Healing death Imposible?

[MikeRiley]

I don't believe death will be Healed. Just because it's said often enough that something can't happen doesn't mean it will. We still have yet to see birds teaching a fish to fly.

 

It's not even a matter of it being possible. Anything is possible if you know what you're doing. To be honest, I think if Nynaeve tried to Heal death she would cause some big disaster. Look at how she handled Logain. She was tired and she randomly threw weaves at his brain. She didn't come to some logical conclusion and then try it out. The odds of that happening again successfully would require her to have multiple ta'veren around and probably be one herself.

 

Birgitte's death wasn't technically Healed. Her original body is long gone and she's a special case anyway since she was residing in TAR at the time. I can see Nynaeve entering TAR to locate Rand, him stepping out of nowhere and they talk about the idea and he shakes his head and says no - he's dead and he's moved on.

[Shadow Rider]

Otherwise I thought it was common knowledge since RJ clarified that Rand was a Hero of the Horn, that if he died in the real world he could be called back with the horn like all the other heroes?

 

Exactly....there is no reason to believe that Lan will not become a hero of the horn an every reason to believe that he will become a hero of the horn. Lans entire life has been dedicated to fighting the Shadow.

 

I think if Nynaeve tried to Heal death she would cause some big disaster.

 

The point is she saw it done, so she knows it's possible through TAR, if Lan dies in the Battle at Tarwins Gap, Nyneve would tare TAR apart looking for him.....Mmmmm could be a disaster....

[farthammer]

Man I wasn't ready to connect that to Lan because it requires like a half dozen completely unsubstantiated theories to make that happen.  The horn would probably explode trying to make room for him.

[Shadow Rider]

As Hawkwing commented to Hurin in tGH that he too may one day become a hero of the horn.

[farthammer]

Yeah but Lan is the man alone, you don't take someone who is alone, and then stuff him into a crowded musical instrument

[MikeRiley]

Hawkwing was putting Hurin at ease with a bit of flattery. If every brave person who fought for what they believe in (like Lan) became a Hero then a good portion of the world would be made up of them.

 

I'm not saying Lan won't become a Hero of the Horn, just that it's doubtful. As noble and story-worthy as his life is he still has not done anything to make himself a real Hero above and beyond what warders do as a part of their daily life. In TG there will be countless stories told of heroic deeds done by as many different people.

 

Nynaeve knows a person can be ripped out of TAR and she knows it'll just about kill them. The warder bond didn't save Birgitte because it was some magical property that ensured life. Elayne bonded Birgitte because the warder bond gives increased stamina and "every bit helps". Birgitte just needed that little bit more strength to pull through. It was still up in the air whether she would live or die after the bonding. It's also unlikely that she could see what was done to rip Birgitte out of TAR, I'm pretty sure she was too afraid to channel and could not see any flows as a result.

[Shadow Rider]

Hawkwing was putting Hurin at ease with a bit of flattery. If every brave person who fought for what they believe in (like Lan) became a Hero then a good portion of the world would be made up of them.

 

I'm not saying Lan won't become a Hero of the Horn, just that it's doubtful. As noble and story-worthy as his life is he still has not done anything to make himself a real Hero above and beyond what warders do as a part of their daily life. In TG there will be countless stories told of heroic deeds done by as many different people.

 

Nynaeve knows a person can be ripped out of TAR and she knows it'll just about kill them. The warder bond didn't save Birgitte because it was some magical property that ensured life. Elayne bonded Birgitte because the warder bond gives increased stamina and "every bit helps". Birgitte just needed that little bit more strength to pull through. It was still up in the air whether she would live or die after the bonding. It's also unlikely that she could see what was done to rip Birgitte out of TAR, I'm pretty sure she was too afraid to channel and could not see any flows as a result.

 

What makes you think that Lan is not already tied to the horn, and even if he is not tied to the horn, Lan, has dedicated his life to fighting the Shadow, in the cradle was the sword of the Kings of Makier placed in his infant hands, is he not a hero?

I don't think Hawkwing was putting Hurin on.

 

We still have yet to see birds teaching a fish to fly.

 

Ever herd of flying fish?

[farthammer]

Well why aren't the other million people or so that lost their lives against shadowspawn defending their borderlands not in the Horn?  Why not stick the entire universe in the Horn except for the great dork of the dark?  DO I MAKE YOU HORNY DO I

[Bob T Dwarf]

Rand being "reborn" ala Birgitte is certainly one way of fulfilling the "To live you must die." prediction.  I've been advocating that for nearly two years now.  There may be others, but I can't think of what they might be.  Nynaeve did witness how Birgitte was cast out, and would know how to do so.  If that's how it ends up being done, 'The Dragon' would most likely reappear looking like LTT, with a whole and complete body.

 

Slayer killing Heroes in T'a'R?  Maybe, but I think it's more likely that is part of what Moggy and Cyndane have been up to.  They are the ones who both claim T'a'R as their domain.  We already know that Moggy knows the 'cast the soul out into the living world' trick, and that without intervention on the living side the one cast out would die.  If Moggy knows the trick, it's likely Cyndane does, as well.  The sword Justice turning up unexpectedly argues that something is going on with the Heroes that we haven't seen yet.  It may also be that the Wheel is spinning them out as fast as it can ala Gaidal Cain in order to preserve them from whatever the Shadow is trying to do to eliminate them.  If the Shadow isn't doing anything to eliminate them, then Jordan and Sanderson are missing a great plot twist.

 

If the Horn sounds again ( and I think it will ) it will be interesting to see who if anybody shows up.

[mossman87]

Nah he'd show up as Rand, not LTT.  Last incarnation.

[Shadow Rider]

Aviendha & Elayne were reborn as 1st sisters, literally reborn, this could hold even more answers to the riddle.

 

@farthammer I did get a little rise, I think. :P

[MikeRiley]

There is nothing in the series that suggests Heroes are being slain in TAR. They are set apart from the rest of the TAR beings. They aren't just walking around there in the flesh. Birgitte was targeted by Moghedien because she made her presence known and visible so she could be targeted.

 

Also, again, I don't believe Nynaeve would even attempt this trick on Rand in TAR. It nearly killed Birgitte and it's not some magical "if you bond him he lives" thing. The warder bond saved Birgitte only because it loaned her a bit more stamina with which or body was able to recover. It was still touch and go and she could have died anyway. Nynaeve would not put Rand through that, nor would he settle for it after his death. He likely would not even make himself known to her in TAR.

[Barid Bel Medar]

There is nothing in the series that suggests Heroes are being slain in TAR. They are set apart from the rest of the TAR beings. They aren't just walking around there in the flesh. Birgitte was targeted by Moghedien because she made her presence known and visible so she could be targeted.

 

Also, again, I don't believe Nynaeve would even attempt this trick on Rand in TAR. It nearly killed Birgitte and it's not some magical "if you bond him he lives" thing. The warder bond saved Birgitte only because it loaned her a bit more stamina with which or body was able to recover. It was still touch and go and she could have died anyway. Nynaeve would not put Rand through that, nor would he settle for it after his death. He likely would not even make himself known to her in TAR.

 

Theres only one thing wrong with this (unless your suggesting he dies AFTER defeating the DO, in that case, Ill agree with you)

 

However, if Rand dies and needs to come back, I dont think he or Nynaeve would have any hesitation doing it.

 

Its risky, but whats the alternative, the DO wins and unravels the Pattern, everyone is dead then, so it would be worth the risk

[MikeRiley]

Its risky, but whats the alternative,

 

Blowing the Horn of Valere when the time comes.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Its risky, but whats the alternative,

 

Blowing the Horn of Valere when the time comes.

 

Checkmate. hahaha.

 

Good point, and it is perfectly plausable.

 

However, I was posting under the impression Rand actually had to be alive, I mean, the HotH are limited in a lot of ways (Hawkwing isnt Taveren and such) and i just thought that Rand would need his Taverenness and suchlike.

 

However, there is nothing to actually suggest that, so he could well do it as a HotH

[MikeRiley]

Yeah, there's a lot of theories on Rand's being resurrected and his own "To live you must die" answer does imply something more than a ghostly presence for the duration of the Last Battle.

 

Given how loose the beggar bit was, I can see him understanding "To live you must die" as if he fights the Dark One so that he can live again in another life. In Veins of Gold it's suggested he fights to give Ilyena that chance to live again. We'll see. I'd like to see him come to the Horn's call anyway. There's been a build up on Rand surviving the battle somehow - especially with Tam's talk with him in The Gathering Storm, it might just be making his eventual fall that much harder.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, there's a lot of theories on Rand's being resurrected and his own "To live you must die" answer does imply something more than a ghostly presence for the duration of the Last Battle.

 

Given how loose the beggar bit was, I can see him understanding "To live you must die" as if he fights the Dark One so that he can live again in another life. In Veins of Gold it's suggested he fights to give Ilyena that chance to live again. We'll see. I'd like to see him come to the Horn's call anyway. There's been a build up on Rand surviving the battle somehow - especially with Tam's talk with him in The Gathering Storm, it might just be making his eventual fall that much harder.

 

Exactly my thoughts. the same with the Lion Sword, Dedicated Spear, she who sees beyond. ON a boat with the man who is dead yet lives" fortelling, some people have suggested that this prophesised Rands death, but i interpret it the same as the "standing on his own grave", the "he who is dead yet lives" I took it as Rand is alive, but he also has the memories and such of LTT (who is dead) so he has died as LTT, but still lives.