Freedom or Security

[Erunion]

Interesting point, but is the pattern really being cruel? Or is it merely trying desperately trying to fix things that are being screwed up by the Dark One? Then, it's less the pattern is being unnecessarily cruel and more the pattern is in desperation mode, and using any means to achieve it's end (which, while not very nice, is better than all of existence being destroyed by the Dark One, imo).

[Mr Ares]

As an American, I do agree with the idea that individual freedom is paramount.

 

However, merely disagreeing with the idea of damane doesn't go far enough, imho. Everybody in Randland is a slave to the Pattern. Take Bridgette, for instance. Her soul can never be freed from the pattern, and every time she is given a chance at life, her mate has already been pre-selected. Looking at it from one perspective, the Pattern is forcing her to fall in love with Gaidal Cain against her will, the same with Min, Elayne, and Aviendha.

 

However, if you accept that the Pattern is the ultimate slave driver, than the Seanchan become far less repulsive. Slaves in their society can rise to high status, and it seems that the lives of the Blood are worse in some aspects than the slaves. Also, imho, male channelers pre-BT were treated far worse than damane. Both male and female channelers are treated worse in Sharad. Apprentice Wise Ones, Accepted, and nearly anyone in Seafolk society can be beaten, strapped, birched, etc. usually without the benefit of healing.

 

Overall, once I realized that the Pattern has enslaved everyone across multiple dimensions, the non-American ideas among the cultures became less repulsive to me, and then I could appreciate the story more.

The Pattern does not enslave everyone - it requires a general trend, a certain pattern, but the lives of most people will not be directly manhandled by the Pattern. They have free will. It is only where the Pattern needs to correct drift that it interferes. It is also blatantly untrue that Birgitte is forced to fall in love against her will - maybe her mate is always preselected, but she actually wants that mate. So the Pattern is forcing her to do what she would otherwise do... If you do not accept that the Pattern is the ultimate slave driver, so much as a governing force that of necessity must occasionally tread on the toes of the governed (might as well say that Americans are slaves to their own government) then the Seanchan become no less repulsive.

[FarShainMael]

Birgitte and GC are always the same souls but not the same persons. (See discussions elsewhere on this, eg. the Rand Sedai thread.) Is it souls that fall in love, or persons? If the former, then there is no compulsion; arguably those two souls have always been in love.

[Zentari]

Is it souls that fall in love, or persons? If the former, then there is no compulsion; arguably those two souls have always been in love.

In the sense that we have seen then no , there isn't.But if the universe itself sometimes takes an active hand I bet the lines would be pretty difficult to drawn on what is forced and what is not.

 

Personally , I don't think those two were forced by the pattern.

[Suttree]

I don't see non seanchan commoners hating them, in fact the books emphasize that tinkers, invaded folks and even Rand feel the seanchan are good rulers.

 

Rereading KoD and have found more instances aside from the Taraboners rebelling with Ituralde.

 

KoD As If the World Were Fog

I am that, Mat. I brought half the scouts, and I also signed some Altarans who were fighting the Seanchan.

 

So we have Taraboner and Altaran commoners rising up against the Seanchan. We also have Cadsuane speaking of the Dragon's plan for peace.

 

"Unpopular as I say," Cadsuane said firmly raising her voice...."ESPECIALLY in Tarabon, Amadacia, and Altara, but also elsewhere."