North East South West - the problem

[Lambada]

"The North and the East must be as one. The South and the West must be as one.".

Rand, and most people here, believe that the North and East refer to lands allied with Rand, whilst the South and West refer to lands conquered by the Seanchan.

 

BUT, it doesn't fit with how the lands are at the moment.

 

Given how the lands are bound by that prophecy, the only division that matters is a division that goes roughly from the NW to the SE.

 

One problem with this though is Ghealdan - it is surrounded by Seanchan, yet is held by Rand (if indirectly). No matter where you draw the line Ghealdan will have to become Seanchan controlled for the prophecy to make sense.

 

Another problem is Illian and Tear. They are arguably in the South and so should become Seanchan controlled If the Altara-Andor border holds then that line will have to go above Tear and Illian meaning they become Seanchan. The only line I can find that keeps Tear and Illian in Rand's camp whilst making sense is one that assumes that Seanchan take Arad Doman, and don't advance too far into Altara.

 

 

The final problem I can find is Andor. We know that Andor really only 'exists' in any meaningful sense of the word immediately around Caemlyn. But it is highly likely, given the division line that the west of Andor (including Two Rivers) will become Seanchan controlled. In the worst case Whitebridge will also go over to Seanchan. The only line I can find to stop Andor being taken at all assumes Almoth Plain remains unconquered, and that Tear and Illian become Seanchan.

 

So basically in summary, I believe that there is still a lot of land to be taken by Seanchan before this prophecy makes much sense.

 

Oh, and here's a map showing the three lines I have considered that make much sense (Seanchan in Yellow, Rand held lands in Red.

 

 

NOTE: I drew inspiration for the map from a recent article on 13th depository, but I made my own as theirs didn't look right to me in where Andor and Cairhein were placed. In addition, their article was not concerned with this prophecy at all.

[Red Hand Man]

I doubt he meant the prophecy that literally even if Rand has the interpretation correct.

 

Also, it could be that maps drawn in the 1600 and 1700s weren't nearly as accurate as a straight line would be.  After all, the claim for the Massachusetts colony extended all the way to the Pacific Ocean from Boston and about 40 miles south and north of the city in straight lines.  So perhaps the map is just stretched.  :)

[csarmi]

They might take Arad Doman and Perrin could bring them the land under his control (Ghealdan + Two Rivers).

I don't think it has to be taken literally anyway.

[yoniy0]

We know that Andor really only 'exists' in any meaningful sense of the word immediately around Caemlyn.

That is incorrect. The Lion Throne controls most of what is formally known as Andor. Of course, the TR is excluded from that (and I don't think the mountains of mist are even part of Andor, beyond the mines). But remember Baerlon is strictly under the Queen's control.

[Shard]

The way it described the compass directions combining reminded me of the Aes Sedai Symbol. The Ying Yang of Randland combining as one.

[farthammer]

You would think that after LTT making a gigantic mountain, and followed up by major destruction of the earth during the breaking, that this may affect the planets magnetic field itself.

 

Or we are assuming that bit of prophecy only refers to Randland, the planet is larger than that.

[Red Hand Man]

You would think that after LTT making a gigantic mountain, and followed up by major destruction of the earth during the breaking, that this may affect the planets magnetic field itself.

 

Or we are assuming that bit of prophecy only refers to Randland, the planet is larger than that.

 

It was only the surface.  To truly mess up the magnetic fields you would have to really mess up the thick iron core of the planet (which I'm assume Randland has -- given the instruments the seafolk use, I believe they have a compass).  Which is beyond Rand ;)

[wipe]

I allways thought that it mainly concerned the states around the rim. So that Cairhien, Tear and the borderlands are the north and east. The west and south will be those you've allready put there + Arad Doman. The central part are not included in the profecy and are "up for grabs" or not important how are distributed between the forces. As an analog from our world: On all the continents you've got central states that are a fifth placing if you wish, i.e. the central european states. IMO it is not correct to just draw a line and say that everything NE of here must be Rands and SW must be Seanchan. Analog again form Europe: NE would be: Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finnland, Russia, Romania, Bulgaria (and maybe Greece- though that could also be south- depending on where you've conquered). SW would be: Portugal, Spain, Italy (maybe Ireland, UK, Iceland, greece and some of the smaller countries around there). A lot of the states are central though- gives no meaning to say that they are S, W, N or E. I.e. Germany, Poland, Czhech Rep, Slovak Rep, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, (maybe UK and France) are Central republics...

[Zargan]

Perhaps it makes more sense if not taken so literally.  It's fairly safe to say that the lands to the North and East are fairly well united under Rand.  Sure the borderlanders don't know it yet, but I have a hard time thinking that they won't just fall into line, espically with Lan up North helping to "lead the charge" so to speak.  So if we consider the "East" to be the Aiel and the North to be the Borderlands, we're good so far.

 

The West and the South is a bit trickier.  Rand does control elements of the "South" and the Seanchan definately control part of the "West".  But maybe that's a bad way of looking at it.  Consider that the Seanchan came from the West, from across the ocean.  So if we assume that's the "West" meant by the prophecy, then we need to figure out how the "South" comes together.  I could easily see Elayne as being the "ruler" of the southern lands.  All we need then is some sort of truce between Elayne and the Seanchan and we can consider them "united".  So now we have the "North and East" as one, and the "South and West as one".  Great.

 

But the final words of the prophecy are: "The two must be as one.  If you would live, you must die.".

 

OK, how can the two be as one?  The simple answer is a marriage between Rand and Elayne.  That would cement the two together and form a nice solid Alliance.  As to the last part "if you would live, you must die" at a best guess would be some type of willing self sacrifice.  To be willing in his heart of hearts to lay down his life, probably to save his (unborn) children Elayne is carrying, could be enough to tip some sort of balance in his favor.

[Wolfsister]

The full answer was  to Rand's question on how to win the last battle was "The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

This is not a very specific answer. Yes it gives general guideline, but it is not specifying full geographies. I went through this same exercise last year and in the end decided, that like the prophecy of the blind beggar, it can't be taken literarily.

 

This prophecy refers to the general divisions of Randland conflict zones. In ToM we may see more battles between the armies of Rand and the Seanchan (some territories may shift between the two), but it won't mean much in the grand scheme of things.  The north is in general the boarderlands and the West are the territories controlled by the Seanchan. The East are Andor and Cairhien (and whatever is in between); while the south is Tear and Illian area.

 

The eand result is that Ran needs to unit the areas through some negotiated truce.