Talmanes is Demandred! (Soylent Green is people!)

[didymos]

He later said it was because he could sense his power.

 

Nope: Logain can see ta'veren. Rand looked like a blinding beacon, and he laughed because it was a "Man, they thought I was trouble. That dude is gonna blow their minds" thing. Also, men can't insta-measure one another's strength the way women can. They can only get an idea of how much saidin another guy is holding, and then only if that guy is very nearby.

[Jblaylock]

He later said it was because he could sense his power.

 

Nope: Logain can see ta'veren. Rand looked like a blinding beacon, and he laughed because it was a "Man, they thought I was trouble. That dude is gonna blow their minds" thing. Also, men can't insta-measure one another's strength the way women can. They can only get an idea of how much saidin another guy is holding, and then only if that guy is very nearby.

 

I still think that could just have been his cover story.

[GYLD]

Demandred was still sealed in the bore, along with all the other Forsaken excluding Aginor, Balthamel, and Ishamael at the time Logain and Rand saw each other in Caemlyn.

[Jblaylock]

Demandred was still sealed in the bore, along with all the other Forsaken excluding Aginor, Balthamel, and Ishamael at the time Logain and Rand saw each other in Caemlyn.

 

 

Where's the proof of that? Just because they had yet to attack Rand, doesn't mean they weren't free yet. Unless it says so somewhere and it is just slipping my mind, which is possible.

 

It obviously would have taken some time to establish their rules over Illian, Tear, Caemlyn, etc etc, which was already done by DR (the third book) at the latest. For all we know they could have been freed at the same time, right? Unless I'm missing something.

 

Maybe it took a minute for Sammy to decide on Illian, or Be'lal to pick tear, or for Rhavin to decide on seducing Morghase. I doubt they all went straight for those destinations immidiatly once freed. They are arrogant bastards, and would have assumed they were powerful enough to take their time in picking and choosing where to take over, without any threat. I say they were all free by the beginning of the Eye of the World, and took some time deciding where they wanted to work their mischief.

[Naffy]

Demandred was still sealed in the bore, along with all the other Forsaken excluding Aginor, Balthamel, and Ishamael at the time Logain and Rand saw each other in Caemlyn.

 

 

Where's the proof of that? Just because they had yet to attack Rand, doesn't mean they weren't free yet. Unless it says so somewhere and it is just slipping my mind, which is possible.

 

It obviously would have taken some time to establish their rules over Illian, Tear, Caemlyn, etc etc, which was already done by DR (the third book) at the latest. For all we know they could have been freed at the same time, right? Unless I'm missing something.

 

Maybe it took a minute for Sammy to decide on Illian, or Be'lal to pick tear, or for Rhavin to decide on seducing Morghase. I doubt they all went straight for those destinations immidiatly once freed. They are arrogant bastards, and would have assumed they were powerful enough to take their time in picking and choosing where to take over, without any threat. I say they were all free by the beginning of the Eye of the World, and took some time deciding where they wanted to work their mischief.

I've always assumed that the rest of the forsaken broke out once the Eye of the World was used up and the seal inside broke. TGH was a long book in Randland time (especially with the portal stone thingy) and the beginning of TDR was also long. I assume that this was the time during which the Forsaken set themselves up.

[didymos]

He later said it was because he could sense his power.

 

Nope: Logain can see ta'veren. Rand looked like a blinding beacon, and he laughed because it was a "Man, they thought I was trouble. That dude is gonna blow their minds" thing. Also, men can't insta-measure one another's strength the way women can. They can only get an idea of how much saidin another guy is holding, and then only if that guy is very nearby.

 

I still think that could just have been his cover story.

 

He could also have just been making it up because he was kinda bored at the time too. Problem is, we've no evidence for either, so the simplest explanation is that he can see ta'veren because it matches the descriptions of what other people who can see ta'veren see when they've looked at one, and he looked at Rand...who is a ta'veren (and yes: he could have read about that ta'veren glowy thing. But, you know...evidence. There isn't any). Also, I don't see how that's a "cover story". Cover for what? It's not like he needs to explain what he was laughing about. No one really cares. At best, they might be mildly curious, and that's assuming they even remember him doing it.

[Jblaylock]

He later said it was because he could sense his power.

 

Nope: Logain can see ta'veren. Rand looked like a blinding beacon, and he laughed because it was a "Man, they thought I was trouble. That dude is gonna blow their minds" thing. Also, men can't insta-measure one another's strength the way women can. They can only get an idea of how much saidin another guy is holding, and then only if that guy is very nearby.

 

I still think that could just have been his cover story.

 

He could also have just been making it up because he was kinda bored at the time too. Problem is, we've no evidence for either, so the simplest explanation is that he can see ta'veren because it matches the descriptions of what other people who can see ta'veren see when they've looked at one, and he looked at Rand...who is a ta'veren (and yes: he could have read about that ta'veren glowy thing. But, you know...evidence. There isn't any). Also, I don't see how that's a "cover story". Cover for what? It's not like he needs to explain what he was laughing about. No one really cares. At best, they might be mildly curious, and that's assuming they even remember him doing it.

 

 

Good point(s)

[jdbond]

Logain was stilled. That's proof enough. Can you imagine Demandred allowing that to happen. Just for some wild plan. Besides, Logain and Rand have met many times. I don't think Demandred will take that kind of chance.

 

 

RJ claimed that we didn't see Dem's alter-ego till KOD (or even tGS). Logain was in first book!

[GYLD]

Where's the proof of that? Just because they had yet to attack Rand, doesn't mean they weren't free yet. Unless it says so somewhere and it is just slipping my mind, which is possible.

 

It obviously would have taken some time to establish their rules over Illian, Tear, Caemlyn, etc etc, which was already done by DR (the third book) at the latest. For all we know they could have been freed at the same time, right? Unless I'm missing something.

 

You are indeed missing something and the proof is in the appearance of Aginor and Balthamel. They were sealed at the very surface of the bore and as a result they were not bound as tightly as the other Forsaken and the two were able to watch three thousand years of history go by. Unfortunately though, they were not put in a stasis of sorts like the other Forsaken which is why their bodies were ravaged in EotW. It was being at the surface of the bore that allowed them to escape their prison earlier than the rest, excluding the partially sealed Ishamael.

 

If the other Forsaken had escaped at the same time it would mean they were also sealed at the surface of the bore and they would have ravaged bodies as well, which is clearly not the case.

[Val Mickey]

Yes, and Logain was ravaging the countryside before tEotW. Also Logain was stilled, throughout Books 2 - 7. Demandred was running around pulling strings and fostering chaos during that time.

 

And even if he's pulling a double act, Logain's Healing should prove that Logain was severed, while Demandred was clearly channeling during that period. And not the TP, since he has no saa. Demandred's always been wary of using the TP, as he recollects while meeting the Nae'blis.

 

 

Not to mention being under guard all that time with an Accepted watching him, much less staying with Siuan all the way from Tar Valon to Salidar - why would he put up with it?