Which two Aes Sedai will Mat choose between?

[Mr Ares]

Who else could it possibly refer to (I refer back to my last post on Teslyn/Joline and Egwene/Rand)

We don't know what is to come. Maybe Egwene and Moiraine will have some sort of showdown in the last book, and Mat must choose between them. There could be ny number of hypothetical solutions. But really, this doesn't fit. If this was meant to be the fulfillment, RJ, BS and Harriet all dropped the ball. What was prophesied and what happened do not match up. I will give them the benefit of the doubt - this was not that prophecy.

I'll concede that point, and I assume that we can agree on it either being M/V (and then not being the best written fulfilment) or one yet to come.

Yes, that seems reasonable.

 

 

IT'S OBVIOUS that the two AS are verrin and Moiraine.

 

Matt (though the word "weighing" isn't used, mat literally looks at the letter of verins before he says "We leave tomorrow."

 

It's not blatant, but it is quite obvious.

What a compelling argument. It completely addresses all the points made against V/M. It might be obvious to you, but it is not obvious to everyone else, we have pages of discussion on the matter of who it is. It is arrogant to say "obviously it is this, Mat looked at a letter" and think that settles it.

 

 

fiction writers are somewhat devious but not always original. I mean, who didn't read the first book of TSOIAF (It was originally TSOFAI) and as Ned tried to shout out the one truth he never told NOT know about the nature of Jon's birth?

I'm not sure what your source is for a name change in ASoIaF, you are the only person I've ever heard make that claim (and I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring it up). And a lot of people didn't pick up R+L=J (I assume that's what you're referring to?) on first read. Last I heard, even though it was the most popular theory it wasn't universally accepted - both Wylla and Ashara Dayne had their supporters.

 

but Jordan DID change stories, though I hear he was a lot more adamant after he got the 4 book deal after TDR (I think it was after TDR) that he focused on a cohesive plot for his saga.

The first contract RJ signed for WoT was for six books. This is according to RJ's own statements on the matter, so I'm assuming he knows. I again have to wonder at where you get your information?

[Mandro]

Who else could it possibly refer to (I refer back to my last post on Teslyn/Joline and Egwene/Rand)

We don't know what is to come. Maybe Egwene and Moiraine will have some sort of showdown in the last book, and Mat must choose between them. There could be ny number of hypothetical solutions. But really, this doesn't fit. If this was meant to be the fulfillment, RJ, BS and Harriet all dropped the ball. What was prophesied and what happened do not match up. I will give them the benefit of the doubt - this was not that prophecy.

I'll concede that point, and I assume that we can agree on it either being M/V (and then not being the best written fulfilment) or one yet to come.

Yes, that seems reasonable.

 

 

IT'S OBVIOUS that the two AS are verrin and Moiraine.

 

Matt (though the word "weighing" isn't used, mat literally looks at the letter of verins before he says "We leave tomorrow."

 

It's not blatant, but it is quite obvious.

What a compelling argument. It completely addresses all the points made against V/M. It might be obvious to you, but it is not obvious to everyone else, we have pages of discussion on the matter of who it is. It is arrogant to say "obviously it is this, Mat looked at a letter" and think that settles it.

 

 

fiction writers are somewhat devious but not always original. I mean, who didn't read the first book of TSOIAF (It was originally TSOFAI) and as Ned tried to shout out the one truth he never told NOT know about the nature of Jon's birth?

I'm not sure what your source is for a name change in ASoIaF, you are the only person I've ever heard make that claim (and I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring it up). And a lot of people didn't pick up R+L=J (I assume that's what you're referring to?) on first read. Last I heard, even though it was the most popular theory it wasn't universally accepted - both Wylla and Ashara Dayne had their supporters.

 

but Jordan DID change stories, though I hear he was a lot more adamant after he got the 4 book deal after TDR (I think it was after TDR) that he focused on a cohesive plot for his saga.

The first contract RJ signed for WoT was for six books. This is according to RJ's own statements on the matter, so I'm assuming he knows. I again have to wonder at where you get your information?

 

I trust ya. I heard it was 1, then 3, then 6, and then open ended, but I haven't taken part in forums like this for almost 2 decades.

[Wheel of Thyme]

Hello all. I don't know why it is believed by so many that Mat could have opened that letter, did what it said, AND saved Moiraine. Assume for a moment that Mat HAD opened that letter, and duly informed Elayne that a trolloc horde was going to descend on Caemlyn. Do you really think she would have ALLOWED Mat to leave? "Elayne, your nations going to be invaded by Shadowspawn, but Im off to the Tower of Ghenji where I may well die, and if I don't, well, I have no idea when I will be back...see ya around". Her reaction would NOT have been a pleasant one; shed have INSISTED that the Band of the Red Hands COMMANDER stay and fight. So...no rescue, and as Min stated, without Moiraine, Rand is doomed.

[Mr Ares]

So Elayne is alerted that the army of Shadowspawn is coming through the Ways (she allows him to go despite already knowing of a planned invasion). If she wishes to destroy the Waygate, as Verin suggests, or simply Ward it (if it isn't already), then Mat can't do anything of use. If she just wants to stick guards on there and make a fight of it, Mat's military genius is hardly needed. Elayne has no reason to stop him going, Talmanes can manage. And even if Elayne did want to stop him, just say tell her it's a rescue mission - for a fellow AS. Either of them should be enough to convince her to let him go. Stopping him going would be quite out of character for Elayne under those circumstances.

[haloun]

there is a way it could have been save caemlyn means not saving moiraine. elayne probably would have been fine with destroying the waygate in caemlyn, but there is another waygate OUTSIDE caemlyn that the shadow knows about, has used in the past, mat knows ABOUT it, but only the shadow knows its location, moiraine states that she is unsure of its whereabouts, in teotw, she also states that there are trollocs surrounding the city, and they used said waygate, so ten days, later when he opens the letter, he then takes ten more days to get to elayne, at the least, he only saw her a couple of days before going to the tog, because she got him to perrin, who then got him to tog. anyways, that leaves ten days at the most to search and locate way gate number 2 outside somewhere in the country side, and no one is sure where. more than likely only 3 or 4 days, thereby greatly increasing mats risk of being there when a full force of 100,000 trollocs or however many there are descend on caemly as a black swarm as opposed to slowly coming through the way gate in caemlyn 2 or three at a time, yes that still leaves about 3600 as stated before, but 3600 is a lot easier to deal with especially when you can find the waygate and cut them off as they come out of it. so yes the decision is between moiraine and verin. because elayne has that moron idiot for a clerk who wont listen to anyone who claims that the queen who has been out and about adventuring for a while, owes him a favor.

[Mr Ares]

Elayne knew an army was coming, but still let Mat go. He is not vital for any defence. As for searching for a new Waygate, if such a thing was felt necessary, it could be done without Mat - just ask Talmanes to do it. Opening the letter does not lead to any loss of time, given the information we have.

[Annia]

First of all, Mat couldn't possibly have consided the world in this issue, because he thought he was trying to decide whether to open a letter. It is really irrelevant whether Mat would have been able to go to rescue Moiraine at all, if he knew Caemlyn was going to be attacked. I believe he wouldn't have had time to rescue Moiraine, since he didn't have a clue when the attack was going to be. But as I said, this is completely a matter of no importance.

 

Mat had decided to go rescue Moiraine because of a letter Moiraine had written to Thom. He considered Moiraine such a priority that he chose not to trust Verin, when she stated that he would not find the task demanded of him very arduos. He did not know if the letter would have contained something of equal importance than Moiraine's letter did, but this is not the point, since he chose to follow the instructions given in Moiraine's letter.

 

The dream did not say that Mat was consiously deciding the fate of the world by picking an Aes Sedai to follow. It simply said that he made a cchoice between them and that this choice had so important consequenses that the fate of the world itself would depend on it. Mat chose to trust that Moiraine knew what she was talking about in her letter, and chose not to trust Verin not to be a bitch trying to mess with him. To me this is as clear is it could be.

 

From this we can assume that the fate of the world is not dependant of Mat being in Caemlyn when the trollocks came. It is dependent on Moiraine giving Rand some help that no one else can give. I'm hoping that Caemlyn will survive the attack, but whether it does or not does not decide the fate of the world. His decision to go save her no matter what, not even risking that something Verin might have to say might force him to cancel to trip fulfils the Dream quite nicely for me.

 

Verin could have easily asked Mat to give the letter to Elayne if he chose not to open it. If she hadn't thought that messing with Mat's head was more important than saving Caemlyn, we wouldn't need argue about it. That wouldn't have violated her Oaths any more than giving it to Mat since she would have been dead at the time.

[csharris]

On a lighter note for a minute.

 

You want to know the absolute best way to deal with the waygate in Caemlyn? Destroy it? Nah, just tie off a gateway in front of it and kill a few shadowspawn.