Alice in Wonderland

[Gabriel Kross]

So I know it's a bit late considering there was just a big event for this but I stumbled across something...

 

excluding the fact that the book itself is based off of an acid trip (acid was a big thing when this book was written I'm unsure if the author personally was doing acid or was just observing those around him) the disney rendition is pretty f'd up

 

The whole paint the roses red scene if you dig into it is VERY dark, White roses symbolize death and seeing as the queen is always shouting off with his/her head the scene can only mean one of 2 things, the red could either be symbolizing the blood spilt in physically offing someones head or covereing up that her kingdom is pretty much a land of death...

[Wren of the Brown]

 

The whole paint the roses red scene if you dig into it is VERY dark, White roses symbolize death and seeing as the queen is always shouting off with his/her head the scene can only mean one of 2 things, the red could either be symbolizing the blood spilt in physically offing someones head or covereing up that her kingdom is pretty much a land of death...

 

I fail to see a problem.

[Gabriel Kross]

the fact that the movie was made for little kids...

[Wren of the Brown]

This is derived symbology, an extension of what's explicit. Children get that the Red Queen is busily lopping off heads with dull knives but she is an antagonist whose cruelty is never graphic.

 

I wouldn't sweat it. What I would concern myself with is the typical message of the passive Disney princess who is never really a capable agent but a prize to be won. Compare that to other off-the-beaten path heroines in other movies who are girly but capable, mischevious, adventerous and determined. Chihiro in Spirited Away rescues her parents and experiences real growth. Even Disney's version of Alice is a farcry more capable than Cinderella or Snow White because her curiosity lands her in a bind behind the veil of normal reality and she faces that adversity with calm bravery and a little bit exasperation. If I am ever blessed with daughters, they need to learn that life is not lived by being a man's prize but winningthe day for themselves.

 

And a little bit of terror never hurts.

[Rekinu Alasayaar]

so what is your take on Tangled then?

[Gabriel Kross]

she totally beats people with a frying pan

[Charis alAslan]

I agree with Hiarthbeorn!

 

The author was unlikely to be doing acid at the time of his writing. You can look into our thread about Lewis Carroll himself HERE to learn more about him. He was a brilliant logician and mathematician as well as a priest.

 

We also discussed film adaptations HERE. And we discussed AiW the book in particular HERE. I posted a link there about how the whole novel is actually a commentary on the 'new math' emerging at that time.

 

Feel free to jump in and write your thoughts there since those threads are still small enough to be expanded upon, and you'll get more responses.

[Gabriel Kross]

yea but it was also a story about drugs I had to research it back in highschool not sure where I found theinformation I used as it was a long time ago but its true >.>

[Wren of the Brown]

Well, the Hatter was mad but it was a trait which many of his peers shared because of the mercury they worked with. He himself didn't share many of the same symptoms of anxiety and disorientation but I'm not sure what exactly Dodgsen had in mind as an inspiration.

 

I would advise you to read Euclid and His Modern Rivals - it puts to rest the notion that Dodgson/Carroll was off his nut and doing copious amounts of drugs. He also addressed a lot of logical principles in the books and dealt with it in other mathematical works.

 

He's a complicated figure but moderns like their simple explanations and American McGee has not helped much.

[michellem]

Dinsey movies in general is a bit messed up if you start thinking about it :)

[Rasheta Ardashir]

As a child you don't really think about all the symbolism etc that goes into a kids movie. I liked the movie, still do, I think in general Walt toned things down a bit. The Jabberwocky is totally gone except in the Cheshire Cat's two line nod to the poem. You don't really think why the Mat Hatter and the march Hare are considered "mad" because Ed Wyn does such a great job of just being silly, so as a child you just assume that sillyness is the reason they are considered "mad". Every movie needs a villain and in this case the Queen of Hearts played that role. As a child I never really thought of her as gruesome because she was beheading cards, they weren't "real" as far as I was concerned.

 

I think if you are going to pick on Disney as a whole, something to consider is the time period things are set and the target audience. I know people get into snits about Sleeping Beauty saying that she was ready to be married because she was 16, at the time the movie was set that was just about right another year and she would have almost been too old. Most girls were getting married between 13-16 anything above that and she was spinster. To continue down another thread of conversation *laughs* I don't think Cinderella is totally in the "come rescue me" category. She has her own spunk, plus she's a house maid and cleans everything in a huge house as well as dealing with the animals. If anything you could use her as an example of what hard work can pay off with. Princess Jasmine is my favorite of the Disney Princesses because she isn't "come save me" although Aladdin does get her out of the hourglass at the end, she saves him a few times on her own. In the third Aladdin movie she actually gets into a fight and punches one of the thieves, in need of rescue I think not. Rapunzel is another good example and 99% of the time she is saving Flynn. As a child though a lot of these things escape you basically what the child wants is to be entertained, with a bit of scary thrown in, Maleficent anyone?

[Charis alAslan]

Well, the Hatter was mad but it was a trait which many of his peers shared because of the mercury they worked with. He himself didn't share many of the same symptoms of anxiety and disorientation but I'm not sure what exactly Dodgsen had in mind as an inspiration.

 

I would advise you to read Euclid and His Modern Rivals - it puts to rest the notion that Dodgson/Carroll was off his nut and doing copious amounts of drugs. He also addressed a lot of logical principles in the books and dealt with it in other mathematical works.

 

He's a complicated figure but moderns like their simple explanations and American McGee has not helped much.

^this

 

Princess Jasmine is my favorite of the Disney Princesses because she isn't "come save me" although Aladdin does get her out of the hourglass at the end, she saves him a few times on her own. In the third Aladdin movie she actually gets into a fight and punches one of the thieves, in need of rescue I think not.

I'm glad to have a Disney character with my RL name that isn't a silly pansy.

[Gabriel Kross]

Well, the Hatter was mad but it was a trait which many of his peers shared because of the mercury they worked with. He himself didn't share many of the same symptoms of anxiety and disorientation but I'm not sure what exactly Dodgsen had in mind as an inspiration.

 

I would advise you to read Euclid and His Modern Rivals - it puts to rest the notion that Dodgson/Carroll was off his nut and doing copious amounts of drugs. He also addressed a lot of logical principles in the books and dealt with it in other mathematical works.

 

He's a complicated figure but moderns like their simple explanations and American McGee has not helped much.

 

 

 

I never said Carroll was for sure doing drugs, I said I wasn't sure if he was or if it was based off his observations of people around him who did drugs

[Mirshann Uuranor]

she totally beats people with a frying pan

Win. \o/

[michellem]

Speaking of bad-ass Disney girls; Esmeralda, anyone? I know she's not considered a princess, but girl's got spunk. Not to mention Mulan, who goes off to save China almost singlehandedly.

[Gabriel Kross]

she totally beats people with a frying pan

Win. \o/

 

MirshMirsh knows whats up!