Sealing the bore

[lamnep]

I've just finish re-reading the series and am wondering if anyone has considered this:

 

• 
   
  
• In Lord of Chaos Rand is told that due to the nature of the wheel and the pattern then at some point in the future the bore will end up sealed, not patched, sealed as though by the creator.
  
• In one of the latter novels, I can't remember which so I will stay vague in case it is from Towers of Midnight, Nynaeve is having a bit of a peak into rands mind and sees something which she does not recognize, I think it was described as being white or something to that effect.
  
• In one of the other novels, I cannot remember which although I think it is in the last half of the series somewhere there is a line which says something like "Rand snapped" and he proceeds to use some power which is not saidin.
  

 

From this I began wondering whether, if the bore eventually needs to be sealed as though it was never made, and Rand has something innately "good" within him and Rand is able to use some power which is not saidin, and I don't think is the True Power as this comes from the dark one, is it not possible that Rand may end up being able to act almost as proxy to the creator in remaking the bore as it once was?

 

Just a thought, sorry if anything here has already been discussed, but I was wondering anyone had an opinion on this?

[Feral]

The second bullet point is concerning ToM, the third TGS. And I think it's pretty much certain that it was the True Power Rand tapped into, not something we haven't seen yet.

[Darian]

If Rand has to patch it, I doubt he has any idea how, which calls to reason why Lanfear is still alive, who I believe would come back to the light and help Rand as she is the only one that knows anything about drilling into the bore; maybe it's just a mirrored image weave of the drilling weave or something of that nature. Oddly, she has a 50/50 chance in finding the darkone's energy and the creator's energy and she manages to stumble upon the dark one's. also, as for the veins of gold in Rand's head, they are probably the opposite of the true source, the creator's source? although I thought that was the one power.

[lamnep]

See that's what confused me, I find it hard to believe that the power that rand tapped into was the True Power seeing as that comes from the dark one and the forsaken need the permission of the dark one to use it, also there has been no mention of Rand having any saa. Thus I figured that it seems likely that it will be that power that he uses to patch the bore considering that when Lews Therin tried it with saidin it tainted it and if that power is something else, especially if it is something more powerful than saidin then perhaps it can avoid being tainted and seal the bore as it was rather than patch it.

 

I'm just having a hard time figuring out what it means in this section:

 

"What? Yes, exactly the point. It can't be the Last Battle. Even if the Dragon Reborn seals the Dark One's prison again as well as the Creator made it. Which I don't think he can do." He leaned forward and lowered his voice conspiratorially. "He isn't the Creator, you know, whatever they say in the streets. Still, it has to be sealed up again by somebody, The Wheel, you see."

"I don't see...." Rand trailed off.

"Yes, you do. You'd make a good student." Snatching his pipe out. Herid drew a circle in the air with the stem. "The Wheel of Time. Ages come and go and come again as the Wheel turns. All the catechism." Suddenly he stabbed a point on the imaginary wheel. "Here the Dark One's prison is whole. Here, they drilled a hole in it, and sealed it up again." He moved the bit if the pipe along the arc he had drawn. "Here we are. The seals weakening, but that doesn't matter, of course." This pipestem completed the circle. "When the Wheel turns back to here, back to where they drilled the hold in the first place, the Dark One's prison has to be whole again."

"Why? Maybe the next time they'll drill through the patch. Maybe that's how they could do it the last time--drill into what the Creator made, I mean--maybe they drilled the bore through a patch and we just don't know."

Herid shook his head. For a moment he stared at the pipe, once more realizing it was unlit, and Rand thought he might have the recall him again, but instead Herid blinked and went on. "Someone had to make it sometime. For the first time, that is, Unless you think the Creator made the Dark One's prison with a hole and patch to begin." His eyebrows waggled at the suggestion. "No, it was whole in the beginning, and I think it will be whole again when the Third Age comes once more.

 

 

To me that implies that the bore will need to be sealed completely rather than just patched, and considering that Rand has some alternate power it seems likely that that is the power which he will use to do this. Unless of course he just blast the dark one with balefire so strong he takes the bore back to before it was made.........

[Barid Bel Medar]

See that's what confused me, I find it hard to believe that the power that rand tapped into was the True Power seeing as that comes from the dark one and the forsaken need the permission of the dark one to use it, also there has been no mention of Rand having any saa. Thus I figured that it seems likely that it will be that power that he uses to patch the bore considering that when Lews Therin tried it with saidin it tainted it and if that power is something else, especially if it is something more powerful than saidin then perhaps it can avoid being tainted and seal the bore as it was rather than patch it.

 

A few points.

 

Rand accessed the TP (DO's power) in tGS. It has been confirmed. The debate is how he gained acceess. From his connection to Moridin, who has access to the TP, or permission from the DO. I think a mixture of both. THe DO allowed Rand to access it via Moridin (becausse i think you need to go to SH to get access otherwise, although not certain on this) But he DID access the TP to break free from the domination band.

 

2. Re-tainting is unlikely to occur. I doubt that will be a problem. He would have to do it exactly the same as LTT for it to be tainted. I think he can do it with saidar/saidin without the taint. It isnt an automatic taint thing. The timing and situation have to be precise for the DO to taint the soruce.

 

Wotmania/Dragonmount Q&A - 9 December 2002

 

Q: Is there a reason the Dark One could not or would not re-taint saidin?

 

RJ: The conditions would have to be exactly right. Those conditions were set up while the seals were being placed on the Bore. The chances that exactly those conditions would occur again are fairly small. And that is saying that it was a volitional act rather than a side-effect of trying to stop the seals from being placed. After all, if the Dark One could taint saidin at will, why could he not taint saidar as well, and why would he not have done so?

[Sulley Junior]

Just a thought...I am up late working tonight and I am listening to TGS. Lews Therin is talking and states that they used Saidin and it was tied to the dark one. Lews Therin states something needs to be tied to the Dark One. My theory is the True Power will be used and it will be the Dark One's own power holding him in. I too believe Lanfear will come back to the "light" side and lend a hand somehow. Man/men & woman/women will both be chaneling to lock up the Dark One. Also, after channeling the True Power Rand did not see the Saa. (spelling?)

[Jon Paul]

What if the Bore is being kept open by the original weaves used by Lanfear and Beidomon to drill it in the first place? "Clearing away the rubble" might not mean simply removing the Seal but the weaves of the Bore its self as well. As said in the Prologue of tEoTW, they had tried to match the Creator themselves. By removing the weaves of the Bore, of course assuming the Bore is a weave, the Prison its self might heal and only require Rand to contain the Dark One until it can completely heal.

[lamnep]

just another thought: if something needs to be tied to the dark one would it be possible that fain could do it? if shadar logoth was something which clearly works against the dark one, or at least doesn't support it, and fain hates the dark one and is "infected" by that evil would it not be possible to use fain? thus avoiding having to touch the dark one with anything that could be further tainted?

[Barid Bel Medar]

1. NO, the bore cant be sealed by the DO's power. Its a stupid concept, he IS the TP. He controls who accesses it and how much they access. If they even thought about sealing him with his own power he would jsut take it off them. As for the link with Moridin. He would just take the power away from MOridin. There is no way its going to happen realistically.

 

2. I like the idea of "clearing the rubble" meaning the actual bore weave. Somehow I think the DO was ripping it slowbuffely larger. I am pretty sure that the bore was larger thann it was originally. The DO slowly worked his way free, thats why it took 100 years for peopole to realizes the danger. (Sorrry, im most likely wrong, this is off the top of my head). Anyway, I like the idea.

 

3. Fain being the buffer is alright aswell. SL is opposed to the DO's power, it would make things interesting without harming anyone.

 

Still, I am not a fan of the 'need something to touch the DO' bit. I think that LTT just got the timing/placing a bit off which caused the backlash. The power of Saidin and the dexterity of Saidar can do it just fine.

[Jon Paul]

2. I like the idea of "clearing the rubble" meaning the actual bore weave. Somehow I think the DO was ripping it slowbuffely larger. I am pretty sure that the bore was larger thann it was originally. The DO slowly worked his way free, thats why it took 100 years for peopole to realizes the danger. (Sorrry, im most likely wrong, this is off the top of my head). Anyway, I like the idea.

 

It could be like, once the Dark One has two fingers through, he wont need the weaves to keep the Prison open. From there he can brake his Prison himself or some such .

[Roach]

This is just a toss of the dice.....

 

Remember Rands fight with Solomon, when they went to the dead/cursed city. Where Fain became something else. There was a man that helped Rand, but then they both shot Balefire at the tenacles, that were going to consume them, but hit each others balefire as well. Is it possible that person was Mordin and that balefire somehow connected them?

 

Like I have said, this is just a shot in the dark as to how Rand is able to access TP.

[Barid Bel Medar]

This is just a toss of the dice.....

 

Remember Rands fight with Solomon, when they went to the dead/cursed city. Where Fain became something else. There was a man that helped Rand, but then they both shot Balefire at the tenacles, that were going to consume them, but hit each others balefire as well. Is it possible that person was Mordin and that balefire somehow connected them?

 

Like I have said, this is just a shot in the dark as to how Rand is able to access TP.

 

1. Sammael not Solomon

 

2. Yes, it was Moridin, its been pretty well known for a long time. Sorry if you are new to the books or whatnot, but yeahh, it is now pretty much a no brainer

 

3. Many have speculated this aswell. It is not totally impossible, but I doubt it. The DO can give and take the TP like a light switch. Even if Rand began to use the TP through Moridin, the DO would immediately know and cut moridins access. At least, thats how I see it, there may be some wild circumstance that prevents this. Also, the TP is the essance of the DO, it basically is the DO. So how could it be used as a buffer? Saidin/saidar would be touching the TP, so by that logic, touching the DO still.

 

I think of the TP as the DO's hand. Say that the DO is "poisonous" to saidin and saidar, if it touches the DO, it gets poisoned (tainted) So even though Rand tries to use the TP as the buffer, they are still touching the DO's hand, which is poisonous. Thus, tainting still.

 

I think that Rand will either use Fain as the buffer. Or actually use HIS BODY, as the buffer. "His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul". He sacrifices himself by making himself vunerable to the DO (via Callandor, which makes you vunerable to the taint, by extention the DO) uses himself as the buffer between the One Power and the DO and dies.

[Mr Ares]

See that's what confused me, I find it hard to believe that the power that rand tapped into was the True Power seeing as that comes from the dark one and the forsaken need the permission of the dark one to use it, also there has been no mention of Rand having any saa.

The saa do not appear after a single use of the TP.

[Roach]

Thanks for the info.

 

It has been a while since i read that battle with Sammel! So thanks for informing me.