Mesaana in aMoL?

[Wolf505]

yes but I dont think the majority of AS know BF, and plus this is WoT with no data sharing, especially when its important. They make CSIS look openmouthed

 

Indeed. In fact, that's been a major plot point, what with Travelling and all. None of the three Aes Sedai with Mat knew that weave, not even Edesina, who was a rebel and could've gotten it from Elayne and Nyneave's crew. For that matter there's no indication that Verin taught them the weave when she took the Band from the mountains to Caemlyn since they rode horses to Tar Valon. Even if they weren't strong enough to form a gateway, they could've linked and done it. Add to all that the fact that Balefire is a forbidden weave and it's doubtful many know it.

 

As for Mesaana, the SMART thing to do would be to put her on trial then still her and execute her despite her condition. Does that mean that's what they'll do? Of course not. Some yellow will probably figure out how to cure her by accident then she'll go on a rampage through the tower or something. I've long since stopped trusting the Tower Aes Sedai to do the smart thing.

 

The epic smackdown to Egwene's ego when she realizes there's no way she can bully Rand into not breaking the seals will be awesome. If she was smart she'd realize he HAS all the seals and could easily just smash them to bits at any time and there's not a damn thing the high and mighty Amyrlin Seat can do about it. I'm betting once Rand says his piece every single ruler there will agree with him, leaving Egwene sputtering in indignation. That and I hope she actually has more of an extended conversation with Rand and realizes he knows more about the Power then the entire White Tower put together. I've been hotly anticipating that since Rand's "Rand Sedai" conversation with Cadsuane. That could be more entertaining then the grand finale itself!

[moratcorlm]

Indeed. In fact, that's been a major plot point, what with Travelling and all. None of the three Aes Sedai with Mat knew that weave, not even Edesina, who was a rebel and could've gotten it from Elayne and Nyneave's crew.

Edesina was dispatched to Tarabon in LOC15; Egwene only discovers Traveling in LOC37 (technically she first uses it in LOC34). Edesina does not interact with the rebel embassy to Ebou Dar, either; she only arrives with Tuon and the Return.

[Sentinel78]

... For that matter there's no indication that Verin taught them the weave when she took the Band from the mountains to Caemlyn since they rode horses to Tar Valon. Even if they weren't strong enough to form a gateway, they could've linked and done it...

 

That bothered me too. If Verin made the weave when they weren't around they wouldn't be able to figure out how to make it unless they had the Talent for reading-weaves right? But still, they'd be VERY interested to know how to Travel, and Verin had to make another Gateway afterwards to go to Tar Valon or wherever she was headed next with her letters.

[ranjitb]

Aside : I would have to imagine that both Joline and Teslyn are gateway-strong on their own. I can't offer proof, but they WERE both Sitters in the Hall, neither of them being considered an "odd choice", and it's unlikely that a "weak" Sister would be raised so high by her Ajah. We know that Alanna/Verin level seems to be baseline level required for forming gateways, and both of those are considered only average in strength.

 

Back on topic : I think Mesaana's story is done for two reasons - one, rooting out BA and taking down their leader has been E'AV's greatest contribution to date, and I find it unlikely that this will be taken away from her. Her single handed dismantling of a forsaken serves as more evidence of how *AWESOME* she is and that must stand.

Second reason - we are already at Part III of what was supposed to be a single book, and STILL have Ishmael, Lanfear, Moghedien, Demandred, and Grandael to deal with, plus whatever the hell Taim is. There just isn't time to resurrect an ended plotline which would serve no purpose at all. After all, the *WHITE TOWER IN PERIL* tension is already accounted for by the impending Seanchan attack.

 

But I said the same thing to the "Grandael is secretly alive" theory so what do I know.

[wireguy]

If breaking the mind trap has essentially the same affect as the condition that Messy is currently in it leads me to believe that the mind needs to be intact for connection between the body and the cour'sourva to be useful. From Moggy's pov when she sank the boat Ny was on I concluded that a mind trapped person still made their own choices and had the option of not doing their assigned task at the risk of having their mind destroyed. I never got the impression that Moridin was at the wheel and controlling her actions directly.

[fikkie77]

All Aes Sedai present with Nynaeve's testing for the shawl know the weave for balefire if they didn't already (I believe Egwene saw Moiraine weave balefire against darkhounds in the Waste).

Though I doubt that Rand whispered in an Aes Sedai's ear that only balefire permanently kills off the Forsaken. I do doubt that ressurrection would help Messy. Ressurrecting her might not heal the damage to her broken mind (just like it didn't heal Cyndane's lost ability in Saidar).

[moratcorlm]

All Aes Sedai present with Nynaeve's testing for the shawl know the weave for balefire if they didn't already (I believe Egwene saw Moiraine weave balefire against darkhounds in the Waste).

Though I doubt that Rand whispered in an Aes Sedai's ear that only balefire permanently kills off the Forsaken.

Moiraine only used balefire against Darkhounds in TDR, in Illian; Rand was the one who balefired the Darkhounds in Rhuidean. Egwene did see Nynaeve use balefire, though, also in TDR; whether she remembered the weave is uncertain, but she knew what it looked like. The Sitters certainly also recognized what Nynaeve did, but whether they knew... the weave obviously has remained alive among some Aes Sedai through the years.

 

As for Rand whispering in an Aes Sedai's ear, he said this:

“That is the weave we must use when fighting Forsaken, Narishma,” al’Thor said, his quiet voice cutting straight through Cadsuane’s. “If we kill them with anything else, they can be reborn. It is a dangerous tool, but still just a tool. Like any other.”

in front of Cadsuane, Merise, Sarene, Erian, and Beldeine – "all of those in the camp who weren’t either dead or incapacitated" – and Sorilea and other Wise Ones, who have been in communication with Egwene. It's possible the Tower knows this now.

[Sharaman]

No sign anywhere in the books that she has been mind-trapped. So this is pure conjecture.

 

Which is pretty much why I stated that flatly in my opening post.

 

Two great failures at least puts her on par with Lanfear and Moghedien in terms of the Dark One's naughty list--so here's the wild conjecture part--what if Mesaana was bound by cour'souvra before Egwene broke her? Just to remind you what a cour'souvra can do if broken...

 

I also stated that I was "just kicking around some random thoughts"

 

... so yes... what does this comment achieve?

 

No way to prove or disprove it - not a falsifiable statement. Could be a nice plot-line perhaps.

It's never stated in canon that a broken mind-trapped channeler can be made to channel like an automaton/ never stated that (s)he can't be made to channel.

If Brandon/ RJ wants to use it as a possibility, he can; if not, it would remain a question mark (unless he/ Maria flat out state it can't be done).

One possible argument I can see against it, is that Moridin is male assuming he's the mindtrap holder - he may not be able to use a saidar channeler. Then again, he can (perhaps) "imbue" her with TP and use those weaves. Or maybe he can link.

Another possible argument against is that Messi is apparently mind-broken by Egwene's force of will, not by a crushed mind-trap.

Would a crushing of the hypothetical mind-trap have any effect on somebody whose mind has already been broken by other means?