Can Rand Change Existence?

[Dagon Thyne]

I know alot of people say that Rand is just a very powerful Ta'veren, and that he does not actually alter existence. For example, when he opened all of the sacks of grain in , his Ta'veren nature caused the odds of whether or not the grain was rotten to change so much that every sack taken out before he got there had been rotten and that every sack of graikn left of fresh and clean. Yes, that can be attributed to his being a Ta'veren. However, there are other times that he does not simply alter odds, but change nature itself. The apple tree at the beginning of The Gathering Storm, for example. The apples that had grown that season were shivled and rotten and the tree was done blossiming for the season, as a matter of fact, I think it may have been dead. The tree coming to life and being full of fresh, ripe, apples can not be called a result of his Ta'veren nature. Ta'veren only effect the odds of something that is POSSIBLE happening or not happening. It can not change nature or the physics of the world. The apples appearing in a matter of seconds was not possible so it was not a matter of him being Ta'veren. If, Rand did it, it points to him having some sort of power that is far beyong the aboility of the One Power, True Power, or the power of Ta'Veren

[Goldstar]

Actually, the thing with the apples was caused by the Dark One, either a bubble of evil, or a test of his own growing strength. The bubble seems more likely to me, however. Similar to the way that the clouds open up above him, or tea suddenly tastes good, Rand "repels" the Dark One's evil now. Then again, The Dragon is one with the land, I suppose.

[Terez]

Actually, the apples were caused by Rand's dark state pre-epiphany. Brandon has confirmed that.

[Dagon Thyne]

Actually, the thing with the apples was caused by the Dark One, either a bubble of evil, or a test of his own growing strength. The bubble seems more likely to me, however. Similar to the way that the clouds open up above him, or tea suddenly tastes good, Rand "repels" the Dark One's evil now. Then again, The Dragon is one with the land, I suppose.

 

 

The land being one with Rand is part of my point. That very idea points to the Chosen of Light having some link to creation. Kind of like the idea in Christianity about God being one with everything. RJ always got alot of his ideas from Christianity and I was thinking that Rand's link to the planet and nature could be some sign that he is actually an avatar of the creator.

[Terez]

This is actually taken from Arthurian Legend - the Fisher King.

[Guest PiotrekS]

And Arthurian Legend is highly influenced by, inter alia, Christianity and Celtic mythology.

 

The Fisher King has similarities with heroes from Celtic myths, but with Christ as well.

[Never]

How come so many people have so much knowledge of Arthurian legends? Asking out of interest, as I've hardly every met anyone who seems to have knowledge of them outside these forums.

[bsmnt23]

How come so many people have so much knowledge of Arthurian legends? Asking out of interest, as I've hardly every met anyone who seems to have knowledge of them outside these forums.

 

Speeking for myself, I took an "Authorian Legend" class in college. It was a lot of reading including the original Le Morte de Author by Sir Malory as well as some of the more memorable recent fictions. ...We also watched the Disney version, the Sword in the Stone. Despite being Disney its a pretty decent version of The Once and Future King by TS White.

 

There's a lot of source material out there if you want to do some self researching but it always seemed to me that each new author wanted to put his own twist on the story, making his own favorite character the protagonist. There are versions where Merlin is a druid, or a blacksmith, or a fable; versions where Morgan leFay is a sympethetic character, Lancelot is gay, Guineviere is a pagan, the Round Table is not even mentioned...so many versions. Seperating the chaff from the good is...subjective.

 

Happy reading!

[Terez]

How come so many people have so much knowledge of Arthurian legends? Asking out of interest, as I've hardly every met anyone who seems to have knowledge of them outside these forums.

I didn't know anything about it until WoT brought my attention that way. RJ seems most influenced by Malory but there are definitely some elements he's borrowed from much later versions of the story. And his favorite movie was Excalibur.

 

Many people know of Arthurian legend from Monty Python...or that TV show Merlin. A ton of sources out there.

 

And Arthurian Legend is highly influenced by, inter alia, Christianity and Celtic mythology.

 

The Fisher King has similarities with heroes from Celtic myths, but with Christ as well.

Sure, but the specific characteristics of the Fisher King that we see here are more subdued in other myths.

[FarShainMael]

How come so many people have so much knowledge of Arthurian legends? Asking out of interest, as I've hardly every met anyone who seems to have knowledge of them outside these forums.

 

Speeking for myself, I took an "Authorian Legend" class in college. It was a lot of reading including the original Le Morte de Author by Sir Malory as well as some of the more memorable recent fictions. ...We also watched the Disney version, the Sword in the Stone. Despite being Disney its a pretty decent version of The Once and Future King by TS White.

 

There's a lot of source material out there if you want to do some self researching but it always seemed to me that each new author wanted to put his own twist on the story, making his own favorite character the protagonist. There are versions where Merlin is a druid, or a blacksmith, or a fable; versions where Morgan leFay is a sympethetic character, Lancelot is gay, Guineviere is a pagan, the Round Table is not even mentioned...so many versions. Seperating the chaff from the good is...subjective.

 

Happy reading!

 

I can't imagine anyone in the UK who hasn't heard of King Arthur, he's THE cultural icon over here: the 'Once and Future King' who will return in Britain's hour of greatest need (or so sayeth the myth).

 

The 'Merlin' series on BBC TV is OK if you want to watch some fairly good fantastical thud and blunder, but bears as much relation to the 'true myth' as does an MP's expenses claim.

 

If you want to find out more about the 'true myth', here are some places to start:

 

http://www.thisisnorthcornwall.co.uk/king_arthur.html

 

Mentions that King Arthur was called 'duke of battles'. Dunno if he was lucky at gambling though..

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur

 

http://www.caerleon.net/history/arthur/

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/anglo_saxons/arthur_01.shtml

 

http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/arthur/index.html

 

Also, for a well-researched fictional treatment of the myth from (mostly) Merlin's PoV, try post #12 here. 'The Wicked Day' is the best treatment of Mordred I know.

[Never]

Wow, thanks :-)

 

 

I will not check any of these links though, although I appreciate the trouble of pulling them out for me. I'm not that into stuff like that, it just surprised me that people knew so much about it. Obviously, I knew about Merlin, Arthur, Excalibur etc, but not in depth.

 

I did think of Exalibur when I read the Dragon Reborn, but I never heard of Gawyn, Galad, Morgase, Elayne (using the spelling from the books as I'm to lazy to look it up on Wiki again.) Anyway, yeah, thanks :)

[FarShainMael]

No prob, at least it gives you an idea of just how much stuff there is about him!