Callandor

[AdamPollard]

Towards the end of TGH When Liandrin turns Egwene over to the Seanchan she emphasizes that Egwene and Nynaeve must be collared and taken across the aryth ocean. Then a couple chapters later when Rand is doing his dream thing with Ba'alzamon, B says

 

"They will not save you, those who might save you will be carried far across the Aryth Ocean. If you ever see them again, they will be collared slaves, and they will destroy you for their new masters."

 

This shows that the Shadow has a vested interest in keeping these two girls as far from Rand and Tarmon Gaiden as they can. To me this is a big clue that nynaeve and Egwene will be the two that link with Rand to use Callandor.

[Pygmalion79]

Towards the end of TGH When Liandrin turns Egwene over to the Seanchan she emphasizes that Egwene and Nynaeve must be collared and taken across the aryth ocean. Then a couple chapters later when Rand is doing his dream thing with Ba'alzamon, B says

 

"They will not save you, those who might save you will be carried far across the Aryth Ocean. If you ever see them again, they will be collared slaves, and they will destroy you for their new masters."

 

This shows that the Shadow has a vested interest in keeping these two girls as far from Rand and Tarmon Gaiden as they can. To me this is a big clue that nynaeve and Egwene will be the two that link with Rand to use Callandor.

 

That's an interesting catch, but I don't see any specific reference to Callandor there, and there are other ways in which Rand needs both of them: Nynaeve to cleanse the taint, for example, and Egwene to ensure that the White Tower doesn't operate out of a *completely* retrograde view of the Dragon (to see Rand as "Rand" and not just "The Dragon Reborn"). And it all depends upon the assumption that Ishamael knows who needs to wield Callandor for the Light to win, which is possible but unproven. Still. . .it would be interesting if it turned out to be true. But I just don't get the feeling that Egwene will wield Callandor with Rand. I still like the Nynaeve / Moiraine / Rand theory.

[AdamPollard]

I believe in one of the past two books that Rand said he wanted nynaeve to be one of the women that would wield callandor with him, and when i was re-reading TGh and caught that it just seems like classic RJ foreshadowing to me

[Pygmalion79]

classic RJ foreshadowing to me

True. It would also give Egwene something more useful to do for Tarmon'Gaidon than politicking.

[Asha’man Hall]

I think nynaeve will be one of the two to use callandor with rand at the last battle, because he asked her to be there with him. But as to who the other is there alot of people that it could be. I dont think it will be Egwene because she wants to stop him from going to break open the seals, But what about women min had a viewing about i cant remember her name, but min said she was going to help rand die.

[herid]

Towards the end of TGH When Liandrin turns Egwene over to the Seanchan she emphasizes that Egwene and Nynaeve must be collared and taken across the aryth ocean. Then a couple chapters later when Rand is doing his dream thing with Ba'alzamon, B says

 

"They will not save you, those who might save you will be carried far across the Aryth Ocean. If you ever see them again, they will be collared slaves, and they will destroy you for their new masters."

 

This shows that the Shadow has a vested interest in keeping these two girls as far from Rand and Tarmon Gaiden as they can. To me this is a big clue that nynaeve and Egwene will be the two that link with Rand to use Callandor.

This is a very interesting observation but I agree with Pygmalion, I don't think it refers to using Callandor. At least there is no reason to think it does. There can be so many other ways Nyn and Egwene might save Rand. For example, there is a theory out there that Rand will die and be resurrected by pushing him back from TAR into the real world the way Moggy did with Birgitte. Nynaeve and Egwene are prime candidate to assist in this. Egwene is a dreamwalker and Nynaeve saw Moggy do it so she should know the weaves.

Also, helping Rand use Callandor to fight the DO is not actually saving him. This may be semantics but I don't think it fits very well.

 

But your observation is still quite interesting especially when you consider that Liandrin was ordered to kidnap Nynaeve and Egwene, but not Elayne. Why is that? Elayne becomes very important to Rand later and Nynaeve and Egwene at this point are just two village girls. So why them but not her? what exactly did Ishy know and how did he know it?

[chinnma]

I think nynaeve will be one of the two to use callandor with rand at the last battle, because he asked her to be there with him. But as to who the other is there alot of people that it could be. I dont think it will be Egwene because she wants to stop him from going to break open the seals, But what about women min had a viewing about i cant remember her name, but min said she was going to help rand die.

 

Thats Alivia. I suppose weilding callandor would be one way to fulfill that prophesy, but I think she will have a bit more of a direct role.

[Pygmalion79]

But your observation is still quite interesting especially when you consider that Liandrin was ordered to kidnap Nynaeve and Egwene, but not Elayne. Why is that?

It is interesting, but I seem to recall Liandrin saying something when Elayne arrives with the other two about how they had had other plans for her, which in what we learn of the aftermath implies that they were probably going to murder her along with the other sisters they killed that night. In any case, they weren't leaving her entirely alone. Another question that this raises, though, is why they wanted Nynaeve and Egwene to become damane, but they wanted Elayne murdered?

[Cutlass]

I'm not certain that Rand will "use" callandor himself - I am sure it will be part of the LB - but I think its very possible that someone else (Logain? Narishma?) may use it linked with Moraine and Alivia. (I think Nynaeve may be off soemwhere else - saving Lan? or tied up on some convoluted plan of Egwene's) I think the Dragon will be used to seal (or recreate) the DO's prison and that his death will be the "final lock" - he does have to die to live iirc, and Alivia has to aid in that death. Mo is comming back from the ToG with all the info he needs to put the plan in action.

 

And as for him to live... I don't really like the transmigartion theories out there (I think it would be weak to end the series like that with Rand in Moridin's body) but, if he has to come back - the theory that he is pulled from TaR by Nynaeve would best fit. I'm sure there is some way the fortelling of three women on a boat taking his broken body somewhere could be worked in...perhaps his 3 lady loves boating him to Nyn in Tar Valon?

 

Needless to say waiting another year is going to be painful - c'mon aMoL!!

[herid]

But your observation is still quite interesting especially when you consider that Liandrin was ordered to kidnap Nynaeve and Egwene, but not Elayne. Why is that?

It is interesting, but I seem to recall Liandrin saying something when Elayne arrives with the other two about how they had had other plans for her, which in what we learn of the aftermath implies that they were probably going to murder her along with the other sisters they killed that night. In any case, they weren't leaving her entirely alone. Another question that this raises, though, is why they wanted Nynaeve and Egwene to become damane, but they wanted Elayne murdered?

 

I think Liandrin was planning to kill Elayne and Min because they were witnesses and friends of Nynaeve and Egwene.

 

Liandrin peered at Elayne and Min. The late afternoon sunlight, slanting through the branches, shadowed their faces beneath the hoods of their cloaks. “So,” she said finally, still watching those two. “I had made arrangements for you to be taken care of, but as you are here, you are here. Four can make this journey as well as two.”

 

“Taken care of, Liandrin Sedai?” Elayne said. “I do not understand.”

 

“Child, you and that other are known as friends of these two. Do you not think there are those who would question you when they are found to be gone? Do you believe the Black Ajah would be gentle with you just because you are heir to a throne? Had you remained in the White Tower, you might not have lived the night.” That silenced them all for a moment, but Liandrin wheeled her horse and called, “Follow me!”

 

 

Liandrin did not think Elayne important otherwise. She says so to Suroth.

 

“You must find the woman Nynaeve,” Liandrin said sharply. “Elayne is of no importance, but both the woman and this girl here must be taken with you on your ships when you sail.”

[Pygmalion79]

I think Liandrin was planning to kill Elayne and Min because they were witnesses and friends of Nynaeve and Egwene.

 

...

 

Liandrin did not think Elayne important otherwise. She says so to Suroth.

I made this somewhat unclear, but what I was really asking was why give Egwene and Nynaeve to the Seanchan? Why not kill them, too? Someone -- Ishamael? Mesaana? Lanfear? Semirage? -- must have seen a reason for making them damane, some advantage that made it worth not simply killing them.

 

The only thing I can think of offhand is that someone thought that it would destabilize Rand and push him further toward madness and despair and possibly turning to the Shadow if he had to fight against them. We saw what happened after the incident with Semirage and Min. But that's just speculation on my part.

[herid]

I think Liandrin was planning to kill Elayne and Min because they were witnesses and friends of Nynaeve and Egwene.

 

...

 

Liandrin did not think Elayne important otherwise. She says so to Suroth.

I made this somewhat unclear, but what I was really asking was why give Egwene and Nynaeve to the Seanchan? Why not kill them, too? Someone -- Ishamael? Mesaana? Lanfear? Semirage? -- must have seen a reason for making them damane, some advantage that made it worth not simply killing them.

 

sorry, I misunderstood your question earlier. I don't have an answer for that one. Perhaps Ishy (I think he was the one behind their kidnapping) wanted to use them later for something.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Outside the possible foreshadowing of the noted quote, I could see it happening that Egwene would be the third in the "Crystal Sword, party of three?" scene...

 

Mostly because her adeptness at weaving so many different weaves at once has been expressed on occasion. Granted folks probably want to see somebody else, like a Moiraine or whoever does it for them. Eggy's skill set just sorta stands out to me for that undertaking, as I assume there's going to be a whole lot of weaving going on at the time.

 

[OptimusPrime]

I think this was Ishamael trying to force Rand to fight the Seanchan. He knows Rand and Lews Therin enough to know that women are their weak point, and that the Seanchan are a big asset, so he tries to have the two women from Rands home village used by the Seanchan as a'dam.

 

Simply killing them would be a blow, yes. But from Ishamaels PoV, if that blow was seen to come from the Seanchan in Rands eyes, then the payoff for the Shadow would be double. The Light would lose two great channelers, and the Dragon would hate the Seanchan.