Legends Discussion - Lews Therin Telamon

[Talmanes]

*finally getting around to posting here*

 

Ok to start from the beginning, I think Rand and Lews Therin exhibit a lot of the same traits. When LTT decided to go to the bore, I think it was somewhat out of desperation, and somewhat because he was having the whole 'I do what needs to be done.' thing like we've seen in Rand. He knew it was getting bad, and so he did what he thought was the right thing to do, no matter how dangerous. Rand has many times put himself in danger as well when he thought that it was necessary and the right thing to do.

 

After the fact, I think based on LTT's actions in the prologue and his thoughts in the back of Rand's head throughout the series, it is obvious he was completely shattered by what he did. He was in a deep state of grief and wanted to lash out and end it. I do think however that he was thinking enough to know he didn't want to hurt anyone else. He cared to some extent, or he would have just made Dragonmount right where he was standing. He wanted to run as well, which is reasonable, but he ran specifically to a remote area to destroy himself. He wanted to kill himself, not others. We see the not wanting to unnecessarily kill people trait in Rand as well, though that is somewhat just because of his upbringing.

 

As far as the Forsaken go, I think they're descriptions are fairly accurate likely as not. Of course they will be a bit biased, as most of them were not too fond of him, but he probably was an intolerable person to be around, always being the best with the Power etc. Like what has been said, even if you aren't corrupted by power, it makes it realyl easy to get arrogant and take your power for granted. I think LTT may have exhibited some of this, though I still don't think that was the underlying cause of trying to seal the Bore on his own (with the male channelers).

 

Now the thing about the women not coming being necessary, I'm not so sure. Most assume that it will be women and men sealing the Bore together, and it is also assumed by many that Callandor will have to be used, especially since there is only one Choedan Kal key left, and that leads me to believe that women are and were a necessary part. We'll never know if the addition of the women would have made it a success, or if the whole True Source would have just been Tainted, but honestly, it could just as well be either. If the tools to do it exist now with the right combination, then I find it hard to believe that they didn't then. I think the women not coming and therefore letting Saidin get tainted, was more of a 'explain the basis of the world' kind of thing, than a specific show of how it could have been worse.

[Smiley73]

@Talmanes

Where is this access key? Is this ne I may/ may not have heard about in Tarabon

Otherwise on LTT...

I've always thought LTT was seperate from Rand, mostly because of the fact that Rand is the Dragon Reborn, it makes sense to me that he should have LTT in his head,because he is the Dragon Reborn and therefore has some component of the Dragon.

In addition, LTT knows things that Rand does not, like Deathgates, Arrows of Fire, how to untie tied off weaves.

Now that Rand has had his epiphany he is now longer Rand Al thor with a voice in his head, he is well and truly the Dragon Reborn...

Hope everyone understood that...

[Talmanes]

Well when they cleansed the Taint he had both access keys, from Rhuidean, but the female one melted.

[Smiley73]

Yes, but unless there are more stashed away in a statis box somewhere, we are out of ways to use the Choedan Kal. Talking about statis boxes why has the Light side never found one (at least that we know of)

[Talmanes]

Well they don't know where to look or that they even exist. LTT Rand might I suppose, but he has never mentioned it.

[Puny]

I´ve always liked the Dragon, even when he was in his epic Dark mood... I do wish he would have killed someone close to him... anyways. I do think Rand is LTT reborn, as in the same soul, but not the same person. That´s why LTT is good at some things, for example drawing wereas Rand sucks at it. Rand when he got better at drawing internalized the ascpet of his soul that was LTT, and in doing that he became more aware of him. Since it´s kinda freaky to realize that you remember a different aspect of your soul Rand´s mind (not his soul) conconted a story separating the two (aka you are in my head, LTT, am I crazy).

 

We don´t have all records on how LTT was but I can´t imagine all the talk about him being arrogant and a pain in the @ss is all talk from the evil Forsaken. As we saw in the prologue he was living in a palace, had lots of servant, children and he was apparently happy and proud. When you are overly proud people then do shy away from you, don´t matter if you earned the right to be that pride. And we shouldn´t forget, people were people even back in the AoL. It wasn´t some kinda Shangri La.

 

What I find kinda unrealistic (but I understand it needed to happen plotwise) was that THE 100 companions were all men, common, not one little lady in that ajah, and all the women opposed them. Where did this unity genderwise come from, when they all worked together before the decision to close the Bore.

[Talmanes]

Well with that I think a lot of it was partially politics.

 

While there are people that would have agreed with the other group, the leaders of each were dead set in either direction, and there would have been a lot of pressure to 'agree' with the leaders. Therefore LTT, as leader of the men probably would be able to get 100 or so of them to come along with him just on the premise that he was the leader, even if they didn't all agree, whereas there would have been a lot more pressure on the women by their leaders to not go.

 

It was dead locked, and especially in two party politics, you commit political suicide if you go against your group on such and important issue, and if you are planning to do something reckless, like say go and attack Shayol Ghul, you probably wouldn't even try to recruit from the opposition for the mission.

 

That's just my spin on it, though I'm not really sure on how big or small a part politics played into things back in the Age of Legends. Honestly though, based on recent White Tower politics, and the Game of Houses we have now, I think politics would have been big in the Age of Legends as well.

 

Also I'm taking a bit of an assumption with the fact that the men and women were divided a bit, but based on the writing that they were in disagreement in two distinct parties, I took the certain degree of separation for granted.

 

I do agree that it still might be a tad of a stretch, but even if you look at modern day IRL politics, it really isn't that much of a stretch. When it's something big, especially here where it is literally the fate of the world, groups usually don't go against what the leaders want. It happens yes, but not nearly as much, which makes the events as written plausible and even likely in a lot of ways.

[CidV630]

Lews Therin may not have been overly arrogant at least not to the point of being say pompous or foolish I dont think he was anymore arrogant than any ruler would be...yes he lived in a palace with scores of servants but even the most down to earth rulers have the same and in the AOL he was probably the most powerful person in the world(in two ways!) since it seems that Aes Sedai were the ones controlling things in place of normal kings and queens as in the third age. Perhaps he didnt want all those servants and the huge palace maybe he would have preferred to live somewhere peaceful and quiet instead of having servants left and right but he wouldnt have any choice same as perrin or mat who both start out being horrified by the fact that they servants but eventually both grow to accept it.