Aes Sedai hirerachy

[Taura-Tierno]

We know that Aes Sedai hierarchy is governed by 3 things, in a specific order: Strength in the One Power, age, time spent as accepted and novice. If someone's stronger than you, you have to defer or obey, depending on difference in strength. It also seems that many posts are (often) held på those strong in the Power. I.e. Galina was strong and was Ajah Head. Pevara, Yukiri, Saerin, Romanda, Lelaine all are/have been Sitters, and are notably strong. Merean, Siliviana and Sheriam were strong, and were Mistress of Novices. On so on.

 

So what I was thinking about is, how do Aes Sedai treat weaker Sisters, who have accomplished much? Say that we have a Gray who's weak, and somehow ended up as advisor to a regent. She does a fanstatic job and prevents wars and unites nations and lots of stuff. That gives her prestige, and so she's given other assignments, and does lots of great things. Or Red who single-handedly manages to capture a strong False Dragon through cunning and intelligence rather than her weak strength. Or whatever heroish scenario you can imagine. How would other Aes Sedai treat her? I assume that she might be treated very well or be given high ranking inside the Ajah, since she's probably given the Ajah lots of status. But in everyday life ...

 

Power is number 1, but we also hear from time to time that the pecking order is complex ... so could great achievements override that hierarchy? Or would it be more like, people would listen to her much more than another of her strength, and probably take her advise in her areas of expertise because she's really proven herself, but when the decision has to be made, the stronger Aes Sedai still decides? As in, difference between respect and rank (which is kind of odd, but still).

 

 

[mb]

Some of how sisters treat each other can be found in New Spring.

I also recall some passage in Gathering Storm also talking about that; but telling the scene would be a spoiler.  (This section does not yet allow Gathering Storm spoilers.)

 

[Nightstrike]

So what I was thinking about is, how do Aes Sedai treat weaker Sisters, who have accomplished much?

I've gotten the impression that they weren't treated with much greater respect than others of the same strength.

 

Or Red who single-handedly manages to capture a strong False Dragon through cunning and intelligence rather than her weak strength.

I think they would have needed to be more than 1 weak sister to shield a strong false Dragon. Standard seems to have been 13 to shield a false Dragon, whether they needed to or not. The praxis was also to have 6 Aes Sedai maintaining the Shield. They were to use their full strength while doing so.

 

Or whatever heroish scenario you can imagine. How would other Aes Sedai treat her? I assume that she might be treated very well or be given high ranking inside the Ajah, since she's probably given the Ajah lots of status. But in everyday life ...

I don't think they used to honor her accordingly. Too bad, really.

 

Usually 5 to 10 years as a novice, and 5 to 10 years as an Accepted. Strong ones usually spend less than that, and weak ones usually more than that.

 

 

[Leatherleaf]

To my understanding, the Hierarchy stands through most situations UNLESS an Aes Sedai has been appointed for a period of time to head a group of Sisters, such as an embassy. An embassy's leader becomes as though she is higher in the power than the other sisters, while the embassy stands at least. Usually though, an embassy's leader is more likely to have much experience, such as settled many wars, drawn up many treaties, gentled male channelers, etc. Therefore, an Aes Sedai lesser in the power, but with a highly accomplished resume, may be given more opportunities to be a leader. Also, many Sitters, Keepers, and even Amyrlin have not been chosen based on their strength in the one power, but rather, on their merits and accomplishments; in these cases, they have much more influence and power than stronger Sisters (unless the stronger Sister is a Sitter herself).

[CUBAREY]

We know that Aes Sedai hierarchy is governed by 3 things, in a specific order: Strength in the One Power, age, time spent as accepted and novice. If someone's stronger than you, you have to defer or obey, depending on difference in strength. It also seems that many posts are (often) held på those strong in the Power. I.e. Galina was strong and was Ajah Head. Pevara, Yukiri, Saerin, Romanda, Lelaine all are/have been Sitters, and are notably strong. Merean, Siliviana and Sheriam were strong, and were Mistress of Novices. On so on.

 

 

One correction its not the age of a sister is her time as a full sister that matters.

 

Also offical positions require a certain amount of (AT least) offical deference such as all sisters deferring to the Amerilyn, Ajah Heads and Sitters no matter their relative strength in the power. OF course gaining offical position has much to do with relative power but ooter factors can and often do go into it.

[Taura-Tierno]

So what I was thinking about is, how do Aes Sedai treat weaker Sisters, who have accomplished much?

I've gotten the impression that they weren't treated with much greater respect than others of the same strength.

 

Actually, I don't think we've seen any weak Sisters who have accomplished much, especially not in standard Aes Sedai everyday life. Not that I can remember, anyway, so do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Or Red who single-handedly manages to capture a strong False Dragon through cunning and intelligence rather than her weak strength.

I think they would have needed to be more than 1 weak sister to shield a strong false Dragon. Standard seems to have been 13 to shield a false Dragon, whether they needed to or not. The praxis was also to have 6 Aes Sedai maintaining the Shield. They were to use their full strength while doing so.

 

Yes, but then there are those legendary tales mentioned about Aes Sedai who have done remarkable things, like a Green who brought a false dragon to the Tower all by herself, etc. In the case of the false dragon, I'm not saying that 1 weak sister is the best way to go. But if that one weak sisters did manage it - somehow - it would be an extraordinary accomplishment, especially considering her weak strength.

 

Or whatever heroish scenario you can imagine. How would other Aes Sedai treat her? I assume that she might be treated very well or be given high ranking inside the Ajah, since she's probably given the Ajah lots of status. But in everyday life ...

I don't think they used to honor her accordingly. Too bad, really.

 

I think that, given the chance, someone of of higher rank would try to take the credit. Definitely. But since certain positions seem to, at occasion, be filled with those weak in Power, or that weaker persons can be given control of embassies, that should not always be possible. If so, then a person weak in the OP would never attain a high office?

 

Usually 5 to 10 years as a novice, and 5 to 10 years as an Accepted. Strong ones usually spend less than that, and weak ones usually more than that.

 

Actually, weren't Moiraine, Siuan and Elaida the fastest ever (or at least in living memory), with 3 years as novice and 3 as accepted? Which to me seems to indicate that the Aes Sedai have lowered their standard, slightly, at least during such troubled times?

 

Does it really say anywhere that stronger girls learn quicker? I definitely believe that weaker girls - especially if they're really weak, would be slower learners, since they'd have trouble with weaves, but in terms of those who are quicker, isn't it more likely those who spark by themselves? Since they have the One Power innately. And I believe it's stated at various times that being stronger isn't the same thing as being better with weaves.

[Nightstrike]

Actually, I don't think we've seen any weak Sisters who have accomplished much, especially not in standard Aes Sedai everyday life. Not that I can remember, anyway, so do correct me if I'm wrong.

No, maybe we haven't seen them accomplish much(?).

 

If so, then a person weak in the OP would never attain a high office?

I think those weaker than average strength were very rare in the high positions. At least before Egwene as Amyrlin.

 

Actually, weren't Moiraine, Siuan and Elaida the fastest ever (or at least in living memory), with 3 years as novice and 3 as accepted? Which to me seems to indicate that the Aes Sedai have lowered their standard, slightly, at least during such troubled times?

Yeah, they were unusually quick to earn the shawl. I don't think they earned it because of lowered standards, though that's just my opinion.

 

Does it really say anywhere that stronger girls learn quicker? I definitely believe that weaker girls - especially if they're really weak, would be slower learners, since they'd have trouble with weaves, but in terms of those who are quicker, isn't it more likely those who spark by themselves? Since they have the One Power innately. And I believe it's stated at various times that being stronger isn't the same thing as being better with weaves.

I don't know if it's remarked upon. But Eggy & the rest seem to have been extremely fast on picking up new things. I also believe the really strong ones reach their potential faster.

 

 

[Nightstrike]

I searched for mentionings of age.

 

RJ's blog:

For mmwhiterose, Siuan was raised to the Amrylin Seat so young for several reasons, most of which I have pointed out pretty clearly in the books, I think.  The preceding years had seen a number of Amrylins die after only a short time in office.  In New Spring: the Novel I showed one reason why the pool of potential Amrylins, Aes Sedai with experience, was reduced over part of that same period.  And then there was the impasse over several candidates, none of whom could gain enough support, so that Siuan became a compromise candidate who was raised in part because various Sitters thought they could influence or control such a young Amrylin.  Just as it is unusual for a sister to be raised to Sitter before she had worn the shawl for a hundred years, it is unusual for a sister to be raised to the Amyrlin Seat short of having worn the shawl for a hundred and fifty to two hundred years, and above two hundred years is most common.

 

ACoS, 8:

"Siuan had only been raised Amyrlin because the three before her each had died after just a few years on the Amyrlin Seat. The Hall had wanted someone young. ...Rarely was anyone chosen Sitter before she had worn the shawl seventy or eighty years at least, and Amyrlins generally longer. ...So when the Hall deadlocked between four sisters raised Aes Sedai less than fifty years before, and Seaine Herimon of the White suggested a woman who had worn the shawl only ten years, it might have been as much exhaustion as Siuan’s qualifications in administration that brought the Sitters to stand for her."

"Qualifications in administration". So I guess they did value something other than age and strength(?). I thought it was just her strength.

 

 

 

 

[Taura-Tierno]

Yeah, that's the kind of thing I was getting at. If they consider such skills important, surely they must consider more remarkable feats worthy of respect?

 

Of course, I realize that weak Sisters probably don't accomplish much, since they are looked down upon. But I'd reckon that, sometimes, there's bound to be exceptions.