Draco Malfoy and Severus Snape (WARNING: spoilers!)

[Maria]

Let's talk Snape and Malfoy!

 

Does Malfoy have the Dark Mark? Is he Death Eater? His birthday is June 4th (according to JK Rowling's webpage), so technically he would have been of age at the battle of Hogwarts at the end of the book, which means that he was no longer just a junior Death Eater (if one at all) but a full-fledged one. Also, what's going to happen to Draco now? And really, is Harry's obsession with him merely platonic?? (:P)

 

And of course Snape. The guy who has me awake at night pondering his allegiances. Is he evil? Is he not? If not then you do realize that would make him a triple agent or something?

 

So, let's discuss it, and let's back it up with actual facts. And if you use a quote please say which book it is (PS/SS, CoS, PoA, GoF, OotP, HBP) and what page it is on.

 

Now, go wild!

[Maria]

I think Snape is evil. I do have some serious doubts, but all in all I think that it's easier (and I say this is the lightest sense of the word) to fool Dumbledore than Voldemort. Dumledore, after all, is a good guy, and he has the (dis?)advantage of being able to both trust someone and to love someone. It was established in HBP that Voldemort does neither. And as such he'd be a lot more suspicious of Snape than Dumbledore would be. And Dumbledore makes mistakes, he said so himself.

 

I make mistakes like the next man. In fact, being - forgive me - rather cleverer than most men, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly huge. HBP p. 187, British version.

 

But it should be said that if Snape ends up being the good guy, and that everything was a clever plot constructed by Snape and Dumbledore then I will not be very surprised. However, if Snape is a bad guy then I will be equally unsurprised.

[LadyMoraine Sedai]

I dont have actual book facts, cause its not that fresh in my mind...I always thought snape was evil until Order of the Phoenix...and Now...I just dont know. I think he was compelled to do what he did. but I also think he was happy to do it.

 

I agree with Mia..I wouldnt be surprised either way.thats one Plot JK has got written very well!

 

 

(sorry I promised to get involved, this the best I got ;) )

[Pookie]

On the issue of Malfoy, personally I don't think he has the Mark. He may be of age, but he's still fairly ineffectual and I don't think he's been fully accepted by Voldemort regardless of who his daddy is, maybe in particular because of who his daddy is. It also would be much harder for a student to hide the Mark than it is for an adult, so if Voldemort does intend to use him more, in my opinion it would be a tactical error to label him and perhaps open him up to a danger that could be avoided by simply working through Draco's daddy.

 

I am, however, far enough out from when I had a chance to do a full reading that I don't remember if there have been any new Marks added since Voldemort's return? I didn't remember that, which might also suggest that Voldemort has his own reasons for not tagging his newer subjects.

 

As far as Snape goes, I'm really at a loss. I can see how his actions can be justified as being either good or bad. I do agree Voldemort would be harder to fool, but there's also the advantage that Voldemort may be so gung-ho about having an inside agent that he may overlook his doubts about Snape if Snape is providing him with solid information from time to time (and by "solid" I mean things that can actually affect the good guys in a bad way). There is the fact that people in search of revenge are often blinded to some realities and Voldemort certainly has reason to want revenge on a number of people at Hogwarts, perhaps enough that his desire has blinded him to Snape's other alligiances. However, it's just as likely that Dumbledore et al are blinded by their desire to see the good in people, even if they are more evil than good.

 

I can see Snape going either way, which is perhaps why it is such an intriguing plot twist in the series. I'm not even sure whether I want him to be good or evil. On the one hand, if he's evil it's an incredibly sinister backstabbing for those who trusted him, but it also means Harry's instincts were right all along, something a little too pat and sugar sweet for my tastes. On the other hand, if he's good, Harry gets the tart lesson about people not always being what they seem and to not judge a situation before you know all the factors, but then you have to deal with the issues of how did Voldemort not know he was being backstabbed and what the heck was with that last scene with Dumbledore?? I'm certainly interested to see how JK handles it.

[Dwynwen]

Given that Draco grew up in a Death Eater home and that I have never seen him do something charitable or good (unless my memory has gone selectively fuzzy), I am inclined to think he is a bad guy. However, you can tell from his hesitations to do the truly evil things that he harbors some fear. It will be interesting to see if that fear gets the better of him enough for him to run to the good guys.

 

I waver back and forth on Snape so much that I cannot make a decision. What I need to do is go back and read the whole series again with a fine-toothed comb and an eye on Snape's every move before I can gather enough evidence to my satisfaction.

[Maria]

One of my main points towards Snape being good is the discussion Hagrid hears between Snape and Dumbledore. He says that Snape says something along the lines of "well maybe I don't want to do it anymore" (this is paraphrased cause I don't have the book right here) and that Dumbles and Snape was really fighting. So maybe the plan was for Snape to kill Dumbledore all along, and that Snape didn't want to. And that when Dumbledore was begging Snape at the end it wasn't to not kill him, but quite the contrary.

 

Also, though, I'm confused as to why Dumbledore would give Snape the DADA job when he knew it was cursed.

[Jhaenara]

"Also, though, I'm confused as to why Dumbledore would give Snape the DADA job when he knew it was cursed."

 

So Snape would have more of a reason not to return to Hogwarts thus forcing him to go ahead with Dumbledore's request to kill him. And keep up the cover that Snape is really good (well as good as he can be :P ) so Voldie won't find out. Or something... lol. I have no idea really. And I'll join in the discussion more when I have time... just felt like trying to answer Mia's thought... lol.

[amegakure]

heres the facts snapes EVIL he killed dumbledor man thats god damn evil he used avade kadavea curse on him even when begged not to kill him malfoy is a fool whimp who thinks just cause his dads a death eater that hes all that but in the end he dont got the guts to finish off a too trusting man whos probaly gona die in the first place so hes a totall coward and the thing with his silent slash thing thats just tortur but in all this sad stuff we can all look back to when james potter siruis black opened up a can of woop ass on him all the time

[Maria]

See, that's where I disagree with you. On the Snape thing, that is, because you didn't use any punctuation (PLEASE use punctuation or I will whimper and cry and tear my hair out) and so the whole thing sort of went into one.

 

But I disagree with you on your ideas about Snape. This man is so unbelievably layered, and Jo has really really left this issue open, and so there are many things that speak towards Snape *not* being an idiot. Actually, let me rephrase that. There are many things that speak towards Snape not being a follower of Voldemort. He always has been an idiot, that's just in his personality :P

 

Are you sure that's what Dumbledore begged of him? Maybe it was something completely different. I sure don't know how Jo Rowling works. She has outsmarted me about 87 times and she will continue with that for a long long time.

[amegakure]

dumbledor said snape please help me and if snape dosent follow voldemort why is he helping draco out with his tasks for voldemort and if he isnt he is still evil

[Maria]

Actually he didn't say "please help me", he said "Severus, please", and that leaves a lot more room than it would've had he said please help me, and as such my position stil stands. =)