[Guest cwestervelt]

nope was talking about Elyas' date=' he killed some aes sadi didnt he? or warder? how cant he still be bound?[/quote']

 

Yes, Elyas killed a Warder or two during his escape from the Red Ajah. His own Aes Sedai could have prevented his escape, but she allowed him to leave. As I said earlier, to the best of my knowledge, that Aes Sedai still holds the bond. That means she knows he is still alive could find him again if she should choose to. An untimely death on her part would cause him to go psycho.

 

i think somthing dont make seanse in this connction' date=' its vert easy to do, but gains the one who does that alot of power over the other pearson..

if one of the chosen will use it on rand, according 2 what u say if hell die then rand will go into frenzy?[/quote']

 

First, the Foresaken, unless they have learned how since awakening, do not know the weave for Bonding. With their superior attitude, and there tendency to see 3rd Age developments and barbaric, they are unlikely to even want to learn. Second, since Rand is bonded to Elayne/Min/Aviendha and not to mention to Allanna, they stand a chance at suppressing such suicidal inclination. For all we know, the remaining bonds might even suppress the rage without a conscious action by those holding it.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Is is a given, a requirement of the Bond, that the Warder seek death upon his Aes Sedai's death though? Or is it just that they all want to?

 

I don't know how to phrase this right... under certain circumstances, if the Aes Sedai died and maybe the Warder didn't like her (for example! just bear with me), or was in love with some woman, or... something, couldn't he manage to fight back that desire. He would be traumatized certainly!

 

I just don't see Rand being sent into a suicidal rage if Alanna died, since she Bonded him against his will and they aren't that close...

 

*wracks brain for illustration*

 

Okay, like (I hope there's no MDs in the audience) if a person gets certain cancers, they will likely have chemo (I'm not a medical professional--don't flame me!) and their hair will fall out. So you might think that the cancer causes everyone's hair to fall out, when really it is not the cancer itself, but caused by another factor closely related. It happens with such certainty that you say one causes the other, except that's not the case.

[Guest cwestervelt]

It is a side effect. Liking of the Aes Sedai wouldn't make any differnce as it is basically a severing of the part that makes him want to live.

 

In one of the books a Black Ajah Sister is thinking about how her Warder is getting closer, using her unmasked Bond to track her down. She also knows that when he finds her, he intends to kill her even though he knows what will happen to himself when he does.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

It is a side effect. Liking of the Aes Sedai wouldn't make any differnce as it is basically a severing of the part that makes him want to live.

 

In one of the books a Black Ajah Sister is thinking about how her Warder is getting closer' date=' using her unmasked Bond to track her down. She also knows that when he finds her, he intends to kill her even though he knows what will happen to himself when he does.[/quote']

 

Right I know that everyone thinks to themselves that a Warder would die if his AS died. That doesn't make it accurate. Everyone thought Stilling couldn't be Healed, etc. etc.

 

"Not like" may be too mild a term. What if, under some random circumstance, a Warder hated his AS and wanted out of the Bond but she refused. If she died, why would he suddenly want to go off himself.

 

And, can you point me where it's written specifically that it severs the "part that makes him want to live." I just always need the reference. :)

[SBoydW]

I think that the bond being severed is similar in ways to being stilled or gentled. When a warder is bonded the Aes Sedai becomes an integral part of him. Unless the Aes Seadai shields her feelings he feels just about everything that she does. The bond supports the Warder in ways that we don't and can;t fully understand. When something like that is ripped away when an Aes Sedai dies, a big part of the Warder goes with it.

 

So I don't neccesarily think the they go "seeking death". I think it's more that they are so depresed that they just don't care what happens to them. It goes the same somewhat for the Aes Sedai when they lose a Warder. I can't place my hands on it right now but there is an account in the books where I know that Siuan describes what she felt after her Warder was killed, and I believe that Leanne also give an account. It went somethinglike they cried for months and were inconsolable.

 

 

I don't know how to phrase this right... under certain circumstances, if the Aes Sedai died and maybe the Warder didn't like her (for example! just bear with me), or was in love with some woman, or... something, couldn't he manage to fight back that desire. He would be traumatized certainly!

 

I think that this is somewhat like when and Aes Sedai is Stilled or a male channeler is Gentled. The only known survivors of this are people who found something to replace the lose of saidin/saidar. I think that it would definatley be easier for the Warder, and even easier for him with another loved one or something to keep his mind of the loss.

 

I just don't see Rand being sent into a suicidal rage if Alanna died, since she Bonded him against his will and they aren't that close...

 

I agree, Rand would definatley go into a "suicidal rage" if Alanna died. She would just become another name on his list. He might actually be a little relived. His mind is a little crowded. Elayne, Min, Avi, Lews Therin, Alanna, and I'm sure Rand is there somewhere.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Yeah, and if it's just a case of the Warder becoming severely depressed (mild term) and losing the will to live, then I could see things coming up that would "take the place" of that emptiness left by the AS, or something else coming up to prevent them from wanting to die and going to find some way to do so.

 

I was just reading PoD, and Elayne muses that if she died, Birgitte would be 'pained' or something, but moreso as a friend than a Warder. Elayne doesn't say that Birgitte would DIE. Maybe Elayne doesn't know, or maybe it's not a requirement that the Warder die--just that they always seem to.

[SBoydW]

I think that the effects can vary. If there is a strong, friendly relationship in the bond I think the effects of losing it would be worse than two people bonded together that hated each other. If you lose someone that you love cared for and supported physically, mentaly, spirtually then it's hard to handle. Losing someone whose guts you hate, but you've been stuck with them for who knows how long, not so hard.

[Guest cwestervelt]

It is a side effect. Liking of the Aes Sedai wouldn't make any differnce as it is basically a severing of the part that makes him want to live.

 

In one of the books a Black Ajah Sister is thinking about how her Warder is getting closer' date=' using her unmasked Bond to track her down. She also knows that when he finds her, he intends to kill her even though he knows what will happen to himself when he does.[/quote']

 

Right I know that everyone thinks to themselves that a Warder would die if his AS died. That doesn't make it accurate. Everyone thought Stilling couldn't be Healed, etc. etc.

 

"Not like" may be too mild a term. What if, under some random circumstance, a Warder hated his AS and wanted out of the Bond but she refused. If she died, why would he suddenly want to go off himself.

 

And, can you point me where it's written specifically that it severs the "part that makes him want to live." I just always need the reference. :)

 

I can't believe I am looking up quotes at 12:30am...

 

From the second paragraph of the section on Warders. BWB page 215.

If a Warder lives but his Aes Sedai is killed, the Warder loses the will to live. Worse, he seems to seek death. Attempts to keep these Warders alive usually fail.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

I can't believe I am looking up quotes at 12:30am...

 

From the second paragraph of the section on Warders. BWB page 215.

If a Warder lives but his Aes Sedai is killed' date=' the Warder loses the will to live. Worse, he seems to seek death. Attempts to keep these Warders alive usually fail.[/quote']

 

Ah, BWB. I always forget that dumb thing.

 

Thanks though.

 

It does say "usually", though, so there is some hope. As witnessed with Lan.

 

And I still wonder how this applies to Rand/Alanna, since her Bonding him was not done in the traditional manner, and he is also Bonded to the other gals which should balance the negative affects should Alanna die an untimely death.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It does say "usually", though, so there is some hope. As witnessed with Lan.

 

Moiraine altered the bond to Compel Lan not to avenge her.

 

And being in love is mostly what kept him alive. Thats why Myrelle has a higher rate of success with keeping Warders who lost their Sister alive: she beds them.

 

And I still wonder how this applies to Rand/Alanna, since her Bonding him was not done in the traditional manner, and he is also Bonded to the other gals which should balance the negative affects should Alanna die an untimely death.

 

I would imagine her death would affect him the same way, but he is far more likely to die before she does, so its probably a moot point. Plus, he has three women to live for, instead of just one like Lan, in case Alanna does eat it first.