Timeparadoxes confuses me

[Puny]

Hello clever Balefirexperts!

 

Help me understand the bloody Balefire weave. I´ve never understood how burning a piece of a thread inpacts time. Say I have a weave, and I burn of a a thread, or a piece of a thread... wouldn´t the future me remember a gap cause there is a hole in the weave... why would you just go "back in time?" And while we are at it, in CoS I think, in that scene just before Nyn is almost hit by the balefire from Moggy (when she almost drowned) I remember reading something along these lines: From c 30 p 537, the first cup:

 

Pigeons! She nearly spewed the contents of her stomach across the roof. A glance at the river made her snarl. Because she had jerked, the balefire she meant to slice through cabin and passenger instead had sliced diagonally through the middle of the boat, about were the oarsmen had stood, and the bodyguards. Because the rowers had been burned out of the pattern before the balefire struck, the two halves of the craft were now a good hundred paces back up the river. Then again, perhaps it was not a complete disaster. Because the slice from the boat´s center had gone at the same time the boatmen realy died, the river had had minutes to rush in.

 

Oki, the balefire sliced through the middle, through the bodyguards and oarsmen. They are gone.. poff. How can then the rowers have been burned out of the pattern before the balefire struck... which rowers? =/

[UGAShadow]

The rowers stopped existing before the balefire hit. This is balefire's effect on the pattern. When it touches someone it actually burns their thread backwards. So they actually stopped existing BEFORE they are hit by it.

 

 

You can see this by the rowers (the ones rowing the boat) being burned by balefire. Lan says that the boat was ahead of them then suddenly behind them. The balefire caused the boat to be further behind because the men rowing the boat never did the rowing because they were dead.

 

 

 

 

Look at Rahvin's death. When Rand balefired him everything he did up to a certain place did not happen. Because he was dead before the balefire hit him.

[icspots]

When you're hit by balefire your thread (i.e. the thread of your life and things you've done) is burned backwards in time proportionally to how strong the balefire was. There's no time-travel per-say. Anything which you did in the timeframe that the BF burned no longer happened. A third person who witnessed whatever the balefiree had done prior to them being balefired would still remember those things because they saw them happen..... even though they never happened. ;) For instance Mat remembered a Dark Hound slavering saliva all over his arm even though he ended up with only a single drop. Asmodeon comments that he got enough looks from other people that he's figured out what happened (i.e. they saw him dead)

 

No when you're saying 'weave' and 'thread' are you talking about weaves and threads of the power? If so I can see why you're confused.

 

In the Moggy v Nynaeve case she killed the people rowing the boat with strong enough balefire that they had been dead for several minutes. Since they were dead for those minutes they weren't rowing the boat so the instant the rowers were struck by the BF the boat moved to where it would have been had it not been rowed for those minutes.

[Puny]

When you're hit by balefire your thread (i.e. the thread of your life and things you've done) is burned backwards in time proportionally to how strong the balefire was. There's no time-travel per-say. Anything which you did in the timeframe that the BF burned no longer happened. A third person who witnessed whatever the balefiree had done prior to them being balefired would still remember those things because they saw them happen..... even though they never happened. ;) For instance Mat remembered a Dark Hound slavering saliva all over his arm even though he ended up with only a single drop. Asmodeon comments that he got enough looks from other people that he's figured out what happened (i.e. they saw him dead)

 

No when you're saying 'weave' and 'thread' are you talking about weaves and threads of the power? If so I can see why you're confused.

 

In the Moggy v Nynaeve case she killed the people rowing the boat with strong enough balefire that they had been dead for several minutes. Since they were dead for those minutes they weren't rowing the boat so the instant the rowers were struck by the BF the boat moved to where it would have been had it not been rowed for those minutes.

 

Okies, now I understand the situation with the rowers. Thanks.

When I was speaking about thread... I was thinking on the life-thread and with the weave I meant the huge Pattern.. this may be a missconception on my part but I´ve always imagined all the lifes of the people as threads in the Weave. So when they speak of unravel the threads with balefire I can understand that because the more threads you unravel, the looser the Pattern will be until it unravels completely and is gone. But when you balefire one person out of the Pattern I always imagined it as you balefire just that thread at that certain spot... in other words.. the thread that is you AFTER the balefire incident would still be there... so you would have a future. If the thread is burned backwards... shouldn´t it be burned... forwards too? I might be overthinking this, sorry =P

[mb]

I kind of see each person's thread as continually growing. That growing would stop when the person dies. The thread beginning probably at conception and the thread "ending" at the present.

If the present is the thread's end, then balefire can only burn "backwards".

 

Though any death could probably "undo" any possible action.

[Puny]

I kind of see each person's thread as continually growing. That growing would stop when the person dies. The thread beginning probably at conception and the thread "ending" at the present.

If the present is the thread's end, then balefire can only burn "backwards".

 

Though any death could probably "undo" any possible action.

 

Hmm, seening it from that viewpoint makes more sense i.e. that threads can only be burned backwards by balefire. But shouldn´t the Pattern also be about the future. Cause if it is so that all threads are only made up up until the present... that would mean that the Pattern is being vowen every day with each action of everyone and with everyone being in the world. How can then people as the Wheel turns be "trapped" to do almost the same things again and again if the threads are being vowen as they live?

[PastorDeSemolaDeGranoDuro]

I kind of see each person's thread as continually growing. That growing would stop when the person dies. The thread beginning probably at conception and the thread "ending" at the present.

If the present is the thread's end, then balefire can only burn "backwards".

 

That would scientifically make sense as well, due to the cause and effect principle. There are not even any causes let alone effects, so there is nothing at all for the balefire to burn. The causes in the past are burned away, removing or changing the effects.

[yoniy0]

There's always the No, Balefire Does Not Work Like That thread you can look in - if reading pages upon pages of people arguing about it appeals to you, that is.

[Puny]

There's always the No, Balefire Does Not Work Like That thread you can look in - if reading pages upon pages of people arguing about it appeals to you, that is.

Although arguing can be fun I don´t think this will be one of them. Thanks yoniy0.

 

I must say that was a very good thread. The reason I was confused was because I saw balefire as a cause-effect and thus I thought it rewound time..sorta, but it doesn´t work that way. This quote highlights the thing I missed about reconciling paradoxes.

 

"Balefire doesn't cause time to go backwards and events to replay with that missing thread. This isn't like Back to the Future.

 

Rather, the thread is burned backwards and, in an instant, the pattern is forced to reconcile contradictions that exist as a result. "

[icspots]

 

Okies, now I understand the situation with the rowers. Thanks.

When I was speaking about thread... I was thinking on the life-thread and with the weave I meant the huge Pattern.. this may be a missconception on my part but I´ve always imagined all the lifes of the people as threads in the Weave. So when they speak of unravel the threads with balefire I can understand that because the more threads you unravel, the looser the Pattern will be until it unravels completely and is gone. But when you balefire one person out of the Pattern I always imagined it as you balefire just that thread at that certain spot... in other words.. the thread that is you AFTER the balefire incident would still be there... so you would have a future. If the thread is burned backwards... shouldn´t it be burned... forwards too? I might be overthinking this, sorry =P

 

 

No you're correct in that each person has a life-thread and those threads put together make up the Pattern. Where I was confused in what you were writing was you said "weave" which in this series generally refers to weaves of the power vs. the Pattern. It's all good.