A Demandred thread.

[yoniy0]

not necessarily. It likely means that he has people watching Rand and reporting to him. None of the others except for Moridin know where Demandred is stationed so they are clearly not assuming that he is watching Rand from up close personally.

Well, no, they really don't know where his power base is, but as I said before I don't think he could have been put in charge of a few DF's in Rand's vicinity. That's far too trivial a connection for him to be expected to know where Rand has disappeared to, especially when the other example we're given is a Forsaken pretending to be one of Rand's trusted lieutenants. Not to mention there seems to be no reason for Moridin to relinquish control of those DF (which are, after all, his network) if their job description was spying on Rand.

I think it far more likely that he personally has means of spying/keeping tabs on Rand that the others are aware of. Something similar to what Lanfear did TSR trough TFoH (well, perhaps not that personal; it's hard to imagine Rand conducting conversations with Demandred).

[Mongoose]

Taim was behind it for certain, but we're not sure where the plan originated. Moridin is the one who found the dreamspike, and we know that the plan for the Battle of Caemlyn began in TPOD at the latest, as that's when they started building the wall (which was impractical without the dreamspike).

 

I don't understand. What wall?

[Terez]

The wall around the Black Tower which is now trapping Pevara and Androl and the others inside. It's impractical for defense because anyone with the guts to attack the Asha'man has got to be an army of channelers, in which case a wall is just a minor inconvenience. It only serves a purpose with the dreamspike to keep those inside from escaping, and with enough Evil Asha'man in positions of authority to guard the perimeter.

[herid]

not necessarily. It likely means that he has people watching Rand and reporting to him. None of the others except for Moridin know where Demandred is stationed so they are clearly not assuming that he is watching Rand from up close personally.

Well, no, they really don't know where his power base is, but as I said before I don't think he could have been put in charge of a few DF's in Rand's vicinity. That's far too trivial a connection for him to be expected to know where Rand has disappeared to,

I disagree with that.

 

especially when the other example we're given is a Forsaken pretending to be one of Rand's trusted lieutenants. Not to mention there seems to be no reason for Moridin to relinquish control of those DF (which are, after all, his network) if their job description was spying on Rand.

not all Dfs answer directly to Moridin. Other Forsaken have their networks too which is mentioned often. one quote I gave above indicates that one of the Black Aes Sedai with Rand answers to Demandred and Mesaana.

I think it far more likely that he personally has means of spying/keeping tabs on Rand that the others are aware of. Something similar to what Lanfear did TSR trough TFoH (well, perhaps not that personal; it's hard to imagine Rand conducting conversations with Demandred).

I don't see any way for Demandred to spy on Rand personally, remain completely offscreen and have time to do all his other things. How would he possibly do it? I'm sure he is not doing it himself but via a proxy. He doesn't know any of the people who were with Rand at the cleansing and does not recognize Flinn. If he was operating close to Rand himself he'd certainly be better informed.

[yoniy0]

Of course all Darkfriends' services are available to any particular Forsaken (unless forbidden by the DO or his representative), and naturally few have developed a large network of servants among them. That doesn't change the fact that Moridin (as Ishamael) founded the entire network, and has demonstrated an ability to call on them at will (ala TGH prologue). Hence my expressed opinion that were it a simple matter of directing a DF spy, Moridin would've done so himself. The intermediary helps nothing, especially since it doesn't seem to be a full time job.

 

The manner in which Demandred's been watching Rand has to somehow play into his strengths, whatever it is. E.g. Lanfear used both her Talent at Dreaming and her relationship with Rand, Ishamael used his ability to track down ta'veren and his own Talent as a Dreamwalker, and Osan'gar used his Dashiva persona.

 

The others all spy on Rand themselves, naturally, via DF or people ignorant of their identities (Mesaana through the Tower's network, for example, and we know Sammael and Graendal spied on him too). But no one expects them to have any special insight into his location when he goes missing.

 

EDIT:

He doesn't know any of the people who were with Rand at the cleansing and does not recognize Flinn. If he was operating close to Rand himself he'd certainly be better informed.

Indeed. Note that of the methods I referenced above, only Osan'gar's would've assured his knowing Flinn. There are, after all, other ways of keeping tabs on Rand using a special talent which don't involve pretending to be someone in his immediate vicinity.

[Mongoose]

The wall around the Black Tower

 

Ohhh, right.

 

You know, I think where Demandred is and who he is posing as isn't really important.

 

I mean, I'm sure it's likely Danelle was mentioned previously, but when Mesaana's identity was revealed, it turned out she was no one special who I hadn't recalled being mentioned.

I mean it's clear he's in contact with some from the BT, it's supposed he's keeping an eye on Rand but not too closely, it's possible he's just hiding out somewhere like Graendal, though likely more covertly.

 

Also, I can't remember if a male channeller can identify another on sight the way women can, but if they can, it's likely Dem is either in the Tower itself where he wouldn't stand out too much (although with the conflicting statements on whether a man can sense how much another man can hold, his power would definately stand out, so actually he's probably not there, especially with the Spike up) or hiding under a rock somewhere and just doing everything through proxies.

[Terez]

We seem to be missing some context here:

 

"Where is he?" Demandred growled, clenching his fists behind his back. Standing with his feet apart, he was aware that he dominated the room. He always did. Even so, he wished Semirhage or Mesaana were present. Their alliance was delicate—a simple agreement that they would not turn on one another until the others had been eliminated—yet it had held all this time. Working together, they had unbalanced opponent after opponent, toppling many to their deaths or worse. But it was difficult for Semirhage to attend these meetings, and Mesaana had been shy, of late. If she was thinking of ending the alliance. . . . "Al'Thor has been seen in five cities, including that cursed place in the Waste, and a dozen towns since those blind fools—those idiots!– failed in Cairhien. And that only includes the reports we have! The Great Lord only knows what else is crawling toward us by horse, or sheep, or whatever else these savages can find to carry a message."

Perhaps Demandred is simply in charge of the spy network.

[herid]

The manner in which Demandred's been watching Rand has to somehow play into his strengths, whatever it is. E.g. Lanfear used both her Talent at Dreaming and her relationship with Rand, Ishamael used his ability to track down ta'veren and his own Talent as a Dreamwalker, and Osan'gar used his Dashiva persona.

you haven't suggested anything specific that Demandred might possibly be using to find Rand. His behavior in the quote below that Terez gives indicates that he has no special talents allowing him to track Rand. He pretty clearly has no special talents in TAR for example. I also doubt he has some particular skills for tracking ta'veren. There have never been any indications of that and the fact that he rages about not being able to find Rand speaks to the contrary.

The others all spy on Rand themselves, naturally, via DF or people ignorant of their identities (Mesaana through the Tower's network, for example, and we know Sammael and Graendal spied on him too). But no one expects them to have any special insight into his location when he goes missing.

That depends on who they are. If they are close to Rand then one could expect just that.

 

We seem to be missing some context here:

 

"Where is he?" Demandred growled, clenching his fists behind his back. Standing with his feet apart, he was aware that he dominated the room. He always did. Even so, he wished Semirhage or Mesaana were present. Their alliance was delicate—a simple agreement that they would not turn on one another until the others had been eliminated—yet it had held all this time. Working together, they had unbalanced opponent after opponent, toppling many to their deaths or worse. But it was difficult for Semirhage to attend these meetings, and Mesaana had been shy, of late. If she was thinking of ending the alliance. . . . "Al'Thor has been seen in five cities, including that cursed place in the Waste, and a dozen towns since those blind fools—those idiots!– failed in Cairhien. And that only includes the reports we have! The Great Lord only knows what else is crawling toward us by horse, or sheep, or whatever else these savages can find to carry a message."

Perhaps Demandred is simply in charge of the spy network.

good point.

[yoniy0]

That depends on who they are. If they are close to Rand then one could expect just that.

I was referring to the fact that Aran'gar only addressed Osan'gar and Demandred.