Why the Green Ajah bugs me

[Leatherleaf]

First, let's recap the roles that the other Ajahs have been fulfilling for the past hundreds of years:

Red - Gentling dangerous men and battling their followers (if they proclaimed themselves Dragon)

Blue - Righting many wrongs, a broad list, but Blues are active

Yellow - Well, the Yellow does seem to be a bit lazy, but they seem to be around in wars to Heal, as well as just lend a Healing hand while travelling abouts

White - Discussing logic, which logically is illogical to do in an illogical world, but at least they're happy

Grey - Advising rulers, mediating, stopping wars, etc.

Brown - Learning, assisting other Aes Sedai who need knowledge, actually quite a useful Ajah for all the clouds they reside their heads in

Black - Quite possibly the most active Ajah of all

 

And then there's the Green. The Green Ajah gets on my nerves a lot of times. For being the BATTLE AJAH, they sure don't seem to do much battling. Granted, the 3 oaths screw them over, and I suppose some (namely, Cadsuane) do go off and do a little battling every so often. But you'd think as an Ajah dedicated to the LB, they would do little except study battle formations, create tactics that wouldn't hinder them as much due to the 3 oaths, and learn weaves that would be good in battle! Furthermore, they should practice by sending groups of Green sisters to the Borderlands to fight the Blight. What better way to prepare for the LB? Because really, other than the Aiel war and a couple others, the White Tower can't really choose sides in a war that Tar Valon isn't involved in, therefore the Green Ajah has been nearly useless for hundreds of years, when they could have been more helpful than almost any other Ajah.Think, if the Green had outposts throughout the Borderlands, they could have aided Malkieri, and saved many lives as well.

 

For that matter, the Yellow Ajah would do well to work closely with the Greens. They would do very well to make plans for battle formations and camps, teaching each other Healing and fighting weaves.

 

Yes, the so-called Aes Sedai have done a good job of bungling things up for centuries if not millennia now, but the Green have been the least active. They seem to help out as a last resort, maybe backing up a Red who's struggling against an army and a false Dragon, maybe blasting a Darkfriend who decided to attack her warder AFTER killing an entire family (I'm making situations up now, but it's fitting with this rant :)). Sure the Red Ajah is going to become obsolete due to the Cleansing (yes, they'll find a new 'thing' besides man-hating :p) but the Green has retarded what it should be for far too long. Grumble...

[ed2funy]

Until recently...the LB was something far off.

 

The Greys could have been working to unite everyone.

The Blues could have helped with their politicking.

The Reds could have taken a new stance on the DR.

The White should have figured this out long ago.

 

:P

[Eht Slat Meit]

Yes, the so-called Aes Sedai have done a good job of bungling things up for centuries if not millennia now, but the Green have been the least active. They seem to help out as a last resort, maybe backing up a Red who's struggling against an army and a false Dragon, maybe blasting a Darkfriend who decided to attack her warder AFTER killing an entire family (I'm making situations up now, but it's fitting with this rant :)). Sure the Red Ajah is going to become obsolete due to the Cleansing (yes, they'll find a new 'thing' besides man-hating :p) but the Green has retarded what it should be for far too long. Grumble...

 

As far as the Red goes, they've still got function, to interact with the Black Tower, simply in a different way than before. From an ideallist standpoint, however, they'd be better served looking after their own, particularly with the White Tower being opened to every single female channeler.

 

To the Green, I like to think they've not been completely useless and that they've been doing at least some training with the Sheinarians at the Blight. There's only a little bit to suggest that they have, and that's disappointing as it relegates them to a ceremonial role.

[OptimusPrime]

But how often do the Green Ajah go to the Borderlands and fight the Blight?

[Impressive Bosom]

I find myself in agreement though I've never really thought about it before... I would like to have seen SOMETHING to suggest that the Greens were in fact the 'Battle Ajah' in something but name only. Throughout the books its basically meant that you could have multiple warders, but that's it.

 

I agree that there should have been examples of them fighting in the Blight, even if just a passing mention made of how the once-common practice had been banned when Aes Sedai numbers grew too few. Or discussion of special weaves the Green Ajah had developed that made other Aes sedai shudder to imagine being used. Even the teaching of defensive weaves during the Wonder girls training in the Tower or even some sort of concerted effort on thier part in very recent events that must go unmentioned here!

 

A wealth of possibilities and opportunities missed IMO.

[Taura-Tierno]

I doubt the Green Ajah are working to create battle weaves. When Siuan learns what Egwene, Nynaeve and Elayne learned from the encounters with the Seanchan, I believe she says that she'll see that they unlearn those things. Which always bugged me, since those fighting weaves would have been a wonderful preparation for the Last Battle.

 

So yes, I agree. I would like to have seen some mention of the Green fighting shadowspawn more often than every thousand years or so. Or that they were off fighting evil in other forms. You know, eradicating darkfriends and hunting criminals, or that kind of thing.

[Myyrth]

That's the one thing about Aes Sedai that always confused me, for an order dedicated to the One Power and the preservation of knowledge they strangely lack any experimental or creative function.

 

In other fantasy settings Wizards (AS equivalent) are always experimenting and expanding their knowledge.  I see research in the OP to be the same as any hard science we have in our own society.  The OP is essentially this worlds technology.  There seems to be no desire to return to the grandeur of the age of legends.

 

Sure they are a hidebound tradition, but their order has become so complacent and stagnant that it's laughable to imagine them being ready to fight at TG.

 

White - Discussing logic, which logically is illogical to do in an illogical world, but at least they're happy

 

the above doesn't make much sense to me, there is nothing illogical about the WoT.  It may be a fantastic and marvelous setting but the OP follows logical rules the same as anything.  Just because magic doesn't exist in our world doesn't mean it's not "logical" The OP is a very logical thing.

[OptimusPrime]

Well I must have to agree about the Whites. Exactly what do they do? I mean, its not as if most Aes Sedai dont act in ways they think are logical, and logic changes in extreme situations anyway. When you have two illogical choices but no other you reason them out as best you can. Why would they have an entire faction devoted to acting without emotions influencing if theres nothing they are assigned to specifically? Green is for battle-understandable. Brown is for research and knowledge-very understandable. White is for logic... what the hell? Dont Greens do what they do in battle that feels logical? Thats called battle tactics. Exactly what do the White Ajah apply their emotionless logic to? Im sure Ive probably missed something obvious about this as there have been plenty of books with a lot of Aes Sedai involvement but... I just dont know what the White Ajah does.

 

I agree about Greens. I sometimes think that TGH would have been a good place to show Green Aes Sedai. Even if they only got passing notice, a comment here or there from Moiraine or Lan or maybe Thom could have easily created a firmer image of the Battle Ajah instead of just the Green. Then again, a big thing about the White Tower is that it is deeply flawed even despite the splitting. Egos are way too important to everyone, theyre almost always concerned about appearances before anything else, even between themselves, and personal gain is also a common motive that overrides important stuff.

 

They are almost laughable sometimes, its true, but I think that is the point from the middle of the series onwards, about a lot of things. Appearances and reality being different.

[Eht Slat Meit]

But how often do the Green Ajah go to the Borderlands and fight the Blight?

 

Unfortunately, we've no idea because RJ never went into it. We can extrapolate from what we've read, but doing so requires heavy speculation. Examples:

 

1. We know that there are "affiliate" sisters who never spend time in the Tower, that are currently waiting for the WT schism to resolve. Some of them fled, more simply were away from the Tower as is natural to their positions in other countries. However, this can be any Ajah, not necessarily Green. This would extend to the Borderlands of course, and

2. We know that there are sisters with the Borderland armies, but again we don't know for sure that any of them are Green. It should follow naturally, since you have to be hard to survive in Borderlands, but... the Tower is not what it was.

 

[Dreamwalker]

Well I must have to agree about the Whites. Exactly what do they do? I mean, its not as if most Aes Sedai dont act in ways they think are logical, and logic changes in extreme situations anyway. When you have two illogical choices but no other you reason them out as best you can. Why would they have an entire faction devoted to acting without emotions influencing if theres nothing they are assigned to specifically? Green is for battle-understandable. Brown is for research and knowledge-very understandable. White is for logic... what the hell? Dont Greens do what they do in battle that feels logical? Thats called battle tactics. Exactly what do the White Ajah apply their emotionless logic to? Im sure Ive probably missed something obvious about this as there have been plenty of books with a lot of Aes Sedai involvement but... I just dont know what the White Ajah does.

 

I agree about Greens. I sometimes think that TGH would have been a good place to show Green Aes Sedai. Even if they only got passing notice, a comment here or there from Moiraine or Lan or maybe Thom could have easily created a firmer image of the Battle Ajah instead of just the Green. Then again, a big thing about the White Tower is that it is deeply flawed even despite the splitting. Egos are way too important to everyone, theyre almost always concerned about appearances before anything else, even between themselves, and personal gain is also a common motive that overrides important stuff.

 

They are almost laughable sometimes, its true, but I think that is the point from the middle of the series onwards, about a lot of things. Appearances and reality being different.

 

I think too much emphasis is being put on the Whites being emotionless - that isn't their main function, it just means they don't let bias influence their decisions. Logic is actually extremely useful (being an engineer, I can attest to this first hand). In designing any sort of a system, be it a system of manufacturing goods, of distributing those goods, of organizing people, or of government, you have to use logic to make careful choices so that everything runs smoothly. We also see them developing mathematics, which is a form of logic, and which has many many practical applications.

 

Further, I think you could also see them as being some sort of judicial advisors like a lawyer since you have to use logic in matters of law (different than Greys, who help make treaties, Whites would interpret laws or advise on their wording). Or acting as detectives for that matter - this is why when Elaida wanted someone to do some investigating she asked a White to do it (even though that White started investigating the BA not dirt on Alviarin). You need deductive reasoning to solve mysteries, and that's what Whites do.

 

As for the Greens, I always had the impression that they did help in the Borderlands, or anywhere Shadowspawn show up. At the least I'm pretty sure they were essential during the Trolloc wars. In recent years, I will admit, they probably have gotten a bit rusty but I don't think not having seen any special weaves of theirs counts for much as we haven't seen any special weaves for most other Ajahs either.

[OptimusPrime]

 

I think too much emphasis is being put on the Whites being emotionless - that isn't their main function, it just means they don't let bias influence their decisions. Logic is actually extremely useful (being an engineer, I can attest to this first hand). In designing any sort of a system, be it a system of manufacturing goods, of distributing those goods, of organizing people, or of government, you have to use logic to make careful choices so that everything runs smoothly. We also see them developing mathematics, which is a form of logic, and which has many many practical applications.

 

Further, I think you could also see them as being some sort of judicial advisors like a lawyer since you have to use logic in matters of law (different than Greys, who help make treaties, Whites would interpret laws or advise on their wording). Or acting as detectives for that matter - this is why when Elaida wanted someone to do some investigating she asked a White to do it (even though that White started investigating the BA not dirt on Alviarin). You need deductive reasoning to solve mysteries, and that's what Whites do.

 

See I think it would be good if there were mentions of this kind of thing, or equivalents etc, but I cant remember seeing any in the books being linked to the Whites.

 

P.S. Next time Rand goes to the university, there should be Brown Sisters there.

[Taura-Tierno]

Well I must have to agree about the Whites. Exactly what do they do? I mean, its not as if most Aes Sedai dont act in ways they think are logical, and logic changes in extreme situations anyway. When you have two illogical choices but no other you reason them out as best you can. Why would they have an entire faction devoted to acting without emotions influencing if theres nothing they are assigned to specifically? Green is for battle-understandable. Brown is for research and knowledge-very understandable. White is for logic... what the hell? Dont Greens do what they do in battle that feels logical? Thats called battle tactics. Exactly what do the White Ajah apply their emotionless logic to? Im sure Ive probably missed something obvious about this as there have been plenty of books with a lot of Aes Sedai involvement but... I just dont know what the White Ajah does.

 

I agree about Greens. I sometimes think that TGH would have been a good place to show Green Aes Sedai. Even if they only got passing notice, a comment here or there from Moiraine or Lan or maybe Thom could have easily created a firmer image of the Battle Ajah instead of just the Green. Then again, a big thing about the White Tower is that it is deeply flawed even despite the splitting. Egos are way too important to everyone, theyre almost always concerned about appearances before anything else, even between themselves, and personal gain is also a common motive that overrides important stuff.

 

They are almost laughable sometimes, its true, but I think that is the point from the middle of the series onwards, about a lot of things. Appearances and reality being different.

 

I think too much emphasis is being put on the Whites being emotionless - that isn't their main function, it just means they don't let bias influence their decisions. Logic is actually extremely useful (being an engineer, I can attest to this first hand). In designing any sort of a system, be it a system of manufacturing goods, of distributing those goods, of organizing people, or of government, you have to use logic to make careful choices so that everything runs smoothly. We also see them developing mathematics, which is a form of logic, and which has many many practical applications.

 

Further, I think you could also see them as being some sort of judicial advisors like a lawyer since you have to use logic in matters of law (different than Greys, who help make treaties, Whites would interpret laws or advise on their wording). Or acting as detectives for that matter - this is why when Elaida wanted someone to do some investigating she asked a White to do it (even though that White started investigating the BA not dirt on Alviarin). You need deductive reasoning to solve mysteries, and that's what Whites do.

 

As for the Greens, I always had the impression that they did help in the Borderlands, or anywhere Shadowspawn show up. At the least I'm pretty sure they were essential during the Trolloc wars. In recent years, I will admit, they probably have gotten a bit rusty but I don't think not having seen any special weaves of theirs counts for much as we haven't seen any special weaves for most other Ajahs either.

 

I agree about the Whites. I've always considered them to be scentiest, kind of. I mean, if they had physicists, the Whites would be those. Mathematics and different kinds of advanced calculations probably aren't that meaningful in Randland, not to most people anyway, but it's definitely not useless. And just like you said, I could imagine Whites being trusted with tasks like investigations. And wouldn't they be helpful in terms of planning battles and stuff? I mean, logic and strategy go well together, don't they?

 

That said, the White Ajah probably don't do that much good, compared to the rest (which is probably why it's the smallest), but there has to be room for people who want distance from emotions and want to see things scientifically.

[Leatherleaf]

That's the one thing about Aes Sedai that always confused me, for an order dedicated to the One Power and the preservation of knowledge they strangely lack any experimental or creative function.

 

In other fantasy settings Wizards (AS equivalent) are always experimenting and expanding their knowledge.  I see research in the OP to be the same as any hard science we have in our own society.  The OP is essentially this worlds technology.  There seems to be no desire to return to the grandeur of the age of legends.

 

Sure they are a hidebound tradition, but their order has become so complacent and stagnant that it's laughable to imagine them being ready to fight at TG.

 

White - Discussing logic, which logically is illogical to do in an illogical world, but at least they're happy

 

the above doesn't make much sense to me, there is nothing illogical about the WoT.  It may be a fantastic and marvelous setting but the OP follows logical rules the same as anything.  Just because magic doesn't exist in our world doesn't mean it's not "logical" The OP is a very logical thing.

 

Sorry, I should have clarified something, I'm not stating that the WoT world is illogical, I know that the OP follows rules. What I meant was that people (not just Randlanders) often act in illogical ways.

 

Thanks Dreamwalker for clarifying the White Ajah's role a bit better, they do well to interpret laws and such. On another note, I often enjoy when a chapter goes into a White's POV, they are usually quite ironically funny when they can't understand why people do things.