Alivia as Ilyena reborn...

[Eht Slat Meit]

Why? Well, we know Rand IS bound to the Horn and is a Hero.  We know from Birgitte that if two Hero's are lovers, they are continuously spun out together, and their story, as it could be said, involves the two of them together.  Their success or their failure depends on each other.

 

Question: Where is it established that Rand is bound to the Horn as a Hero?

 

I ask, because to my understanding, the Dragon is tied to the Wheel as the Dragon, not as a Hero. Otherwise, it forces the Dragon to a specific role, which doesn't make sense as it has been made clear that the Dragon can be in the future and has been a champion of Shaitan in the past.

 

first of all. The Dragon has never worked with the Dark Lord. to do so would give him ultimate victory.

Ishmael just said he had been turned before, but he's a lying liar who lies.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't part of the ongoing storyline, not to mention The Great Hunt in specific, been to make it clear that the Dragon CAN be turned, or worse win in a manner that is blacker than evil? Ish spends his time trying to convert Rand, but why waste his time if he KNOWS it can't happen? He's brilliant and the foremost of the Forsaken. Rand sees through the Portal Stones that he cannot only lose and break the world as LTT did, but be turned to acts blacker than LTT could ever have performed. Cadsuane and others are constantly musing on how hard Rand has become and implying that victory could cost more than defeat. We have Shadar Logoth as the prime example of how fanatic good can be twisted to become the other side of evil.

 

Quite frankly, everything suggests that the Dragon(s) can become a tool of the Dark One, and in this specific case, The Last Battle, that would be catastrophic.

[Majsju]

There is a difference between 'the Dragon can be turned' and 'the Dragon has been turned in the past'.

[Eht Slat Meit]

There is a difference between 'the Dragon can be turned' and 'the Dragon has been turned in the past'.

 

I don't know about that. It's showed in 'The Great Hunt' that the Dragon can (and has) failed in a thousand ways in a thousand other worlds, and there's nothing to suggest that he can't be turned here as well. In fact, I'd consider that a very strong warning signal.

 

You don't have to follow the Shadow to be of the Shadow.

[Majsju]

The difference between the Dragon failing, and the Dragon having been turned is even greater.

 

To use RJs own words when asked about Ishys claims, 'You believe Ishamael??? Sorry, man, but cmon!'

[Eht Slat Meit]

The difference between the Dragon failing, and the Dragon having been turned is even greater.

 

The difference seems negligible when dealing with someone black as or blacker than Shadow.

[ROB_88]

I don't know about that. It's showed in 'The Great Hunt' that the Dragon can (and has) failed in a thousand ways in a thousand other worlds, and there's nothing to suggest that he can't be turned here as well. In fact, I'd consider that a very strong warning signal.

 

then you probably remember that nowhere in those worlds did he ever get turned.

[MauricXe]

I support the OP :)