Hemaprodite Channelers

[Hagazussa]

This is perhaps a strange question but me and my gaming group full of fantasy nerds got onto this topic a while ago and it have been bugging me ever since, what would happen in the Wheel of Time world if you had a hemaprodite who started channeling? Hemaprodites are rate but since such babies are born from time to time in our world chances are it could happen in WoT as well, what side would they channel?

 

Also do what side a person channel follow their physical gender or their mind and soul. You have folks who are born into the wrong body, for example someone who is physically male but who completely identify as a man, and while neither hemaprodites or anyone with such gender issues have shown up in the series, well other than a few of the Forsaken reborn into new bodies but that is something a little different, if it happens in nature it could in theory happen in this setting as well, so what side would someone who have a gender identity different from their body channel?

[Barid Bel Medar]

INTERVIEW: Nov 21st, 1998

TPOD Signing Report - John Novak (Paraphrased)

 

 

ROBERT JORDAN (22 NOVEMBER 1998)

Someone actually asked Jordan whether a hermaphrodite would channel saidin or saidar. Jordan was...non-plussed. "A hermaphrodite?! I dunno. I'd have to sit down and figure that out." He shot the guy a funny look as he walked away, then remarked to the next group of people in line that he put that in the same category as the person who wrote to ask him what Donald Duck would channel.

 

Not much help, but there it is.

[Vardar]

INTERVIEW: Nov 21st, 1998

TPOD Signing Report - John Novak (Paraphrased)

 

 

ROBERT JORDAN (22 NOVEMBER 1998)

Someone actually asked Jordan whether a hermaphrodite would channel saidin or saidar. Jordan was...non-plussed. "A hermaphrodite?! I dunno. I'd have to sit down and figure that out." He shot the guy a funny look as he walked away, then remarked to the next group of people in line that he put that in the same category as the person who wrote to ask him what Donald Duck would channel.

 

Not much help, but there it is.

 

LOL! Nice quote. While I think it's a valid question, I guess they don't have birth defects in their world.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, even though it is a bit out there, I think it is valid.

[TristanWebb]

The body is defected (loaded term I guess but it is a birth defect), but the soul would still be either male or female right? So it could be either depending on the soul but not both.

[Vardar]

The body is defected (loaded term I guess but it is a birth defect), but the soul would still be either male or female right? So it could be either depending on the soul but not both.

 

That would be my thought. (yea it' is a loaded term, but it's accurate, it's an abnormality, so defect).

[he who comes with a bong]

I would have to say that it would be what ever was the dominate, either female or male. So maybee 50 50 shot of channeling either sadin or saidar.

[thisguy]

Hermaphrodites usually lean towards more of one sex than the other, so I'm guessing whatever that sex is they'd channel the corresponding power.

[Hagazussa]

LOL! Nice quote. While I think it's a valid question, I guess they don't have birth defects in their world.

 

Well they do have some birth defects at least, it is mentioned that albino children are often put out into the forest to die in superstitious villages since some belie such children come from the Dark One. That being said I do not think being a hermaphrodite is a birth defect, not if every part is actually, well working and the child is healthy, yes I know defect is a proper term for it but I do not think everything that is different is a defect.

 

The body is defected (loaded term I guess but it is a birth defect), but the soul would still be either male or female right? So it could be either depending on the soul but not both.

 

Most of the time a hermaphrodite would lean towards one gender or the other, and there are varying degrees of this, but some do not have one gender mentality but both and you also have those who have no gender mentality at all. If I where to guess a hermaphrodite channeler would channel the side of the gender they are most connected to, but if you have a true and complete hermaphrodite I have a feeling the result could be messy.

 

Now perhaps more interesting is what about the gender of the body vs the gender of the mind and soul. I know some will always call someone born as a man or a woman in body a member of their physical gender, but even the law in many nations recognize those who are transgendered, what would happen if you had a man trapped in a female body or a female trapped in a man's body, do channeling ability follow the body or the soul?

[Alric]

From RJ's reaction, he probably hadn't given it much thought. I guess in Randland you're predetermined to channel either saidin or saidar. We know that you cannot change that. When Balthamel's soul was transferred to a new body in Aran'gar, it was still linked to saidin. I think that confirms it well enough. As for those who are not sure about their gender, they will still have to deal with either saidin or saidar if they can channel, regardless of how they feel. I don't think RJ meant to make any type of political or cultural statement, its just how his world works. You are born with saidin or saidar just as you are born with other characteristics.

[thisguy]

Being a hermaphrodite isn't a sexual choice. It's completely biological.

[Hagazussa]

Yes but which one. If we have a person, let us call hir Lisa who is physically a woman but who identify as a man from birth, what side would she channel, saidar since she is physically a woman, or saidin since she is mentally and spiritually a man? I agree that a person would only channel one side, but we are going to speculate here, which side?

[Hagazussa]

Being a hermaphrodite isn't a sexual choice. It's completely biological.

 

This is correct, but then being transexual is not a choice either, it is how a person is born, nor is is a sexual choice it have to do with a person's whole being.

[Barid Bel Medar]

It would be the persons soul. Physical bodies don't have much to do with it, as we seen in Balthamael's case. (And also RJ said that Rand's soul is always a man, as with everyone else)

 

Apparently the soul has a specific gender. If they were born with the physical anomaly that is hermaphroditism, they would channel whatever their soul gender channelled.

[Vardar]

LOL! Nice quote. While I think it's a valid question, I guess they don't have birth defects in their world.

 

Well they do have some birth defects at least, it is mentioned that albino children are often put out into the forest to die in superstitious villages since some belie such children come from the Dark One. That being said I do not think being a hermaphrodite is a birth defect, not if every part is actually, well working and the child is healthy, yes I know defect is a proper term for it but I do not think everything that is different is a defect.

 

The body is defected (loaded term I guess but it is a birth defect), but the soul would still be either male or female right? So it could be either depending on the soul but not both.

 

Most of the time a hermaphrodite would lean towards one gender or the other, and there are varying degrees of this, but some do not have one gender mentality but both and you also have those who have no gender mentality at all. If I where to guess a hermaphrodite channeler would channel the side of the gender they are most connected to, but if you have a true and complete hermaphrodite I have a feeling the result could be messy.

 

Now perhaps more interesting is what about the gender of the body vs the gender of the mind and soul. I know some will always call someone born as a man or a woman in body a member of their physical gender, but even the law in many nations recognize those who are transgendered, what would happen if you had a man trapped in a female body or a female trapped in a man's body, do channeling ability follow the body or the soul?

 

Where did you get the albino quote? I've never heard of that.

 

And Bel is right, and proper answer is whatever the soul is, as Agrinor proves.

[thisguy]

Being a hermaphrodite isn't a sexual choice. It's completely biological.

 

This is correct, but then being transexual is not a choice either, it is how a person is born, nor is is a sexual choice it have to do with a person's whole being.

That's a good point, but in RJ's world there's no example of a woman who can channel saidin. There are lesbian AS but they channel Saidar - that's the closest example we have of this. It seems that the soul matches the body unless the DO screws with it.

[Hagazussa]

I do not remember which book the thing about albinos was in it was in, but I am pretty damned sure I read it I tend to remember little details about things like that, the word albino was never used, but children born with white hair, and red eyes where so from the description they where obviously albinos.

 

Come to think about it there is a chance that the WoT world would not have transgendered people or hermaphrodites unless you have a situation like with the Forsaken who came back to life in different gendered bodies, the WoT world is so tightly tied to destiny that it may be that everyone have the souls they are meant to have and unless the Wheel had a particular purpose for someone who where transgendered one would not be produced. However if there where a transgendered person you could potentially have a little girl, well girl in body, who because hir mind and soul is that of a man hir would begin channeling saidin? That actually makes sense. Thank you for answering my question, it will just be speculation off course since nothing of the sort are seen in the books, save before mentioned Forsaken, but that channeling ability follows the gender of the soul makes allot of sense.

[Hagazussa]

Being a hermaphrodite isn't a sexual choice. It's completely biological.

 

This is correct, but then being transexual is not a choice either, it is how a person is born, nor is is a sexual choice it have to do with a person's whole being.

That's a good point, but in RJ's world there's no example of a woman who can channel saidin. There are lesbian AS but they channel Saidar - that's the closest example we have of this. It seems that the soul matches the body unless the DO screws with it.

 

Being lesbian or homosexual do not mean that one is transgendered or even close to it. I am bisexual and I am 100 percent a woman, I just happen to find both men and women sexually and romantically attractive. In fact someone who is a man in a woman's body or vice versa would not be homosexual for having desires for some of the same physical gender sine their mental gender was the opposite. I am sorry for posting two posts right after one another but I just had to say that, being homosexual or lesbian do not mean one is transgendered, even a very butch lesbian or a feminine gay man would not be transgendered.

[thisguy]

Being a hermaphrodite isn't a sexual choice. It's completely biological.

 

This is correct, but then being transexual is not a choice either, it is how a person is born, nor is is a sexual choice it have to do with a person's whole being.

That's a good point, but in RJ's world there's no example of a woman who can channel saidin. There are lesbian AS but they channel Saidar - that's the closest example we have of this. It seems that the soul matches the body unless the DO screws with it.

 

Being lesbian or homosexual do not mean that one is transgendered or even close to it. I am bisexual and I am 100 percent a woman, I just happen to find both men and women sexually and romantically attractive. In fact someone who is a man in a woman's body or vice versa would not be homosexual for having desires for some of the same physical gender sine their mental gender was the opposite. I am sorry for posting two posts right after one another but I just had to say that, being homosexual or lesbian do not mean one is transgendered, even a very butch lesbian or a feminine gay man would not be transgendered.

I never said it was. That is just the closest example we have in RJ's world.