Forced allegiance to the Shadow

[moroten]

We know that 13 channelers and 13 myrdaals can turn a channeler into following the Shadow.

 

We also know the ever quoted statement that no one can be deep enough into the shadow that there is no way back to the light. One can return to the light.

Ingtar, the follower who defied his allegiance to the shadow and died for the light.

 

Regarding Ingtar and many others whom we have encountered of the shadow, there is a personality within them. They argument within themselfs if their decision is the right one. The white cloak(dont recall his name) never questions his allegiance but he mourns the deaths of his relatives, especially his favourite sister. Those thoughts can be the foundation upon which defiance can manifest and grow. What Im saying is that the darkfriends have reasons on why they joined the other side and sometimes argues with themselfs why, as if they are questions their decision.

 

But if we look on the people that have been forced to join the darkside they didnt join on their own accord, obviously, and we dont have a PoV of them. But we have others meeting them and recall conversing with them and find them odd. Their personality has changed. What is different here with their bond to the shadow? Rand often sees the "black bond" on the darkfriend and twice he cuts it, once for his mother and once for Asmodean. Their personality didnt change due to the bond being cut only their connection with the dark one was cut. They themselfs are the same. What does this bond then represent? Reffering to the forced allegiance and it seems as if it has no effect, otherwise people forced to the shadow should have their personality intact(to invoke less suspicion) and letting the bond be sufficient enough to controll them. But judging by Ingtar and others the bond seems mere only a matter of representation. The bond represent the shadow but the personaly is the mean which defines the person of being a follower of the shadow.

 

By this reasoning the 13 mydraal and 13 channelers somehow changes the personality of this channeler that they are turning. Perhaps the bond is established aswell we dont know. But we do know from other experiences of darkfriends that the personality and its argumentation plays a huge role.

 

I try to make my thoughts regarding this matter as easy as possible to abtain, they might seems jumbled, I apologize for that. But I wonder what others ideas are concerning this issue! Is the bond sifnificant to the darkfriend or is simply like a slavemark, representing something, is personality the true bond to the shadow?

[Sharaman]

I think RJ said that a person turned by 13x13 had his/ her nasty impulses amplified and wouldn't want to return to the Light.

That leaves open the question that a return and repentance is possible. Perhaps there is some way to reverse the process?

[moroten]

Well with that statement it seems as if forced turning changes ones personality and it is with that alone that they stay with the shadow. Then what is the purpose of the bond?

Hopefully it can be reversed, Nyanaeve comes to mind that wants to heal everything part from death.

 

No other thoughts on this topic?

[bbarrett90]

I see the forced bond as a sort of removal of the soul of the person. What's left over is simply a husk of what used to be, a tool to be used by the DO. It might be that because of what the 13x13 do with the power, it gives the DO much more personal control over a person's actions. I think it could be related to compulsion, but on a completely different level.

[2RiversFan]

Moroten;

 

Regarding the 'black bonds' you seem to be mistaken. Those bonds that Rand cuts when he fights Ishamael and Asmodean are buffers from the taint. The dark one only gives those to the Forsaken, as far as we know from the books.

 

Normal Darkfriends wouldn't have them, even if they are male and can channel.

 

Regarding the 13x13, I personally believe that someone from the Light will discover a method of counter-acting it.

 

One thing about Ingtar that I am curious about, I'm wondering if Verin made an attempt to use compulsion on him while they were in Cairhien - just after Rand, Loial and Hurin find that the waygate is guarded by Machin Chin??? I know she states later in the series that maybe in TPoD (?) that she doesn't use it on men, but still... knowing what we know about her double agent status, would it have been to have Ingtar turn back to the light or to give him the last shove towards darkness?

[moroten]

Moroten;

 

Regarding the 'black bonds' you seem to be mistaken. Those bonds that Rand cuts when he fights Ishamael and Asmodean are buffers from the taint. The dark one only gives those to the Forsaken, as far as we know from the books.

 

Normal Darkfriends wouldn't have them, even if they are male and can channel.

 

Regarding the 13x13, I personally believe that someone from the Light will discover a method of counter-acting it.

 

One thing about Ingtar that I am curious about, I'm wondering if Verin made an attempt to use compulsion on him while they were in Cairhien - just after Rand, Loial and Hurin find that the waygate is guarded by Machin Chin??? I know she states later in the series that maybe in TPoD (?) that she doesn't use it on men, but still... knowing what we know about her double agent status, would it have been to have Ingtar turn back to the light or to give him the last shove towards darkness?

 

Actually you cant say for certain that normal dark friends has no black bonds since we have havnt encountered Rand fighting a normal dark friend in ages. Besides we do have proof of this in tEotW with Kari, Rands mother. He slices the bond holding her to the shadow.

[2RiversFan]

Hello again Moroten,

 

You said:

Actually you cant say for certain that normal dark friends has no black bonds since we have havnt encountered Rand fighting a normal dark friend in ages. Besides we do have proof of this in tEotW with Kari, Rands mother. He slices the bond holding her to the shadow.

 

Actually we learn (if I recall correctly) in Ths Shadow Rising from Asmodean that the 'Black Bonds' are how the dark one keeps his forsaken free of madness - the bonds filter out the taint. Although I don't have the book with me, I believe that Asmodean tells Rand it's only for the 'Chosen'. There is a widely accepted discussion and conclusion on the matter: Here.

 

As far as Rand's adoptive mother having the bonds, that was some trick with the true power or a trick within Tel'aran'rhoid simply to persuade Rand of the DO's ability to reach everything/anything.