Question about Birgitte

[Yamahako]

Min always sees the FUTURE right? Well in a Winter's Heart, she sees a million images surrounding Birgitte - doesn't think mean she will still be spun back into the wheel, and will still be linked to Gaidal Cain?

 

I seemed to think that this was in question from the reading - maybe I'm just now seeing the obvious...

[Tom Sawyer]

She seems to see the future and the past. For instance, when she saw Lan, she saw him as a baby in a crib holding his sword.

 

With Birgitte, what I took that to mean was that the ones where she was younger than Gaidal were past lives and Moggy's interference meant that going forward, she'd still be linked to Gaidal but always older than him.

[randsc]

She seems to see the future and the past. For instance, when she saw Lan, she saw him as a baby in a crib holding his sword.

 

With Birgitte, what I took that to mean was that the ones where she was younger than Gaidal were past lives and Moggy's interference meant that going forward, she'd still be linked to Gaidal but always older than him.

 

No, she saw A BABY in a crib holding a sword. Not necessarily Lan. I expect it is Lan's baby, and the Dai'shan ceremony will be repeated after Lan's death in the blight.

[Tom Sawyer]

No, it's pretty clear that that was Lan.

[kght22]

She seems to see the future and the past. For instance, when she saw Lan, she saw him as a baby in a crib holding his sword.

 

With Birgitte, what I took that to mean was that the ones where she was younger than Gaidal were past lives and Moggy's interference meant that going forward, she'd still be linked to Gaidal but always older than him.

 

No, she saw A BABY in a crib holding a sword. Not necessarily Lan. I expect it is Lan's baby, and the Dai'shan ceremony will be repeated after Lan's death in the blight.

No, it's pretty clear that that was Lan.

magical quote check request (i am insanely lazy)

[Eht Slat Meit]

She seems to see the future and the past. For instance, when she saw Lan, she saw him as a baby in a crib holding his sword.

 

With Birgitte, what I took that to mean was that the ones where she was younger than Gaidal were past lives and Moggy's interference meant that going forward, she'd still be linked to Gaidal but always older than him.

 

No, she saw A BABY in a crib holding a sword. Not necessarily Lan. I expect it is Lan's baby, and the Dai'shan ceremony will be repeated after Lan's death in the blight.

No, it's pretty clear that that was Lan.

magical quote check request (i am insanely lazy)

 

As requested:

 

"The War ... ah ... Master Andra has seven ruined towers around his head, and a babe in a cradle holding a sword, and ... " She shook her head. "Men like him – you understand? – always have so many images they crowd one another.

 

There's absolutely no context from Min saying that it is or is not Lan. Either she doesn't know, or she's not telling. Either way, there's not really clarity on the matter.

 

On the upside, if all her viewings are of the future, that means we should probably get a semi-epic tour of Lan and Lan's army through his Blight-stricken homeland. Can't say anything for his kid. Might be Nynaeve's or it might be the rebirth of the Malkieri nation.

[Luckers]

Jordan stated that Min's viewings are always about the future. That being said the baby could be metaphorical, indicating Lan's ongoing commitment to the Oath sworn in his name.

 

Or it could just be his kid.

[MatsLuck]

Did Jordan ever reveal, or is there any definitive proof about her viewing of Thom's man juggling fire? I had forgot about that till a recent listen through the audiobooks and figured it was about Owen. But that would definitely not be future.

[Finnssss22]

Jordan stated that Min's viewings are always about the future. That being said the baby could be metaphorical, indicating Lan's ongoing commitment to the Oath sworn in his name.

 

Or it could just be his kid.

 

 

Kind of have to wonder if a few "slipped" through in tEotW and RJ hadn't decided if Min's viewings were going to be future only yet.

 

Min's viewing of Mat with the Red Eagle seems to be more about past than future. Perrin has had a lot more to do with the Red Eagle and Manetheren than Mat has.

Also, the viewing of Thom seems to suggest his nephew.

 

Early bookism appears to be a real possibility.

[Eht Slat Meit]

Kind of have to wonder if a few "slipped" through in tEotW and RJ hadn't decided if Min's viewings were going to be future only yet.

 

Min's viewing of Mat with the Red Eagle seems to be more about past than future. Perrin has had a lot more to do with the Red Eagle and Manetheren than Mat has.

Also, the viewing of Thom seems to suggest his nephew.

 

In Mat's case, I almost want to chalk it up to a transposition error, since she's basically running an info-dump on Rand, going from one person's images to the next. Unless the red eagle is supposed to represent a majority of the memories that Mat got from the 'Finns?

 

As far as Thom goes, I'd chalk it up to pure metaphor. He spent the first several books "teaching" Mat and (mostly) Rand how to juggle fire in one sense of the word... surviving against darkfriends, playing at Daes Da'mar, his problems with the Power, basically providing the necessary advisory role that Rand wasn't willing to fully accept from Moiraine.

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, those particular images were a setup for Lan's character and the things we learnt about him later in the book. If Min does only see the future, then chalk that up to her powers not being fully defined during the first few chapters of the first book.

[randsc]

Ya, those particular images were a setup for Lan's character and the things we learnt about him later in the book. If Min does only see the future, then chalk that up to her powers not being fully defined during the first few chapters of the first book.

 

Or you were just wrong. One or the other.

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, those particular images were a setup for Lan's character and the things we learnt about him later in the book. If Min does only see the future, then chalk that up to her powers not being fully defined during the first few chapters of the first book.

 

Or you were just wrong. One or the other.

 

Ya, always possible (but generally unlikely - it doesn't happen very often). All the explanations about how they're visions of future events seem more ret-conned in than anything else.

[randsc]

Ya, those particular images were a setup for Lan's character and the things we learnt about him later in the book. If Min does only see the future, then chalk that up to her powers not being fully defined during the first few chapters of the first book.

 

Or you were just wrong. One or the other.

 

Ya, always possible (but generally unlikely - it doesn't happen very often). All the explanations about how they're visions of future events seem more ret-conned in than anything else.

 

Um, no. Just to you.

 

This is a situation where you remembered the passage incorrectly (i.e., it is not, by any means, "clear" that the infant is Lan), the language if the text itself is ambiguous, and the word of the author is unambiguous.

 

Jordan was guilty of quite of bit of making up explanations on the spot when asked about something, sometimes explanations that defied the plan black letter of the text. But that's not what we have here, since the text is at worst ambiguous, there are no other instances of Min seeing past events, and Jordan gave a non-ambiguous explanation.

 

You're just wrong. It's OK, I have been wrong myself, perhaps as many as three times.

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, there's no other instances of Min viewing past events. Hence the mistake. It was designed to flesh out Lan's character to give the "Aah" moment later on when the Borderland guy told Lan's backstory and gave meaning to those images.

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, there's no other instances of Min viewing past events. Hence the mistake. It was designed to flesh out Lan's character to give the "Aah" moment later on when the Borderland guy told Lan's backstory and gave meaning to those images.

[Luckers]

Did Jordan ever reveal, or is there any definitive proof about her viewing of Thom's man juggling fire? I had forgot about that till a recent listen through the audiobooks and figured it was about Owen. But that would definitely not be future.

 

I've actually always thought that that viewing referred to the role Thom will play in the future of the Black Tower--his desire to help men who can channel due to Owyn, combined with his political saavy, and his marriage to Moiraine who has already stated that she will help him get at the Aes Sedai responsible for the Vileness.