Trollocs and Male Channelers

[Kestrel]

Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't seen much discussion about this:

ToM, page 444, during the siege of Maradon:

“Lord Ituralde, Deepe said. The Asha’man never saluted Ituralde, just al’Thor.

“What is it?” Ituralde asked, scanning the hordes of Trollocs. They didn’t seem to have changed since he’d bedded down.

“Your man claims to be able to feel something,” Yoeli said. “Out there.”

“They have channelers, Lord Ituralde,” Deepe said. “I suspect at least six, perhaps more. Men, since I can feel the Power they’re wielding, doing something powerful. If I squint at the far camps, I think I can sometimes see the weaves, but it may be my imagination.

Ituralde cursed. “That’s what they’ve been waiting for.”

“What?” Yoeli asked.

“With Asha’man of their own—”

“They are not Asha’man,” Deepe said fervently.

“All right, then. With channelers of their own, they can tear this wall down easily as knocking over a pile of blocks, Yoeli. That sea of Trollocs will surge in and fill your streets.”

“Not as long as I stand,” Deepe said.

“I like determination in a soldier, Deepe,” Ituralde said, “but you look as exhausted as I feel.”

Deepe shot him a glare. His eyes were red from lack of sleep, and he clenched his teeth, the moscels in his face tense. He met Ituralde’s eyes, then took a long, forced breath.

“You are correct,” Deepe said. “But neither of us can do anything about that.” He raised his hand, doing something that Ituralde couldn’t see. A flash of red light appeared over his hand—the signal he used to draw the others to him. “Prepare your men, General, Captain. It will not be long. They cannot continue to hold that kind of power without … consequences.”

 

A few minutes later the enemy channelers vaporized a large portion of the Maradon city wall.

The Dark One has male channelers on his side, aiding the Trolloc armies.

 

Deepe says there are at least six, so they can't be the Forsaken; the only remaining male forsaken are Demandred and Moridin. Deepe believes they're not Asha'man either. I think he's right on that count; the Asha'man are either accounted for or they are trapped by a Dreamspike with Mazrim Taim at the Black Tower.

 

We've been speculating what the [blank] in the blight is. We've been trying to figure out the meaning of the encounter with red-veiled Aiel - who are men - in the Epilogue. And there has been some discussion about the fates of non-Asha'man male sparkers who may have escaped before their normal death sentence was carried out.

 

I suggest that all three of these are tied together - the Trollocs' channeling allies, the red-veiled Aiel, and the missing male sparkers.

 

The whole scenario makes sense. There's no way the Dark Lord would NOT have perverted male channelers fighting on his side at the Last Battle.

 

Unfortunately, the one element missing from al'Lan Mandragoran's army is channelers. Facing Trollocs and perverted male channelers both, his chances are not good. I hope he survives.

 

Thoughts?

[MasterAblar]

Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't seen much discussion about this:

ToM, page 444, during the siege of Maradon:

“Lord Ituralde, Deepe said. The Asha’man never saluted Ituralde, just al’Thor.

“What is it?” Ituralde asked, scanning the hordes of Trollocs. They didn’t seem to have changed since he’d bedded down.

“Your man claims to be able to feel something,” Yoeli said. “Out there.”

“They have channelers, Lord Ituralde,” Deepe said. “I suspect at least six, perhaps more. Men, since I can feel the Power they’re wielding, doing something powerful. If I squint at the far camps, I think I can sometimes see the weaves, but it may be my imagination.

Ituralde cursed. “That’s what they’ve been waiting for.”

“What?” Yoeli asked.

“With Asha’man of their own—”

“They are not Asha’man,” Deepe said fervently.

“All right, then. With channelers of their own, they can tear this wall down easily as knocking over a pile of blocks, Yoeli. That sea of Trollocs will surge in and fill your streets.”

“Not as long as I stand,” Deepe said.

“I like determination in a soldier, Deepe,” Ituralde said, “but you look as exhausted as I feel.”

Deepe shot him a glare. His eyes were red from lack of sleep, and he clenched his teeth, the moscels in his face tense. He met Ituralde’s eyes, then took a long, forced breath.

“You are correct,” Deepe said. “But neither of us can do anything about that.” He raised his hand, doing something that Ituralde couldn’t see. A flash of red light appeared over his hand—the signal he used to draw the others to him. “Prepare your men, General, Captain. It will not be long. They cannot continue to hold that kind of power without … consequences.”

 

A few minutes later the enemy channelers vaporized a large portion of the Maradon city wall.

The Dark One has male channelers on his side, aiding the Trolloc armies.

 

Deepe says there are at least six, so they can't be the Forsaken; the only remaining male forsaken are Demandred and Moridin. Deepe believes they're not Asha'man either. I think he's right on that count; the Asha'man are either accounted for or they are trapped by a Dreamspike with Mazrim Taim at the Black Tower.

 

We've been speculating what the [blank] in the blight is. We've been trying to figure out the meaning of the encounter with red-veiled Aiel - who are men - in the Epilogue. And there has been some discussion about the fates of non-Asha'man male sparkers who may have escaped before their normal death sentence was carried out.

 

I suggest that all three of these are tied together - the Trollocs' channeling allies, the red-veiled Aiel, and the missing male sparkers.

 

The whole scenario makes sense. There's no way the Dark Lord would NOT have perverted male channelers fighting on his side at the Last Battle.

 

Unfortunately, the one element missing from al'Lan Mandragoran's army is channelers. Facing Trollocs and perverted male channelers both, his chances are not good. I hope he survives.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think Deepe just meant that if they are serving the shadow then they have no right to be called asha'man. Sort of how Elayne fervently denied the captured black ajah being referred to as aes sedai. In any case I think there does not need to be a distinction made between men channelers sworn to the shadow who were trained at the BT and those that were not. They all serve the shadow. In any case I doubt that the shadow would risk Taim's cover being blown by sending channelers trained at the BT to help the trollocs. So they were probably male channelers trained outside the BT.

[muddymess]

Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't seen much discussion about this:

ToM, page 444, during the siege of Maradon:

“Lord Ituralde, Deepe said. The Asha’man never saluted Ituralde, just al’Thor.

“What is it?” Ituralde asked, scanning the hordes of Trollocs. They didn’t seem to have changed since he’d bedded down.

“Your man claims to be able to feel something,” Yoeli said. “Out there.”

“They have channelers, Lord Ituralde,” Deepe said. “I suspect at least six, perhaps more. Men, since I can feel the Power they’re wielding, doing something powerful. If I squint at the far camps, I think I can sometimes see the weaves, but it may be my imagination.

Ituralde cursed. “That’s what they’ve been waiting for.”

“What?” Yoeli asked.

“With Asha’man of their own—”

“They are not Asha’man,” Deepe said fervently.

“All right, then. With channelers of their own, they can tear this wall down easily as knocking over a pile of blocks, Yoeli. That sea of Trollocs will surge in and fill your streets.”

“Not as long as I stand,” Deepe said.

“I like determination in a soldier, Deepe,” Ituralde said, “but you look as exhausted as I feel.”

Deepe shot him a glare. His eyes were red from lack of sleep, and he clenched his teeth, the moscels in his face tense. He met Ituralde’s eyes, then took a long, forced breath.

“You are correct,” Deepe said. “But neither of us can do anything about that.” He raised his hand, doing something that Ituralde couldn’t see. A flash of red light appeared over his hand—the signal he used to draw the others to him. “Prepare your men, General, Captain. It will not be long. They cannot continue to hold that kind of power without … consequences.”

 

A few minutes later the enemy channelers vaporized a large portion of the Maradon city wall.

The Dark One has male channelers on his side, aiding the Trolloc armies.

 

Deepe says there are at least six, so they can't be the Forsaken; the only remaining male forsaken are Demandred and Moridin. Deepe believes they're not Asha'man either. I think he's right on that count; the Asha'man are either accounted for or they are trapped by a Dreamspike with Mazrim Taim at the Black Tower.

 

We've been speculating what the [blank] in the blight is. We've been trying to figure out the meaning of the encounter with red-veiled Aiel - who are men - in the Epilogue. And there has been some discussion about the fates of non-Asha'man male sparkers who may have escaped before their normal death sentence was carried out.

 

I suggest that all three of these are tied together - the Trollocs' channeling allies, the red-veiled Aiel, and the missing male sparkers.

 

The whole scenario makes sense. There's no way the Dark Lord would NOT have perverted male channelers fighting on his side at the Last Battle.

 

Unfortunately, the one element missing from al'Lan Mandragoran's army is channelers. Facing Trollocs and perverted male channelers both, his chances are not good. I hope he survives.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think Deepe just meant that if they are serving the shadow then they have no right to be called asha'man. Sort of how Elayne fervently denied the captured black ajah being referred to as aes sedai. In any case I think there does not need to be a distinction made between men channelers sworn to the shadow who were trained at the BT and those that were not. They all serve the shadow. In any case I doubt that the shadow would risk Taim's cover being blown by sending channelers trained at the BT to help the trollocs. So they were probably male channelers trained outside the BT.

I think you're right except for Taim not risking his cover. He has risked his cover with direct attacks on Rand, where he just named them deserters when they failed. He could easily have done the same here.

[Kestrel]

Ok, I just noticed the thread about male dreadlords at Maradon. Interesting discussion.

 

I'll leave this thread up anyway. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the red-veiled Aiel in the blight ARE perverted male channelers.

 

The attack of al'Lan Mandragoran reminds me of the poem, "The Charge of the Light Brigade" by Tennyson:

 

Half a league, half a league,

Half a league onward,

All in the valley of Death

Rode the six hundred.

"Forward, the Light Brigade!

"Charge for the guns!" he said:

Into the valley of Death

Rode the six hundred.

 

"Forward, the Light Brigade!"

Was there a man dismay'd?

Not tho' the soldier knew

Someone had blunder'd:

Theirs not to make reply,

Theirs not to reason why,

Theirs but to do and die:

Into the valley of Death

Rode the six hundred.

 

Cannon to right of them,

Cannon to left of them,

Cannon in front of them

Volley'd and thunder'd;

Storm'd at with shot and shell,

Boldly they rode and well,

Into the jaws of Death,

Into the mouth of Hell

Rode the six hundred.

 

Flash'd all their sabres bare,

Flash'd as they turn'd in air,

Sabring the gunners there,

Charging an army, while

All the world wonder'd:

Plunged in the battery-smoke

Right thro' the line they broke;

Cossack and Russian

Reel'd from the sabre stroke

Shatter'd and sunder'd.

Then they rode back, but not

Not the six hundred.

 

Cannon to right of them,

Cannon to left of them,

Cannon behind them

Volley'd and thunder'd;

Storm'd at with shot and shell,

While horse and hero fell,

They that had fought so well

Came thro' the jaws of Death

Back from the mouth of Hell,

All that was left of them,

Left of six hundred.

 

When can their glory fade?

O the wild charge they made!

All the world wondered.

Honor the charge they made,

Honor the Light Brigade,

Noble six hundred.

[KrisAnton]

At this point it is unlikely that Taim gives a rip as to what Rand thinks of him. He knows the Dreamspike keeps anyone from Travelling in and busting up the place Enforcer-style. I think there is a rift between those adarkfriends who serve the Shadow and wish to rule the world in the name of the Dark One, and those who seek to destroy the Pattern forever. Which of those fighting at Maradon serve the Shadow While hoping to have something to rule after the Last Battle has been won?

[Kestrel]

I think there is a rift between those adarkfriends who serve the Shadow and wish to rule the world in the name of the Dark One, and those who seek to destroy the Pattern forever. Which of those fighting at Maradon serve the Shadow While hoping to have something to rule after the Last Battle has been won?

The prophecies and viewings Min has reveal to us readers the Dark Lord's intent - to destroy the pattern. However, I haven't seen that fact made general knowledge amongst the Dark Lord's forces. There is nothing to be gained by any Randland people if the ultimate objective is the complete destruction of creation. The only survivor of that outcome is the Dark Lord, who would be finally free of his prison.

 

If that purpose was known by the Dark Lord's allies, we'd have a dark-side contingent knowingly engaging in a suicide mission on a global scale. No, to pursue such a suicide strategy one would HAVE to be mad, but then he'd also be uncontrollable.

[animals]

There's an army of corrupted Asha'man in the Blight.

 

Might be too simple, but that's the most logical explanation to me.

[Orderofolde]

Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't seen much discussion about this:

ToM, page 444, during the siege of Maradon:

“Lord Ituralde, Deepe said. The Asha’man never saluted Ituralde, just al’Thor.

“What is it?” Ituralde asked, scanning the hordes of Trollocs. They didn’t seem to have changed since he’d bedded down.

“Your man claims to be able to feel something,” Yoeli said. “Out there.”

“They have channelers, Lord Ituralde,” Deepe said. “I suspect at least six, perhaps more. Men, since I can feel the Power they’re wielding, doing something powerful. If I squint at the far camps, I think I can sometimes see the weaves, but it may be my imagination.

Ituralde cursed. “That’s what they’ve been waiting for.”

“What?” Yoeli asked.

“With Asha’man of their own—”

“They are not Asha’man,” Deepe said fervently.

“All right, then. With channelers of their own, they can tear this wall down easily as knocking over a pile of blocks, Yoeli. That sea of Trollocs will surge in and fill your streets.”

“Not as long as I stand,” Deepe said.

“I like determination in a soldier, Deepe,” Ituralde said, “but you look as exhausted as I feel.”

Deepe shot him a glare. His eyes were red from lack of sleep, and he clenched his teeth, the moscels in his face tense. He met Ituralde’s eyes, then took a long, forced breath.

“You are correct,” Deepe said. “But neither of us can do anything about that.” He raised his hand, doing something that Ituralde couldn’t see. A flash of red light appeared over his hand—the signal he used to draw the others to him. “Prepare your men, General, Captain. It will not be long. They cannot continue to hold that kind of power without … consequences.”

 

A few minutes later the enemy channelers vaporized a large portion of the Maradon city wall.

The Dark One has male channelers on his side, aiding the Trolloc armies.

 

Deepe says there are at least six, so they can't be the Forsaken; the only remaining male forsaken are Demandred and Moridin. Deepe believes they're not Asha'man either. I think he's right on that count; the Asha'man are either accounted for or they are trapped by a Dreamspike with Mazrim Taim at the Black Tower.

 

We've been speculating what the [blank] in the blight is. We've been trying to figure out the meaning of the encounter with red-veiled Aiel - who are men - in the Epilogue. And there has been some discussion about the fates of non-Asha'man male sparkers who may have escaped before their normal death sentence was carried out.

 

I suggest that all three of these are tied together - the Trollocs' channeling allies, the red-veiled Aiel, and the missing male sparkers.

 

The whole scenario makes sense. There's no way the Dark Lord would NOT have perverted male channelers fighting on his side at the Last Battle.

 

Unfortunately, the one element missing from al'Lan Mandragoran's army is channelers. Facing Trollocs and perverted male channelers both, his chances are not good. I hope he survives.

 

Thoughts?

It's exactly as you said, Lan's army is missing channelers. What group of channelers do we have that we can insert to save the day? Logain and his cohort! Rand promised Nyn that he would send aid to Lan. Lan's already made his charge, insert Logain, forces of light put foot to Trolloc @$$, then surge forth to reclaim Malkier. (Nyneave on passing through the arches to become accepted saw Malkier whole, had kids, had Lan, etc., even if it was a close otherworld the rings took her to, switching her for herself of there for a time, it's not reality, but it is a reality. Not to mention the Ashamen can rebuild the Seven Towers and Malkier's Borderland Walls in like a day or two. I myself doubt the reality of that, but then again as in Veins of Gold in TGS, Rand realizes that it is all about a second chance, to put right what went wrong before, both the bore and the backlash and the Breaking that ensued.