Fish can't teach birds to fly

[Rose]

Good point. Although, I suddenly can't remember- Can men see saidin weaves the same way women see saidar weaves? I think that's how Sorilea did it: she formed the weaves, and even though they were very weak (or something, I might not be using the right terminology here), Cadusane was able to watch and pick it up.

 

Oh and by the way, this is another reason why Semirhage making Rand weave saidin into a weave of her own seems like a feat. Women can't see saidin. But you need to see what you're doing in order to weave. Now I imagine if you've done a weave enough times, you barely need to think anymore, so you might be able to channel while blindfolded. But to learn a weave without ever seeing it is much harder. However Semirhage learned that weave, then, I suppose it was fairly similar to he saidar version, with only a slight tweak somewhere that she was able to add without having to study the thing in depth.

[Mulk]

Rand clearly could see the saidar he wove during the Cleansing. The quote is something along the lines of the tube he wove out of saidar didn't form anything like he expected it to. I think from that we can draw the conclusion that you can see what you weave, and further that the only time you can actually see the opposite half of the Source is when you are weaving it.

 

As to Semirhage - we are forgetting that in the Age of Legends, everything was highly scientific, well-practiced, and further that there were probably text books that described and diagrammed various weaves as an aid to studying. This is a thought on my part, not anything I have Jordan info to back up, but it seems logical.

 

Not saying that she would have seen exactly what she used with Rand in a textbook, mind. But to have the idea that a very advanced society that is able to fully train any and all channelers never thought to write down some of those things for easier study is rather preposterous. Things like - basic weave of air to hold an item or a person in place, basic weave of fire to start a controlled fire for cooking, and as you advanced you could see things like gateways, which I imagine were taught to everyone, even if they didn't have the strength, given their apparent comfort with linking. Very clearly, the shape of the weave plays an important part, so if the Age of Legends was indeed as advanced as Jordan and the people in Randland say it was, then there must have been books with some of that information written down, and I imagine the men read the women's texts and vice versa. That would easily explain how a woman could, in fact, aid a man in channeling. Clearly, Semirhage, Moghedien and Lanfear had knowledge of how at least some of the men's weaves functioned and were shaped, and I can't imagine that knowledge was limited to them. It will be interesting to see what knowledge LTT/Rand brings to his next fight with a woman channeler in light of this.

 

Edit: I imagine they also practiced linking as a matter of course, given that they recognized their greatest strength lay in working together. Which would give people more familiarity with the other side's way of doing things - in fact, you'd almost have to have a working knowledge of how it worked to do it effectively. In light of that, I would posit that part of the reason Rand could do what he did at the cleansing was because all he wove out of saidar was a tube. That can't be an advanced weave.

[mb]

The comments about birds & fish I interprete as these::

-Saidar channelers cannot teach saidin.

-Saidin channelers cannot teach saidar.

Both are true.

Congratulations on utterly ignoring the entire thread and responding in an utterly useless manner.

The comments you quoted seem related to this thread's title.

[Roxinos]

The comments you quoted seem related to this thread's title.

 

Yet they ignore the rest of the thread. They ignore the entire discussion which made your post nothing but redundant and useless. I'm not going to get into this anymore, it's off-topic and is just angry and mean.

 

It may well be different between men and women on this regard.

 

I doubt that it is, though, as Logain is perfectly able to copy weaves that Rand has performed. Rand is also able to see the residue of gateways and copy the weaves (though, that is more closely tied to a Talent). But both are indications that men are capable of seeing weaves in at least a copyable manner. Given Asmodean's personality, it seems much more likely that he was just stalling.

[Suttree]

Rand clearly could see the saidar he wove during the Cleansing. The quote is something along the lines of the tube he wove out of saidar didn't form anything like he expected it to. I think from that we can draw the conclusion that you can see what you weave, and further that the only time you can actually see the opposite half of the Source is when you are weaving it.

 

Here is the quote so everyone can see...

 

WH

The weave did not form at all as he expected it to. As if Saidar had a mind of it's own, the weave took on convolutions and spirals that made him think of a flower. There was noting to see, no grand weaves sweeping down from the sky. The Source lay at the at the heart of creation.

[mb]

"redundant and useless" I think would be better determined by the person who started the discussion.