Elaida: Villain or Victim?

[Xcorpyo001]

And about Hawkins. It wasn't only Ishy's fault. Bonwhin Meraighdin started the whole thing.

She was raised from the Red Ajah in FY 939, the same year as Guaire Amalasan declared himself as the Dragon Reborn

Her attempt at controlling Artur Hawkwing led to a nineteen-year-long siege of Tar Valon. Bonwhin was removed from power and replaced with Deane Aryman from the Blue Ajah. She was the last Amyrlin to be raised from the Red before Elaida.

 

Bonwhin does bear some responsibility in their disagreement over his army getting too close to Tar Valon true but that isn't what you said.

 

destroying empires(Artur Hawkwing's Empire) and plunging the entire world in over 100 years of constant war,

 

There were over fourty years from the time Bonwhin had issue with Hawkwing until Ishy's moves started to pull apart his reign. It wasn't until Ishy showed up in 973 that things started really going wrong. He forced out Hawkwings AS advisors in 974 and all the large blunders and extreme moves leading to the Empire falling apart happened during this time.

 

 

Is that in the guide? I usually follow the books.

 

“Only twice since the Breaking of the World has the Amyrlin Seat been stripped of stole and staff.”

 

“Tetsuan, who betrayed Manetheren for jealousy of Elisande’s powers, and Bonwhin, who tried to use Artur Hawkwing for a puppet to control the world and so nearly destroyed Tar Valon.”

Siuan, in TGH, chapter 5

 

 

Elaida’s mouth twisted. The Tower had often in its history been cautious of necessity—too many feared them, too many distrusted them—but it had never feared anything or anyone. Now, it feared.

 

She raised her eyes to the paintings. One consisted of three wooden panels depicting Bonwhin, the last Red to have been raised to the Amyrlin Seat, a thousand years before, and the reason no Red had worn the stole since. Until Elaida. Bonwhin, tall and proud, ordering Aes Sedai in their manipulations of Artur Hawkwing; Bonwhin, defiant, on the white walls of Tar Valon, under siege by Hawkwing’s forces; and Bonwhin, kneeling and humbled, before the Hall of the Tower as they stripped her of stole and staff for nearly destroying the Tower.

Elaida, FoH Prologue

 

Salidar. Birthplace of Deane Aryman, the Blue sister who had become Amyrlin after Bonwhin and had rescued the Tower from the ruin Bonwhin had poised it for. Salidar. One of the last places anyone would look for Aes Sedai, short of Amadicia itself.

Siuan, FoH, chapter 11

 

 

“That’s as may be,” Egwene said dryly. Deane was considered the White Tower’s savior, after Bonwhin’s disaster with Artur Hawkwing.

Egwene, CoT, chapter 30.

 

I think it was more than Hawking trespassing(although his armies were there to protect the WT and guard the False Dragon), and since Ishy didn't bragged about controlling her, it was her doing alone.

And again, only the Amyrlin is punished, not the ones that follow her orders, even if they know they are wrong.

This has always been the policy of the WT.

If she fails, still her. If she succeeds, build her a statue/palace/whatever.

[Suttree]

Is that in the guide? I usually follow the books.

 

Yes it is from the guide...the reason it is impossible to go by the book in this instance is we have none of the details surrounding their dispute and his actual relations with the WT. You are correct that Bonwhin had a feud with Hawkwing after his army got too close to TV, letting her pride drive her actions and was punished for it. We know that despite their issues he had a solid relationship with the WT from FY 954 on, in all that time there was only a five year split between the two.

 

BWB

In FY 954, he accepted an Aes Sedai advisor, Chowin Tsao of the Green Ajah. Rulers fighting him also still had advisors from Tar Valon, of course, but the White Tower had always maintained a public stance of neutrality, and it appears that he accepted this posture. Chowin Tsao is his advisor in a fragmentary letter reliably dated in FY 962, but another letter (probably FY 967, by internal evidence) states that "after five years the High King has reconciled with Tar Valon and agreed to accept once more a counselor from among the sisters."

 

Whatever the reason for the split, the reconciliation was wholehearted while it lasted. By FY 974 Hawkwing was making wide use of Aes Sedai throughout his empire. They held a number of positions of authority and responsibility, even serving as provincial governors.

 

During this time his rule was secure and despite rebellions their were no real threats to his empire. It wasn't until after Ishy showed up and poisoned him against AS and convinced him to lay siege to TV that the real blunders(Shara, Seanchan, Ishy brags about all this with his "dooms" speech) happened. He had twisted him to the point that he refused AS healing on his death bed. Shortly after Ishy shows up in 973

 

BWB

And then, in the autumn of FY 974, Hawkwing curtly dismissed not only his Aes Sedai advisor (name unknown), but all Aes Sedai holding posts within his realm. In the early spring of FY 975 he put a price on the head of any Aes Sedai who refused to renounce Tar Valon—though there is no credible evidence that he demanded they transfer allegiance to him. By the summer of that year, his generals had not only overrun all of Tar Valon's territory, but were laying siege to the city itself.

 

The reality of the situation is she was a terrible Amrylin and although Bonwhin was punished, it was largely because her actions were ineffective and the AS blamed the siege on her of TV on her. None of her actions led to Hawkwings downfall let alone the 100 year war.

[Mr Ares]

So, more holes in LPD's plan:

-they were weeks away from defeat, and they didn't aided in the only plan they had(bad or good).

Let us not forget that the only other plan on the table, LTT's, did not actually address that looming defeat. After all, all it does is remove Shai'tan from the equation - there are still those three generals and their offensives, still thousands of Chosen, hordes of Darkfriends and Shadowspawn. They can still break through, overrun the Light and then free Shai'tan (hell, among their number is one of those who broke Him free in the first place). So aside from the obvious problem of it resulting in every male channeler for the next few millennia going insane, it also doesn't really solve the problem of their imminent defeat. LTT just got really lucky, in being able to decapitate the Shadow's leadership in one fell blow - that wasn't a part of the plan. That power vacuum undoubtedly helped the forces of the Light eventually turn the tables, but bear in mind there were still decades of fighting before the Breaking forced them to abandon the war in favour of survival.

 

As for Elaida, she deposed Siuan due to her own desire for power. She was manipulated by Alviarin because she didn't want to lose that power. She was a fool, and her own flaws helped drag the Tower to the brink of the abyss.